Met police institutionally racist, misogynistic, homophobic
Discussion
ATG said:
86 said:
smn159 said:
86 said:
Khan should resign it’s on his watch
https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/ma...
Surprised but not really surprised that you think that Khan bears the most responsibility for this. Can only assume that you have an agenda to push unless you're read the report and concluded - yep, that's all Khans fault - in which case you appear to have comprehension issues.https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/ma...
Edited by 86 on Tuesday 21st March 12:46
Trying to blame any mayor or PCC for the deeply ingrained cultural problems of an org like the Met is pretty silly. Having direct interference from a politician into a police force's mgmt would rightly set of alarm bells. They should be appointing chief constables or the equiv and then giving them a fair crack at addressing the org's problems.
Having an independent, outsider's assessment is a hell of a lot better than having Khan dancing round shouting "you're institutionally misogynistic"; you can imagine how well that would have gone down with people like yourself even if it was true.
XCP said:
it sounds to me like the Met haven't progressed much since the 60's/70's.
Indeed - and this from todays reportDefensiveness and denial: The Met does not easily accept criticism nor ‘own’ its
failures. It does not embrace or learn from its mistakes. Instead, it starts from a
position that nothing wrong has occurred. It looks for, and latches onto, small flaws in
any criticism, only accepting reluctantly that any wrong-doing has occurred after
incontrovertible evidence has been produced.
ATG said:
86 said:
ATG said:
86 said:
So why is Mayor Khan still in a job. He has overseen this mess.
Not sure if serious?And to respond to your edit, it didn't happen on his watch. It has ALWAYS been this way. What society considers acceptable/tolerable has changed over the decades and some significant areas of the Met have failed to keep up.
Edited by ATG on Tuesday 21st March 12:54
272BHP said:
smn159 said:
Bulls
t.
I work for a large organisation, and I can assure you that no-one gets pissed on or is sexually abused in the showers, is made to eat until they puke or has their beard forcibly shaved off.
Other transgressions are available and will also be deemed racist, homophobic and misogynistic.t.I work for a large organisation, and I can assure you that no-one gets pissed on or is sexually abused in the showers, is made to eat until they puke or has their beard forcibly shaved off.
Do you not believe the findings?
Bigends said:
Indeed - and this from todays report
Defensiveness and denial: The Met does not easily accept criticism nor ‘own’ its
failures. It does not embrace or learn from its mistakes. Instead, it starts from a
position that nothing wrong has occurred. It looks for, and latches onto, small flaws in
any criticism, only accepting reluctantly that any wrong-doing has occurred after
incontrovertible evidence has been produced.
Sounds like several people on this thread.Defensiveness and denial: The Met does not easily accept criticism nor ‘own’ its
failures. It does not embrace or learn from its mistakes. Instead, it starts from a
position that nothing wrong has occurred. It looks for, and latches onto, small flaws in
any criticism, only accepting reluctantly that any wrong-doing has occurred after
incontrovertible evidence has been produced.
The Met needs restructuring in some way. Merely putting another face at the top will change nothing.
I worked in a London force in the 70s and 80s, and worked with the Mets on a number of jobs. Individually, I found them helpful, hardworking, focused, brave in the main and certainly no more racist than the public at large (not that that is a high standard). Homophobia was rife. It became tedious after a time.
In-force sexism was another problem, although there were specific, and temporary, reasons for that. Legislation amalgamated the female and male sections in the 70s. Women were trained in specialist roles, and the vast majority were superb at them. Present a job and they'd grab it, resolve it, and leave your name in the report. (CID take note.) All of a sudden, they were dumped on division and most, quite naturally, struggled. They were still required to be specialists, but also to be first responders. Cruel. It took a while for them to shed this image of bewilderment.
Go forward 15 years and on the shift I ran, out of the 'top' four PCs, two were female, despite the fact women made up a little over 25% of the shift. No one messed with my female officers. Sexist comments were slapped down by other male PCs. But that force was a county one. I worked Brighton, and no officer could work there for a few shifts without realising gays and straights were indistinguishable.
My county force had some racist officers, although it was mild in practice as the area was mainly white. Just comments in the main.
I do not recognise my force, nor Kent, where I worked for a while, in the report. The behaviour would have been slapped down at the very least, and probably by other PCs as well.
The Met needs a radical reform. The police service as a whole needs change, but for the Met, it needs restructuring. A large force is difficult to manage. My county for was 3,000 (pre-Cameron and May scything) and was at the practical limit. A new CC could make a difference, although it would take time. The Mets would swallow up any reformer. Change has to come from the Home Office. But it is difficult, so it won't. I have no idea what could be a much better model, only that it is an urgent requirement.
It will hurt results, but then, I can't see it being anything but better than the current level.
