Short flights by football club players
Discussion
It’s a business at the end of the day that uses professional athletes
It’s not unreasonable that they would want to keep those athletes in tip top condition particularly if there is congestion in the fixtures with league, domestic cups, international tournaments all piling up and sometimes meaning playing three matches in a week
To use a simple time/cost/benefit analysis you’d have to say it makes far more sense to minimise travelling and maximise training/rest/recovery time
When Spurs flew up to play Preston they used Blackpool so the airside, transfer, waiting times would have been absolutely minimal.. they could have been in the airport and taking off in under 30 minutes after a 30 min max journey. A couple of hours after the match they’d be back in London and in their cars going home and ready for training next day.
Contrast that to a 6/7 hour coach drive either after an additional nights hotel stay or through the night .. either way they’d be knackered and have lost a valuable day
I can see exactly why they do it and what the benefits for them are
It’s not unreasonable that they would want to keep those athletes in tip top condition particularly if there is congestion in the fixtures with league, domestic cups, international tournaments all piling up and sometimes meaning playing three matches in a week
To use a simple time/cost/benefit analysis you’d have to say it makes far more sense to minimise travelling and maximise training/rest/recovery time
When Spurs flew up to play Preston they used Blackpool so the airside, transfer, waiting times would have been absolutely minimal.. they could have been in the airport and taking off in under 30 minutes after a 30 min max journey. A couple of hours after the match they’d be back in London and in their cars going home and ready for training next day.
Contrast that to a 6/7 hour coach drive either after an additional nights hotel stay or through the night .. either way they’d be knackered and have lost a valuable day
I can see exactly why they do it and what the benefits for them are
Carl_Manchester said:
as someone who uses the public train system extensively, it only works well after 8pm on a weekday. when they are not striking or, there is a leaf on the track.
My last train experience was about the same as that:In Germany: Train to Berlin. 9 euros.
On time to the minute, one transfer, also on time. 1h20 to do about 50 miles including the transfer. Trains run every half an hour or an hour at night.
It's -12c, there's snow on the ground and has been for weeks and it's so cold the trains commutators look like a firework show every time they hit an icicle on the power lines. Still running on time and every train.
One website and ticket covers you for every train and tram in the area and the connecting bus to get to the station to start with (which also run every 30 minutes, and every 90m late at night)
Land in the UK at Manchester: It's -2c, there's the tinest flurries of snow coming down - maybe an inch or two in places at most.
3 trains cancelled. Night buses to Sheffield via Leeds cancelled or in the case of one actually running only allowed pre-booked passengers.
Trains keep getting reinstated and then cancelled again. Wander around the station for hours at 2am, after hunting around various train company websites, some still take fares for tickets with multiple services involved even though you can see the other companies train is cancelled on their own site or the station boards.
Find out one trans-pennine train gets reinstated for 5am-ish. Connecting train from the airport appears to be running too. Head for the platform only to be informed by staff there that the platform is shut because they decided to repaint it hours before when trains were getting cancelled, so the connecting train that says it's running won't actually be, no matter what the live update sites say.
Check the trans-pennine train is still running with the staff there, they think it is but aren't sure.
So the alternative is head to a bus station and try to find a bus running to Manchester Picadilly instead of the connecting train.
Manage to find one, it takes 45 minutes and £3.50 to cover instead of a 10-15m rail trip.
Get to Picadilly, train is delayed, sit for half an hour in what passes for a station there - it's open on 3 sides, genius design, means the cold air can blow right into every corner so you can't get out of it anywhere. Nice.
Train is still showing as arriving on the boards, great, time to get home, walk down to the platform, about 7-8 other people who managed to do similar tricks with taxis or connecting buses are also waiting for the train. The train pulls up into the station and then announces it's cancelled. Technical issues apparently. Even though people are getting off it having just made the trip.
I'm sure it was nothing to do with there only being 8 passengers waiting. Next train isn't for an hour and a half, might be running, might not, staff aren't sure.
Back to sleep in the windy station for a while and hope.
Even after getting that train back, I still need either 2 buses or a tram and a bus to get to where I need to be, and they're not included in the ticket like in Germany, so that's another £2.20 for the tram and another £2.20 for the bus and thankfully those are on time.
