World Athletics transgender women ban

[bobbo89]

WorldBoss said:

What other medical conditions do you suppose we withhold treatment for in hopes to not 'avoid biological reality'?

Cancer treatment? Cleft palate? Are childhood immunisation heinous for denying the 'biological reality ' of pertussis and polio?

Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition. Denying people treatment for it because the treatment doesn't fit in with your ideology is cruel.

Edited by WorldBoss on Saturday 25th March 09:09

Absolutely ridiculous comparisons, give your head a wobble!

Physical intervention with long term medical side effects to treat a potential mental health problem in kids is off the scale crazy.

Kids need their hand holding and guiding through their early years, not drugging up and committing to a lifetime of medicalisation and potential regret.

[Kes Arevo]

WorldBoss said:

What other medical conditions do you suppose we withhold treatment for in hopes to not 'avoid biological reality'?

Cancer treatment? Cleft palate? Are childhood immunisation heinous for denying the 'biological reality ' of pertussis and polio?

Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition. Denying people treatment for it because the treatment doesn't fit in with your ideology is cruel.

Edited by WorldBoss on Saturday 25th March 09:09

Yes, it's just like cancer.

This is clown world.

[Kes Arevo]

bobbo89 said:

Absolutely ridiculous comparisons, give your head a wobble!

Physical intervention with long term medical side effects to treat a potential mental health problem in kids is off the scale crazy.

Kids need their hand holding and guiding through their early years, not drugging up and committing to a lifetime of medicalisation and potential regret.

What next? Tell bulimic girls they are fat, and hold their hair back when they vomit?

[anonymous-user]

bobbo89 said:

Absolutely ridiculous comparisons, give your head a wobble!

Physical intervention with long term medical side effects to treat a potential mental health problem in kids is off the scale crazy.

Kids need their hand holding and guiding through their early years, not drugging up and committing to a lifetime of medicalisation and potential regret.

The comparisons are absolutely no different; They are medical conditions that through medical intervention can be treated and symptoms alleviated, despite what suffering 'biological reality' had in store for a suffer of that condition.

Absolutely no difference when stripped down to the core, unless you are suggesting that gender dysphoria is a condition that doesn't deserve treatment when identified; If that's the case can you please clarify why you think that's the case? Perhaps compare it to some other proven and recognised medical conditions you also think people should 'wait out' before seeking treatment?

The sad fact is that the overwhelming majority of people that are denied treatment over this bizarre logic are genuinely trans and do unfortunately have a lifetime of 'drugging up and committing to a lifetime of medicalisation' regardless as shock horror, gender dysphoria is a real condition. Delaying treatment for it actively harms those people, in the interests of saving the absolute tiny amount of genuinely confused people that end up regretting medical intervention.



Absolutely knew this was coming though; This push against transgender sports competition was never about "fairness". There's always the point made about going through male puberty brought up to harm trans women, but when there's a suggestion of helping trans girls not having to go through male puberty (and be able to compete ""fairly"") if medical professionals consider it to a beneficial course of treatment, the screeching from the gender critters only intensifies.

[anonymous-user]

Kes Arevo said:

Yes, it's just like cancer.

This is clown world.

Nah you're right. Its a big conspiracy, there's just confused, its a phase, will grow out of it, no harm done making people suffer

[Rufus Stone]

WorldBoss said:

Substitute female athletes with your safe trans people and your confused guy for a trans athlete, and you might understand where most people are coming from.

[Kes Arevo]

WorldBoss said:

Nah you're right. Its a big conspiracy, there's just confused, its a phase, will grow out of it, no harm done making people suffer

Who said it's a conspiracy?

[CT05 Nose Cone]

bobbo89 said:

WorldBoss said:

What other medical conditions do you suppose we withhold treatment for in hopes to not 'avoid biological reality'?

Cancer treatment? Cleft palate? Are childhood immunisation heinous for denying the 'biological reality ' of pertussis and polio?

Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition. Denying people treatment for it because the treatment doesn't fit in with your ideology is cruel.

Edited by WorldBoss on Saturday 25th March 09:09

Absolutely ridiculous comparisons, give your head a wobble!

Physical intervention with long term medical side effects to treat a potential mental health problem in kids is off the scale crazy.

Kids need their hand holding and guiding through their early years, not drugging up and committing to a lifetime of medicalisation and potential regret.

It is indeed a condition, for an extremely small minority of people. What we shouldn't be doing is rushing to performing irreversible procedures for something that is, to be blunt, a current trend.

[chrispmartha]

CT05 Nose Cone said:

bobbo89 said:

WorldBoss said:

What other medical conditions do you suppose we withhold treatment for in hopes to not 'avoid biological reality'?

