Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[BikeBikeBIke]

vaud said:

TTmonkey said:

China doesn’t invade with tanks and missiles. It uses new roads, bridges, railways, and other infrastructure projects, backed by cheap yet un repayable loans.

A bit more appealing than Russian tactics.

Exactly. They will "build partnerships" with the stans and Siberia in exchange for access to materials, etc

And from memory, the Stans can pipe their gas without going through Russia. The only thing stopping them was fear of Russian invasion if they tried. Guess what - that fear has diminished.

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Sunday 26th March 16:44

[sisu]

RichFN2 said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

pablo said:

aeropilot said:

China's Xi didn't wait long after getting back from Moscow to start sticking the knife in

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-central-asia...

Is it wrong to read this as discussions with Russia didnt go the way Russia wanted?

How did I miss this? Thanks Aeropilot.

Someone on here was predicting a few weeks back that China wanted closer ties with the ex Soviet central Asian countries. As an long term plan to completely bypass Russia from memory.

It could of been Sisu

Yes my mate Boris is in Rostov on Don explained that there are people waiting it out in Turkey, UAE, Georgia, etc who are looking which way the money is going, what is keeping Russians who have the means to not get recruited is the fear is that the Kremlin will issue war bonds weather you like them or not, meaning your own money in your account is then owned by the Kremlin or that the only way a company can pay its workers is by buying bonds, there by giving control to the state of your own company. But China is already offering credit for projects and security companies before Xmas by paying in ¥ so people can use credit cards with Chinese accounts. Boris called it his AmeXi card.
By offering money that the Kremlin can't touch, you are left with a powerless Kremlin in this part of the country as people know that Moscow will quite happily shred them long before anyone from St Petersburg will be asked.

It looks like Kazakhstan and the others are looking to China not just for financial projects, but also a nod to China providing military equipment should Russia try another Ukraine, buying Chinese tanks or other material for defence makes sense. They took back the Space programme last week from Russia.

[KAgantua]

sisu said:

RichFN2 said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

pablo said:

aeropilot said:

China's Xi didn't wait long after getting back from Moscow to start sticking the knife in

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-central-asia...

Is it wrong to read this as discussions with Russia didnt go the way Russia wanted?

How did I miss this? Thanks Aeropilot.

Someone on here was predicting a few weeks back that China wanted closer ties with the ex Soviet central Asian countries. As an long term plan to completely bypass Russia from memory.

It could of been Sisu

Yes my mate Boris is in Rostov on Don explained that there are people waiting it out in Turkey, UAE, Georgia, etc who are looking which way the money is going, what is keeping Russians who have the means to not get recruited is the fear is that the Kremlin will issue war bonds weather you like them or not, meaning your own money in your account is then owned by the Kremlin or that the only way a company can pay its workers is by buying bonds, there by giving control to the state of your own company. But China is already offering credit for projects and security companies before Xmas by paying in ¥ so people can use credit cards with Chinese accounts. Boris called it his AmeXi card.
By offering money that the Kremlin can't touch, you are left with a powerless Kremlin in this part of the country as people know that Moscow will quite happily shred them long before anyone from St Petersburg will be asked.

It looks like Kazakhstan and the others are looking to China not just for financial projects, but also a nod to China providing military equipment should Russia try another Ukraine, buying Chinese tanks or other material for defence makes sense. They took back the Space programme last week from Russia.

Totally. Its crazy. Im no expert on Kazahkstan, but they always seemed pretty OK with Russia. then out of the blue, a few weeks ago, Putin threatened to nuke them.

To nuke them!!

This is why Russia does not have any friends. It can quite legitimately say 'the world is against us' - to me if feels more like Russia is against the world!

[GT03ROB]

KAgantua said:

sisu said:

RichFN2 said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

pablo said:

aeropilot said:

China's Xi didn't wait long after getting back from Moscow to start sticking the knife in

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-central-asia...

Is it wrong to read this as discussions with Russia didnt go the way Russia wanted?

How did I miss this? Thanks Aeropilot.

Someone on here was predicting a few weeks back that China wanted closer ties with the ex Soviet central Asian countries. As an long term plan to completely bypass Russia from memory.

It could of been Sisu

It looks like Kazakhstan and the others are looking to China not just for financial projects, but also a nod to China providing military equipment should Russia try another Ukraine, buying Chinese tanks or other material for defence makes sense. They took back the Space programme last week from Russia.

Totally. Its crazy. Im no expert on Kazahkstan, but they always seemed pretty OK with Russia. then out of the blue, a few weeks ago, Putin threatened to nuke them.