Total cost was about £40-45, to also travel about 50 miles the same as my German trip, and I landed about 00:35am and got off the last bus at 10:25am.
So about 9 hours of travelling for the same distance and £40+ versus 1h 20min of travelling at ~£8.
Plus a lot more stress and running back and forth between stations and stops and cross checking service websites to see what is actually running and what isn't.
And I didn't have a much better experience the last time I used them on the way out there either.
Even airport security only took me 10 minutes or so either way, I don't particularly see trains and coaches as less hassle than that...
Flooble said:
kingston12 said:
Indeed, a lot of the demand is about perception of cost and time. If I'm travelling from London to Edinburgh for a week, a £50 flight that will take an hour each way is a lot more attractive than a £200 rail journey that will take five times that.
By the time I've factored in the time/cost of the Stansted Express, waiting around at the airport at both ends, paying/waiting for luggage and then transport to the city centre at the other end, both the total cost and total time taken are a lot closer.
That said, I've just noticed that cheap flights are available from Gatwick now, which might tip the balance a bit.
I obviously don't expect football teams to be flying EasyJet, but I'd agree that the the number of cases where flying within mainland UK is actually really beneficial would be very small.
I've regularly done these trips by both modes, so have pretty good experienced metrics. However, when travelling for business I'd note that I'd drive to the airport (or station). Not my money paying for the parking! Taxi to the customer at the other end means that time is largely the same for both train or airport - most businesses not being on top of the train station.By the time I've factored in the time/cost of the Stansted Express, waiting around at the airport at both ends, paying/waiting for luggage and then transport to the city centre at the other end, both the total cost and total time taken are a lot closer.
That said, I've just noticed that cheap flights are available from Gatwick now, which might tip the balance a bit.
I obviously don't expect football teams to be flying EasyJet, but I'd agree that the the number of cases where flying within mainland UK is actually really beneficial would be very small.
So it came down to:
Train: 10 minutes to the station, wait 10 minutes, 4 hours to Edinburgh (5 to Glasgow, if the connection worked), ~20 minutes in a cab to customer. Work on the train if I could get a seat/table (hit and miss - company would not spring for first class). Total time ~ 4h40 to 5h40. I remember that the 0700 train would mean getting down to work about 1200 by the time it was all sorted (e.g. waiting for a taxi)
Aircraft: 60 minutes to the airport, ~45 minutes of faffing (security, finding gate etc.), ~30 minutes waiting at the gate - usually able to work while waiting. 1h15m for either Edinburgh or Glasgow or Belfast, ~20 minutes to escape the airport, ~20 minutes to customer. Total time ~ 4h10.
For Glasgow, the aircraft was much better. For Edinburgh it was a wash, especially if I managed to book first class or got a table in standard and could work on the whole trip up.
However, this was flying commercially. I've also flown privately. That is another world. Airport (field) is usually 20 minutes away, arrival to being on the aircraft is 10 minutes and the aircraft leaves when you do. I've done Paris door to door in 2h30m.
I am pretty sure that there was an actual academic study which found that anything less than 400 miles was just as quick to drive compared with commercial flights. But private flights - you are seriously going to struggle to beat them on anything less than about 100 miles.
I can definitely imagine private being another world altogether!
Evanivitch said:
Carl_Manchester said:
as someone who uses the public train system extensively, it only works well after 8pm on a weekday. when they are not striking or, there is a leaf on the track.
What's stopping football clubs travelling up at 8pm on a weekday?Another factor - chartered planes are essentially private. Trains are not. They are filled (and frequently ridiculously overfilled) with 'the public' which includes a minority of utter a
holes who might like to make it difficult for the players to enjoy the journey - especially late at night when they may have had a few drinks.mikey_b said:
Probably the same reason that everyone else travelling for work tries not to travel at 8pm. It's late and bites into what should normally be personal time, especially given how often they need to move around the country.
Another factor - chartered planes are essentially private. Trains are not. They are filled (and frequently ridiculously overfilled) with 'the public' which includes a minority of utter aholes who might like to make it difficult for the players to enjoy the journey - especially late at night when they may have had a few drinks.