Cancer treatment? Cleft palate? Are childhood immunisation heinous for denying the 'biological reality ' of pertussis and polio?

Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition. Denying people treatment for it because the treatment doesn't fit in with your ideology is cruel.

Edited by WorldBoss on Saturday 25th March 09:09

Absolutely ridiculous comparisons, give your head a wobble!

Physical intervention with long term medical side effects to treat a potential mental health problem in kids is off the scale crazy.

Kids need their hand holding and guiding through their early years, not drugging up and committing to a lifetime of medicalisation and potential regret.

It is indeed a condition, for an extremely small minority of people. What we shouldn't be doing is rushing to performing irreversible procedures for something that is, to be blunt, a current trend.

People said that homosexuality was a ‘current trend’

As posted previously Transgenderism has been around for thousands of years.

What are these irreversible procedures you are talking about?

[E63eeeeee...]

bobbo89 said:

Physical intervention with long term medical side effects to treat a potential mental health problem in kids is off the scale crazy.

FFS. Thankfully most people have moved past this kind of wibble where only physical health counts and you should just shrug off recognised mental health conditions. This kind of bullst has been ruining lives for decades.

Lots of mental health treatments have physical side effects. Doctors balance the harm of not treating against the harm of the treatment all the time. Will you ban them all? Or just the ones you don't like?

[bobbo89]

E63eeeeee... said:

FFS. Thankfully most people have moved past this kind of wibble where only physical health counts and you should just shrug off recognised mental health conditions. This kind of bullst has been ruining lives for decades.

Lots of mental health treatments have physical side effects. Doctors balance the harm of not treating against the harm of the treatment all the time. Will you ban them all? Or just the ones you don't like?

We're talking about giving drugs to kids that prevent them going through puberty, drugs that have some long term and even permanent side effects purely based on what they say.

They're kids, they've experienced fk all of life and have no idea who they are yet some people want to commit them to being trans from a worryingly young age.

Yes, give them mental health support but FFS don't intervene in their physical development.

[E63eeeeee...]

bobbo89 said:

E63eeeeee... said:

FFS. Thankfully most people have moved past this kind of wibble where only physical health counts and you should just shrug off recognised mental health conditions. This kind of bullst has been ruining lives for decades.

Lots of mental health treatments have physical side effects. Doctors balance the harm of not treating against the harm of the treatment all the time. Will you ban them all? Or just the ones you don't like?

We're talking about giving drugs to kids that prevent them going through puberty, drugs that have some long term and even permanent side effects purely based on what they say.

They're kids, they've experienced fk all of life and have no idea who they are yet some people want to commit them to being trans from a worryingly young age.

Yes, give them mental health support but FFS don't intervene in their physical development.

What are your qualifications to make that blanket decision? Have you actually spoken to any of those kids? Why do you think you know better than the doctors and professionals involved in these decisions with the kids and their parents?

[shih tzu faced]

oddman said:

R4 had the Guardian sports correspondent on last night.

Suspect that they thought they might get an argument going by choosing a correspondent from a liberal lefty paper with a record on trans rights (see how their staff hounded out Suzanne Moore)

He said the IOC have chosen the principle of 'fairness' over 'inclusiveness'.

Not exactly a mic drop but a perfect summary for me.

This deserves a bit more recognition.

Fairness over inclusiveness; sums it up very nicely.

It would be nice to be able to include everyone in everything all the time, but that just isn’t possible. Life isn’t like that, not for anyone. We just have to make the best of things and unfortunately sometimes some people are going to be excluded from certain things due to circumstances that are no one’s fault.

[Randy Winkman]

WorldBoss said:

bobbo89 said:

Absolutely ridiculous comparisons, give your head a wobble!

Physical intervention with long term medical side effects to treat a potential mental health problem in kids is off the scale crazy.

Kids need their hand holding and guiding through their early years, not drugging up and committing to a lifetime of medicalisation and potential regret.

The comparisons are absolutely no different; They are medical conditions that through medical intervention can be treated and symptoms alleviated, despite what suffering 'biological reality' had in store for a suffer of that condition.

Absolutely no difference when stripped down to the core, unless you are suggesting that gender dysphoria is a condition that doesn't deserve treatment when identified; If that's the case can you please clarify why you think that's the case? Perhaps compare it to some other proven and recognised medical conditions you also think people should 'wait out' before seeking treatment?

The sad fact is that the overwhelming majority of people that are denied treatment over this bizarre logic are genuinely trans and do unfortunately have a lifetime of 'drugging up and committing to a lifetime of medicalisation' regardless as shock horror, gender dysphoria is a real condition. Delaying treatment for it actively harms those people, in the interests of saving the absolute tiny amount of genuinely confused people that end up regretting medical intervention.