I'm no expert on Kazkh either, but I have been here for the last 5 years!

There is no love for mother Russia from the Kazakh people & the Chinese are not trusted. They have a poor reputation here.

The old President Nazabayev took the country away from Russia post independence, building very good relations with the west especially the US & UK. With his choice of Uk officials being Blair & Prince Andrew you can see what he was playing!. British & American companies got very good access to the primary resources here.

As Nazabayevs rule lenghtened the corruption became more evident & the wealth became more concentrated in a few at the expense of the many. Nazabayev drifted back towards Moscow for his personal security as well of that of his clique. This suited Moscow who had seen a neighbour drift away. As Nazabayev looked to transition out of power a few years ago he annointed Tokayev as his puppet. Tokayev is a career diplomat & Nazabayev expected him to be docile. Tokayev has proved to not be that, dennouncing the old ways & looking at ways to move Kazakhstan forward.

In addition to oil & gas this place is rich in rare earth minerals, traditional minerals, uranium, together with being perfect for green energy. There is currently a beauty contest going on for influence here amongst nations. In the last few months we've had Ursula Von der Leyen; US secretary of State Blinken & god forbid the UKs Foreign Secretary James not-so-Cleverly all visit Tokayev & prostrate themselves.

Kazakhstan needs friends as it is weak for it's size 17m people in a country the size of western europe. It has to be judicious in how it picks them.

[Digga]

Thanks for that GT03ROB, very interesting. In terms of corruption, is Tokayev better?

[GT03ROB]

Digga said:

Thanks for that GT03ROB, very interesting. In terms of corruption, is Tokayev better?

He probably couldn't be worse than what went before!!

[Adam.]

Very interesting Rob

Slightly O/T but is K becoming more insulated from the impact of the Ukraine invasion?

(asking for a friend who has shares in a K based mining company and currently 70% down!)

[GT03ROB]

Adam. said:

Very interesting Rob

Slightly O/T but is K becoming more insulated from the impact of the Ukraine invasion?

(asking for a friend who has shares in a K based mining company and currently 70% down!)

Part of the products of the high level visits from EU & UK were supposed mineral access agreements so mining here will continue to grow.

There are currently 2 export routes : China & across the caspian to Baku then onwards through Georgia & Turkey. Oil still goes via Russia using CPCs pipeline..Roadfreight is still heavy between Kazakh & Russia and we have certainly seen no shortages of anything. If anything availability of non-Russian products is better, as these tend to make it to Russia via kazakhstan now many other routes are closed & end up dropping off the back of a lorry!.

[Adam.]

GT03ROB said:

Part of the products of the high level visits from EU & UK were supposed mineral access agreements so mining here will continue to grow.

There are currently 2 export routes : China & across the caspian to Baku then onwards through Georgia & Turkey. Oil still goes via Russia using CPCs pipeline..Roadfreight is still heavy between Kazakh & Russia and we have certainly seen no shortages of anything. If anything availability of non-Russian products is better, as these tend to make it to Russia via kazakhstan now many other routes are closed & end up dropping off the back of a lorry!.

thank you, will keep my fingers crossed for recovery then (for my friend)

[deadtom]

pinchmeimdreamin said:

How dare you !!

He stroked it gently and whispered sweet nothings ( with a big hammer )

the C-Whisperer*

* spelt phonetically due to 'CIWSperer' not making much sense and making it even more likely that my rubbish joke falls flat

[8bit]

deadtom said:

pinchmeimdreamin said:

How dare you !!

He stroked it gently and whispered sweet nothings ( with a big hammer )

the C-Whisperer*

* spelt phonetically due to 'CIWSperer' not making much sense and making it even more likely that my rubbish joke falls flat

Gets a from me!

[AlexIT]

According to Der Spiegel, 18 Leopard 2 from Germany arrived in Ukraine.
In the meantime also 40 Marders have been deployed there.

https://archive.is/uPd1e

[Puggit]

One of the articles that Putin and Xi agreed and signed last week was not to move nuclear weapons in to other states. Putin has promptly broken that agreement by moving tactical nukes in to Belarus.

China has spoken... https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/164037310823...

[eharding]

8bit said:

deadtom said:

pinchmeimdreamin said:

How dare you !!

He stroked it gently and whispered sweet nothings ( with a big hammer )

the C-Whisperer*

* spelt phonetically due to 'CIWSperer' not making much sense and making it even more likely that my rubbish joke falls flat

Gets a from me!

The Sea-Wizperer would have been more appropriate......but it's a bit late now.