They’re not. I’m not sure if Avanti do it, but Virgin used to be quite happy to hire out First Class coaches on scheduled services to football teams for exclusive use. When Wigan were in the Premier League it was probably the best way either for them to get to games in London or for the London teams to visit.Another factor - chartered planes are essentially private. Trains are not. They are filled (and frequently ridiculously overfilled) with 'the public' which includes a minority of utter a
holes who might like to make it difficult for the players to enjoy the journey - especially late at night when they may have had a few drinks.Edit: they do - https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/tickets-and-savi...
Edited by alangla on Friday 24th March 15:03
PhillipM said:
My last train experience was about the same as that:
In Germany: Train to Berlin. 9 euros.
On time to the minute, one transfer, also on time. 1h20 to do about 50 miles including the transfer. Trains run every half an hour or an hour at night.
It's -12c, there's snow on the ground and has been for weeks and it's so cold the trains commutators look like a firework show every time they hit an icicle on the power lines. Still running on time and every train.
One website and ticket covers you for every train and tram in the area and the connecting bus to get to the station to start with (which also run every 30 minutes, and every 90m late at night)
[.
According to Deutsche Bahn only 75% of their trains run on time In Germany: Train to Berlin. 9 euros.
On time to the minute, one transfer, also on time. 1h20 to do about 50 miles including the transfer. Trains run every half an hour or an hour at night.
It's -12c, there's snow on the ground and has been for weeks and it's so cold the trains commutators look like a firework show every time they hit an icicle on the power lines. Still running on time and every train.
One website and ticket covers you for every train and tram in the area and the connecting bus to get to the station to start with (which also run every 30 minutes, and every 90m late at night)
[.
Statista tells me 92% of U.K. long distance trains run on time
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-rail-operator-deutsc...
“It has become something of a national joke in Germany that the national train system does not exactly live up to its international reputation as a bastion of punctuality.On Wednesday, rail operator Deutsche Bahn published the statistics to prove it.”
According to DB, only 75.2% of its inter-city services known as the ICE and IC trains reached their destinations on time. This represents a significant dip from 82% in 2020.
Earthdweller said:
According to Deutsche Bahn only 75% of their trains run on time
Statista tells me 92% of U.K. long distance trains run on time
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-rail-operator-deutsc...
“It has become something of a national joke in Germany that the national train system does not exactly live up to its international reputation as a bastion of punctuality.On Wednesday, rail operator Deutsche Bahn published the statistics to prove it.”
According to DB, only 75.2% of its inter-city services known as the ICE and IC trains reached their destinations on time. This represents a significant dip from 82% in 2020.
I guess that seriously depends what they count as on time, versus ours, as well.Statista tells me 92% of U.K. long distance trains run on time
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-rail-operator-deutsc...
“It has become something of a national joke in Germany that the national train system does not exactly live up to its international reputation as a bastion of punctuality.On Wednesday, rail operator Deutsche Bahn published the statistics to prove it.”
According to DB, only 75.2% of its inter-city services known as the ICE and IC trains reached their destinations on time. This represents a significant dip from 82% in 2020.
I've used probably 60-70 trains/trams in Germany the past few months/half year and there was only one I can remember that wasn't on time - because of a track issue it didn't run and they sorted out a free bus replacement that was there within 20 minutes.
If I was paying footballers what they earn I'd want to guarantee they turn up to games, turn up bang on time and as fresh as they can possibly be.
I'm not a big football fan however if viewed through the same lens as say F1, every tiny little gain matters and each player is playing the role of both car and driver. You want both to be at 100% or as close to as possible.
Flying is the best way to tick all of these boxes.
I'm not a big football fan however if viewed through the same lens as say F1, every tiny little gain matters and each player is playing the role of both car and driver. You want both to be at 100% or as close to as possible.
Flying is the best way to tick all of these boxes.
Oliver Hardy said:
I get all the arguments for convenience and so on, but the same is true for business people, royals, politicians...
We are living in a climate emergency, I am being told I shouldn't take a flight on holiday, I should walk or cycle to and from work, people are now being told they will be fined if they drive out of their district. How much do I need to earn before I am exempt from the things I do don't cause environmental damage?