My civvy office manager in one job was extremely attractive and, although she dressed soberly, she couldn't hide it. I walked into an outside company and was shocked to see the blokes, high-ups in the company, overtly looking her up and down as she walked to her seat. It would not have happened so blatantly back at the nick. I asked her if I could have a word with the senior bloke there, and she said no. They were to be her new employers. If I knew her, they wouldn't do it once she was working there.
The report makes sober reading. I tend to doubt most official reports, due to personal experience of some that were way, way off. However, there's too much here to ignore, or to refute. There must be change, and fundamental change at that. And quickly.
I worked in a London force in the 70s and 80s, and worked with the Mets on a number of jobs. Individually, I found them helpful, hardworking, focused, brave in the main and certainly no more racist than the public at large (not that that is a high standard). Homophobia was rife. It became tedious after a time.
In-force sexism was another problem, although there were specific, and temporary, reasons for that. Legislation amalgamated the female and male sections in the 70s. Women were trained in specialist roles, and the vast majority were superb at them. Present a job and they'd grab it, resolve it, and leave your name in the report. (CID take note.) All of a sudden, they were dumped on division and most, quite naturally, struggled. They were still required to be specialists, but also to be first responders. Cruel. It took a while for them to shed this image of bewilderment.
Go forward 15 years and on the shift I ran, out of the 'top' four PCs, two were female, despite the fact women made up a little over 25% of the shift. No one messed with my female officers. Sexist comments were slapped down by other male PCs. But that force was a county one. I worked Brighton, and no officer could work there for a few shifts without realising gays and straights were indistinguishable.
My county force had some racist officers, although it was mild in practice as the area was mainly white. Just comments in the main.
I do not recognise my force, nor Kent, where I worked for a while, in the report. The behaviour would have been slapped down at the very least, and probably by other PCs as well.
The Met needs a radical reform. The police service as a whole needs change, but for the Met, it needs restructuring. A large force is difficult to manage. My county for was 3,000 (pre-Cameron and May scything) and was at the practical limit. A new CC could make a difference, although it would take time. The Mets would swallow up any reformer. Change has to come from the Home Office. But it is difficult, so it won't. I have no idea what could be a much better model, only that it is an urgent requirement.
It will hurt results, but then, I can't see it being anything but better than the current level.
My civvy office manager in one job was extremely attractive and, although she dressed soberly, she couldn't hide it. I walked into an outside company and was shocked to see the blokes, high-ups in the company, overtly looking her up and down as she walked to her seat. It would not have happened so blatantly back at the nick. I asked her if I could have a word with the senior bloke there, and she said no. They were to be her new employers. If I knew her, they wouldn't do it once she was working there.
The report makes sober reading. I tend to doubt most official reports, due to personal experience of some that were way, way off. However, there's too much here to ignore, or to refute. There must be change, and fundamental change at that. And quickly.
Bigends said:
XCP said:
it sounds to me like the Met haven't progressed much since the 60's/70's.
Indeed - and this from todays reportDefensiveness and denial: The Met does not easily accept criticism nor ‘own’ its
failures. It does not embrace or learn from its mistakes. Instead, it starts from a
position that nothing wrong has occurred. It looks for, and latches onto, small flaws in
any criticism, only accepting reluctantly that any wrong-doing has occurred after
incontrovertible evidence has been produced.
Devon & Cornwall let Sawyer retire as Chief Constable before the Keyham inquest, so nobody will be taking responsibility now for that. No doubt "lessons will be learned" though.
Biggy Stardust said:
How do you reconcile your oh-so superior recollections of your behaviour with this comment a while ago?
I suspect because he was distinguishing the Kent and Brighton experience of how the teams were and where he worked; with the Met where he didn’t work. He was like the first, but not like the second. Hope that helps! Derek Smith said:
When I was a police officer, I followed the normal behaviour of other constables
Reading is quite easy, comprehension comes next…
Biggy Stardust said:
How do you reconcile your oh-so superior recollections of your behaviour with this comment a while ago?
Do you have a selection of my posts that you can hack into and produce comments out of context to emphasise your particular leanings? I mean, old son, superior? Take a look in the mirror. Derek Smith said:
When I was a police officer, I followed the normal behaviour of other constables
Derek Smith said:
Do you have a selection of my posts that you can hack into and produce comments out of context to emphasise your particular leanings? I mean, old son, superior? Take a look in the mirror.
I don't have a reflection. I remember your comments condoning police corruption, however. They can be found in the Scottish car cloning thread.
I'll add that I'm not your son, although if I were I think I'd be a bit disappointed.