[deadtom]

eharding said:

The Sea-Wizperer would have been more appropriate......but it's a bit late now.

I considered that also, but figured that if I was going to simplify it, I might as well simplify it as much as possible. There was a whole thought process, more than I should probably admit to, but my job is desperately boring and this is what I end up thinking about.

Edited by deadtom on Monday 27th March 16:57

[Digga]

Puggit said:

One of the articles that Putin and Xi agreed and signed last week was not to move nuclear weapons in to other states. Putin has promptly broken that agreement by moving tactical nukes in to Belarus.

China has spoken... https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/164037310823...

I know China do politics and economics very differently to Western nations, but even they must be baffled and exasperated in equal measure by the utter bullsttery and stupidity of Russia. WTF is the actual point of sitting down to any sort of talks with barefaced and utterly unashamed liars?

[8bit]

Digga said:

Puggit said:

One of the articles that Putin and Xi agreed and signed last week was not to move nuclear weapons in to other states. Putin has promptly broken that agreement by moving tactical nukes in to Belarus.

China has spoken... https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/164037310823...

I know China do politics and economics very differently to Western nations, but even they must be baffled and exasperated in equal measure by the utter bullsttery and stupidity of Russia. WTF is the actual point of sitting down to any sort of talks with barefaced and utterly unashamed liars?

Presumably because China can manipulate Russia to suit their own ends more and more the longer this goes on and the weaker Russia gets. They'll also be painting themselves as the stable, more secure option to trade with to nations which formerly aligned with Russia.

[Register1]

sisu said:

RichFN2 said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

pablo said:

aeropilot said:

China's Xi didn't wait long after getting back from Moscow to start sticking the knife in

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-central-asia...

Is it wrong to read this as discussions with Russia didnt go the way Russia wanted?

How did I miss this? Thanks Aeropilot.

Someone on here was predicting a few weeks back that China wanted closer ties with the ex Soviet central Asian countries. As an long term plan to completely bypass Russia from memory.

It could of been Sisu

Yes my mate Boris is in Rostov on Don explained that there are people waiting it out in Turkey, UAE, Georgia, etc who are looking which way the money is going, what is keeping Russians who have the means to not get recruited is the fear is that the Kremlin will issue war bonds weather you like them or not, meaning your own money in your account is then owned by the Kremlin or that the only way a company can pay its workers is by buying bonds, there by giving control to the state of your own company. But China is already offering credit for projects and security companies before Xmas by paying in ¥ so people can use credit cards with Chinese accounts. Boris called it his AmeXi card.
By offering money that the Kremlin can't touch, you are left with a powerless Kremlin in this part of the country as people know that Moscow will quite happily shred them long before anyone from St Petersburg will be asked.

It looks like Kazakhstan and the others are looking to China not just for financial projects, but also a nod to China providing military equipment should Russia try another Ukraine, buying Chinese tanks or other material for defence makes sense.

They took back the Space programme last week from Russia.

but also a nod to China providing military equipment should Russia try another Ukraine, buying Chinese tanks or other material for defence makes sense.

Can you just imagine the tank building capability of China if they so wanted, not that they would,
OMG

[deadtom]

8bit said:

Presumably because China can manipulate Russia to suit their own ends more and more the longer this goes on and the weaker Russia gets. They'll also be painting themselves as the stable, more secure option to trade with to nations which formerly aligned with Russia.

It does seem a bit like this; China has enough international respectability to still be taken seriously by the rest of the world, but carries enough of an aura of 'do not fk with us or we will fk you in ways of which the UN would not approve' that they don't expect Russia to quite so blatantly take the piss with them as they do with everyone else.
Xi seems to be good at striking the balance well enough to get what he needs from both sides, at least thus far.

[8bit]

deadtom said:

8bit said:

Presumably because China can manipulate Russia to suit their own ends more and more the longer this goes on and the weaker Russia gets. They'll also be painting themselves as the stable, more secure option to trade with to nations which formerly aligned with Russia.

It does seem a bit like this; China has enough international respectability to still be taken seriously by the rest of the world, but carries enough of an aura of 'do not fk with us or we will fk you in ways of which the UN would not approve' that they don't expect Russia to quite so blatantly take the piss with them as they do with everyone else.
Xi seems to be good at striking the balance well enough to get what he needs from both sides, at least thus far.

I was going to say it's a bit like the Kray twins; China is the brains of the duo and Russia is the psychopath keeping everyone in line through fear. Somewhat flawed analogy though as China are using Russia for their own gain at the expense of Russia, it would seem.