And it is not just the flight from A to B and back, according to what i read the aeroplanes can travel long distances to get to A
You are only being told that because you have sought it out or have curated your echo chamber to be such things. We are living in a climate emergency, I am being told I shouldn't take a flight on holiday, I should walk or cycle to and from work, people are now being told they will be fined if they drive out of their district. How much do I need to earn before I am exempt from the things I do don't cause environmental damage?
And it is not just the flight from A to B and back, according to what i read the aeroplanes can travel long distances to get to A
I saw this on the news last night, even when they factor in the 'positioning flights' it all adds up to a tiniest fraction of a percent compared to all domestic air travel.
They could ban these flights tomorrow and it would make not one iota of difference to overall global warming. The alternative is that they sit on a coach spewing diesel fumes for 8 hours.
I honestly think the rhetoric behind this is tied up in jealousy, "ooh look, footballers, private jets, they're only kicking a pig's bladder around, ban it, ban it, ban it". All rather pathetic and, if you'll pardon the pun, a load of hot air which will result in nothing.
They could ban these flights tomorrow and it would make not one iota of difference to overall global warming. The alternative is that they sit on a coach spewing diesel fumes for 8 hours.
I honestly think the rhetoric behind this is tied up in jealousy, "ooh look, footballers, private jets, they're only kicking a pig's bladder around, ban it, ban it, ban it". All rather pathetic and, if you'll pardon the pun, a load of hot air which will result in nothing.
Evanivitch said:
Carl_Manchester said:
as someone who uses the public train system extensively, it only works well after 8pm on a weekday. when they are not striking or, there is a leaf on the track.
What's stopping football clubs travelling up at 8pm on a weekday?It can also make people poorly being on a train for longer than an hour due to the air-con, I would not want a multi-million pound asset on a train imho never mind 22 of them.
For Arsenal vs Aston Villa it might work.
For Brighton vs. Liverpool, or say Brentford vs. Newcastle you can forget it.
ZedLeg said:
Domestic flights should be banned imo. We’re not that big an Island.
I need to get from Glasgow to bristol/bath on a fairly regular basis for work.7 hours driving, plus a stop to stretch my legs and get fuel. 8 hours on 3 trains.
We're big enough, and I'm not even trying to get from one end to the other.
Diderot said:
Super Sonic said:
Diderot said:
CO2 isn’t a pollutant. You do understand that plants require CO2 to photosynthesise don’t you?
CO² is a greenhouse gas.Earthdweller said:
It’s a business at the end of the day that uses professional athletes
It’s not unreasonable that they would want to keep those athletes in tip top condition particularly if there is congestion in the fixtures with league, domestic cups, international tournaments all piling up and sometimes meaning playing three matches in a week
To use a simple time/cost/benefit analysis you’d have to say it makes far more sense to minimise travelling and maximise training/rest/recovery time
When Spurs flew up to play Preston they used Blackpool so the airside, transfer, waiting times would have been absolutely minimal.. they could have been in the airport and taking off in under 30 minutes after a 30 min max journey. A couple of hours after the match they’d be back in London and in their cars going home and ready for training next day.
Contrast that to a 6/7 hour coach drive either after an additional nights hotel stay or through the night .. either way they’d be knackered and have lost a valuable day
I can see exactly why they do it and what the benefits for them are
Spurs flew to Blackppol from Stansted on the Friday eveining where they were met by 2 coaches, one being the Spurs official bus, can't make out a name on the other. The plane then departed, I believe back to Stansted from where it returned back to Blackpool early Saturday evening to collect Spurs.It’s not unreasonable that they would want to keep those athletes in tip top condition particularly if there is congestion in the fixtures with league, domestic cups, international tournaments all piling up and sometimes meaning playing three matches in a week
To use a simple time/cost/benefit analysis you’d have to say it makes far more sense to minimise travelling and maximise training/rest/recovery time
When Spurs flew up to play Preston they used Blackpool so the airside, transfer, waiting times would have been absolutely minimal.. they could have been in the airport and taking off in under 30 minutes after a 30 min max journey. A couple of hours after the match they’d be back in London and in their cars going home and ready for training next day.
Contrast that to a 6/7 hour coach drive either after an additional nights hotel stay or through the night .. either way they’d be knackered and have lost a valuable day
I can see exactly why they do it and what the benefits for them are
Edited by Russ35 on Friday 24th March 17:55
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