Edited by Biggy Stardust on Tuesday 21st March 16:20
Derek Smith said:
My county force had some racist officers, although it was mild in practice as the area was mainly white. Just comments in the main
Mild racism - is that like being mildly sexist? Or is it the kind of "mild attitude" that could lead to what happened to Sarah Everard, or a police officer shooting an unarmed black man.. because "threat"?Growing up in South London, it was pretty much accepted that as an ethnic minority that you respected the police but they could take liberties with you that probably wouldn't happen if you were white, and that it would probably be your fault it happened, and that you had to mind your language and behaviour so as not to escalate the situation.
One incident that stays with me personally is where I was was driving past Wandsworth in the late 90's/early 2000's, and was stopped as part of one of those roadside stops. The police officer didn't seem to take too kindly to me (I was polite) and as I didn't have my driving license with me, they needed to "verify who I was", and as there had been "robberies in the area by someone who looked like me", they had to take me back to the police station. I was in a cell on my own for about 4 hours till they verified who I was, and then they let me go on my way. No arrest, no explanation, no nothing, just locking me up for no good reason because the officer didn't like the look of me.
Paul Dishman said:
It's not just the Metropolitan Police, that's engrained in police culture across the country. There's nobody accountable enough to take responsibility for the mistakes-how on earth did Cressida Dick ever get to be Commissioner after her career?
Devon & Cornwall let Sawyer retire as Chief Constable before the Keyham inquest, so nobody will be taking responsibility now for that. No doubt "lessons will be learned" though.
Indeed, I was once followed home by an idiot of a British transport plod for speeding, when I pointed out the dual carriageway was a 70 limit he stood there for a few seconds like a fish out of water, blank expression and jaw moving but not speaking and then accused me of 42 in a 40 limit. I told him there was no way he could touch me for that either, few more seconds of the fish routine from him before some bDevon & Cornwall let Sawyer retire as Chief Constable before the Keyham inquest, so nobody will be taking responsibility now for that. No doubt "lessons will be learned" though.
ks about not indicating.He was unable to process the fact that he had made a mistake, he had to have the last word and made himself look even more stupid every time he tried.
If the police at the sharp end are too stupid to accept their failings and mistakes then there's no hope for the senior ranks.
Lessons won't be learned until the police gain sufficient self awareness to realise they are failing
Biggy Stardust said:
I don't have a reflection.
I remember your comments condoning police corruption, however. They can be found in the Scottish car cloning thread.
I'll add that I'm not your son, although if I were I think I'd be a bit disappointed.
Nowhere near as disappointed as Derek would be if you really were his son I remember your comments condoning police corruption, however. They can be found in the Scottish car cloning thread.
I'll add that I'm not your son, although if I were I think I'd be a bit disappointed.
Edited by Biggy Stardust on Tuesday 21st March 16:20
Tango13 said:
Paul Dishman said:
It's not just the Metropolitan Police, that's engrained in police culture across the country. There's nobody accountable enough to take responsibility for the mistakes-how on earth did Cressida Dick ever get to be Commissioner after her career?
Devon & Cornwall let Sawyer retire as Chief Constable before the Keyham inquest, so nobody will be taking responsibility now for that. No doubt "lessons will be learned" though.
Indeed, I was once followed home by an idiot of a British transport plod for speeding, when I pointed out the dual carriageway was a 70 limit he stood there for a few seconds like a fish out of water, blank expression and jaw moving but not speaking and then accused me of 42 in a 40 limit. I told him there was no way he could touch me for that either, few more seconds of the fish routine from him before some bDevon & Cornwall let Sawyer retire as Chief Constable before the Keyham inquest, so nobody will be taking responsibility now for that. No doubt "lessons will be learned" though.
ks about not indicating.He was unable to process the fact that he had made a mistake, he had to have the last word and made himself look even more stupid every time he tried.
If the police at the sharp end are too stupid to accept their failings and mistakes then there's no hope for the senior ranks.
Lessons won't be learned until the police gain sufficient self awareness to realise they are failing
BTP officer stops PHer and threatens to issue a speeding ticket
PHer replies that as he doesn't require a Super Saver Return, he'll be off and drives away
(May be apocryphal)
Biggy Stardust said:
Tango13 said:
Nowhere near as disappointed as Derek would be if you really were his son
In fairness I was expecting that from Derek; I could then point out his ability to make "Yo momma" jokes.There is no way, NO way that you came from my loins. The first thing I'm gonna do when I get home is punch your momma in the mouth.
smn159 said:
You seem to be trying to cast doubt on the report without actually saying what you think. Why not just make your point instead of dancing around it?
Do you not believe the findings?
I certainly do not believe things are as bad as suggested in that report if I go by the headlines.Do you not believe the findings?
What I do know is that words can be incredibly destructive and reports like this embolden criminals and demotivates good police officers.
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