Absolutely knew this was coming though; This push against transgender sports competition was never about "fairness". There's always the point made about going through male puberty brought up to harm trans women, but when there's a suggestion of helping trans girls not having to go through male puberty (and be able to compete ""fairly"") if medical professionals consider it to a beneficial course of treatment, the screeching from the gender critters only intensifies.

I'm a bit confused by your final para so might be barking up the wrong tree - anyway, I dont have a view on pre-puberty treatment but if it does happen, I dont think the decision making process should include whether a person might or might not eventually be able to compete in elite sport. How many people do that?

[Jasandjules]

E63eeeeee... said:

What are your qualifications to make that blanket decision? Have you actually spoken to any of those kids? Why do you think you know better than the doctors and professionals involved in these decisions with the kids and their parents?

Can a 10 year old decide to smoke cigs? No.
Can a 10 year old decide to drink booze? No.
Can a 10 year old drive a car? No.
Can a 10 year old vote? No.

Why not? And why do you think a 10 year old can decide to have serious surgery that will change them for life?

[rambo19]

When I heard this, I just thought to myself;
'about bloody time!'

[ZedLeg]

Jasandjules said:

E63eeeeee... said:

What are your qualifications to make that blanket decision? Have you actually spoken to any of those kids? Why do you think you know better than the doctors and professionals involved in these decisions with the kids and their parents?

Can a 10 year old decide to smoke cigs? No.
Can a 10 year old decide to drink booze? No.
Can a 10 year old drive a car? No.
Can a 10 year old vote? No.

Why not? And why do you think a 10 year old can decide to have serious surgery that will change them for life?

No one is giving 10 year olds surgery, at the most they’ll be put on puberty blockers while next steps are discussed. More likely is that unless they have supportive parents that can go private, nothing will really be done til they’re older anyway.

[bobbo89]

Jasandjules said:

E63eeeeee... said:

What are your qualifications to make that blanket decision? Have you actually spoken to any of those kids? Why do you think you know better than the doctors and professionals involved in these decisions with the kids and their parents?

Can a 10 year old decide to smoke cigs? No.
Can a 10 year old decide to drink booze? No.
Can a 10 year old drive a car? No.
Can a 10 year old vote? No.

Why not? And why do you think a 10 year old can decide to have serious surgery that will change them for life?

Pre-pubescent kids aren't getting surgery, what they are getting however is told that there's such thing as being born in the wrong body and that they can swap between being a girl and a boy, that's wrong on a ridiculous and dangerous level and those who preach such nonsense need calling out.

You cannot change your sex, instilling the idea that you can on impressionable children is beyond the pale.

The notion of a 'trans kid' is just the same as a 'vegan dog'. We all know who's making the decisions...

Edited by bobbo89 on Saturday 25th March 20:17

[loafer123]

ZedLeg said:

Jasandjules said:

E63eeeeee... said:

What are your qualifications to make that blanket decision? Have you actually spoken to any of those kids? Why do you think you know better than the doctors and professionals involved in these decisions with the kids and their parents?

Can a 10 year old decide to smoke cigs? No.
Can a 10 year old decide to drink booze? No.
Can a 10 year old drive a car? No.
Can a 10 year old vote? No.

Why not? And why do you think a 10 year old can decide to have serious surgery that will change them for life?

No one is giving 10 year olds surgery, at the most they’ll be put on puberty blockers while next steps are discussed. More likely is that unless they have supportive parents that can go private, nothing will really be done til they’re older anyway.

Can they change their minds later on puberty blockers? No.

They also don’t have a material benefit in terms of gender dysphoria;

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n356

To my mind, the idea of puberty blockers for 10 year olds is abhorrent, and tantamount to child abuse, given the child themselves is not in a position to make an informed choice.

[E63eeeeee...]

Jasandjules said:

E63eeeeee... said:

What are your qualifications to make that blanket decision? Have you actually spoken to any of those kids? Why do you think you know better than the doctors and professionals involved in these decisions with the kids and their parents?

Can a 10 year old decide to smoke cigs? No.
Can a 10 year old decide to drink booze? No.
Can a 10 year old drive a car? No.
Can a 10 year old vote? No.

Why not? And why do you think a 10 year old can decide to have serious surgery that will change them for life?

That's just a list of meaningless analogies, because none of those things are intended to prevent harm and mental illness, based on decisions between medical professionals, parents and the actual child.

A better analogy might be another medical decision like preventative amputation, or various forms of cancer treatment where, in the right situation, the kid's input is part of the decision process.

Obviously you think that your blanket view should take priority over a decision made collectively by the kid, the parents, and doctors. Do you have some kind of expertise, or are you just staggeringly arrogant? Do you think your opinion should carry more weight in all medical decisions involving the treatment of children than the opinions of the child? Or is it just in this case?