“National Conservatism”
Discussion
InitialDave said:
Vanden Saab said:
Fascists calling their opponents Marxists and vice versa. Always good to watch.
The slight difference is that the fascists, well, are.This National Conservatism looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
Probably walks more like a goose, though.
M.
Mortarboard said:
InitialDave said:
Vanden Saab said:
Fascists calling their opponents Marxists and vice versa. Always good to watch.
The slight difference is that the fascists, well, are.This National Conservatism looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
Probably walks more like a goose, though.
M.
Vanden Saab said:
Which ones in particular?
Pronatalism;https://blogs.dickinson.edu/quallsk/2013/09/19/ger...
Invocation of Marxism as a bogeyman
https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-arch...
I assume that I don’t need to evidence Nazi propaganda around nationalism and identity?
otolith said:
Vanden Saab said:
Which ones in particular?
Pronatalism;https://blogs.dickinson.edu/quallsk/2013/09/19/ger...
Invocation of Marxism as a bogeyman
https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-arch...
I assume that I don’t need to evidence Nazi propaganda around nationalism and identity?
It's fascism. The NatCons aren't fascists, but their ideology, policies and statements are much more fash-y than anything seen in mainstream British right wing politics in the modern political era. It's another click on the right-going ratchet.
2xChevrons said:
There's a term for political ideologies that are populist, nationalist, natalist, socially conservative, economically corporatist and stridently anti-progressive.
It's fascism. The NatCons aren't fascists, but their ideology, policies and statements are much more fash-y than anything seen in mainstream British right wing politics in the modern political era. It's another click on the right-going ratchet.
So the movement best suited for any up and coming facisty leaning youths then?It's fascism. The NatCons aren't fascists, but their ideology, policies and statements are much more fash-y than anything seen in mainstream British right wing politics in the modern political era. It's another click on the right-going ratchet.
M.
otolith said:
Vanden Saab said:
Which ones in particular?
Pronatalism;https://blogs.dickinson.edu/quallsk/2013/09/19/ger...
Invocation of Marxism as a bogeyman
https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-arch...
I assume that I don’t need to evidence Nazi propaganda around nationalism and identity?
cgt2 said:
What works in rural America hoodwinking and fleecing gullible dips*its with a confused notion of Christianity whilst endorsing terrible moral choices will not translate over here in any conceivable way in my view.
I generally agree with you. What is considered right wing here would be centrist at best in the US and some of the other countries referred to.But...
We shouldn't be complacent. There are f
kwits at both ends of the left/right spectrum here and it's not hard to see us tipping.Maybe we're still in the middle of a cycle where things need to stretch out across that spectrum, having had centrist greyness for 3 decades?
Interesting times. And nobody to extricate us from them for at least the next cycle, and probably 2 or 3.
What would be useful is for the Tories to get humped at the GE, but for Labour to need to go into coalition with someone who was hot on electoral reform.
otolith said:
Vanden Saab said:
God no, I am a confirmed agnostic atheist with a strong dislike of most religions. I do find it amusing that the OP has bypassed Godwin's law by going there in his original post though. No doubt this group are planning ahead for the inevitable change to PR. some seem to be supporting when small parties like this will hold the balance of power.... see Scotland for details...
I didn’t go there, they did, with their bizarre choice of name and policies straight out of the 1940’s fascist playbook. What happened with Trump and his supporters following the last election, was pretty scary to be honest and not dissimilar to what happened with the burning of the Reichstag in Germany in 1933. Thankfully the Trump supporters barely had a braincell between them, so nothing really came of it.
In reality the true divide in modern politics is becoming between "globalist" and "national".
Globalist politics has at its heart the service of capital which needs the eradication of the national in order to earn the greatest return regardless of the welfare of the ordinary citizen. Any fightback is based upon the nation state, the only proven system of governance that has ever reduced wealth and income inequalities.
Biden's victory over Trump was partly based upon realising the importance of the national and fighting back against neo-liberalism. He has continued that agenda in office with massive subsidies to rebase production in America.
Here we have politicians who ape political discussions in America without any real idea, or plan, of how to achieve them in a British context.
Globalist politics has at its heart the service of capital which needs the eradication of the national in order to earn the greatest return regardless of the welfare of the ordinary citizen. Any fightback is based upon the nation state, the only proven system of governance that has ever reduced wealth and income inequalities.
Biden's victory over Trump was partly based upon realising the importance of the national and fighting back against neo-liberalism. He has continued that agenda in office with massive subsidies to rebase production in America.
Here we have politicians who ape political discussions in America without any real idea, or plan, of how to achieve them in a British context.
BigMon said:
Just like Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum, do they honestly believe those of us who are non-partisan and just want what's best for Britain are crying out for this absolute tripe?
It honestly makes me just look on with despair.
This.It honestly makes me just look on with despair.
What is it with today's muppet-esque politicians? They're supposed to be running the bloody country.
2xChevrons said:
There's a term for political ideologies that are populist, nationalist, natalist, socially conservative, economically corporatist and stridently anti-progressive.
It's fascism. The NatCons aren't fascists, but their ideology, policies and statements are much more fash-y than anything seen in mainstream British right wing politics in the modern political era. It's another click on the right-going ratchet.
Natalism is an interesting one. Advocates of large scale immigration frequently argue that we need immigrants for demographic reasons - declining birthrate in most Western countries usually being cited as the cause. I can't see anything intrinsically Fascist about looking to address that problem at source, rather than relying on other countries to supply an endless stream of young people so we can keep kicking the can down the road. I suppose it depends on what solutions the natalists come up with.It's fascism. The NatCons aren't fascists, but their ideology, policies and statements are much more fash-y than anything seen in mainstream British right wing politics in the modern political era. It's another click on the right-going ratchet.
I would also argue that social conservatism is not in any way an indicator of Fascism. Not sure whether you are being deliberately provocative or just sloppy with language. Fascists interfere endlessly with social structures and norms for their own ends. They might try to hide their motives behind a thin veneer of conservatism, but conservative they are not.
I'll let you have the rest of your definition though. Presumably by "right going ratchet" you are referring to the direction of travel of the Conservative party, rather than society as a whole? I don't see much appetite in the general population for fascism-lite. Britain has never gone in for that stuff on any great scale, as the Tories will find out if they keep heading down the path previously trodden by Oswald Mosley and friends.
2xChevrons said:
There's a term for political ideologies that are populist, nationalist, natalist, socially conservative, economically corporatist and stridently anti-progressive.
It's fascism. The NatCons aren't fascists, but their ideology, policies and statements are much more fash-y than anything seen in mainstream British right wing politics in the modern political era. It's another click on the right-going ratchet.
Or Social Democratic.....It's fascism. The NatCons aren't fascists, but their ideology, policies and statements are much more fash-y than anything seen in mainstream British right wing politics in the modern political era. It's another click on the right-going ratchet.
As when the Social Democratic parties of Europe were popular they were often combining most of the elements of the above. You are mistaken I think in attributing a national based economic strategy solely with the right. In fact traditionally the left were more suspicious of globalisation.
This is making Sunak look incredibly weak though, some big names (albeit without a cabinet position) are making a lot of noise and not being held to account. Sunak wanders around chanting more three word slogans and this mob are creating a party within a party with a pretty horrendous sounding ideology.
Alas it could also be a tactical thing, the life long Tories will always vote Tory and may not approve of Sunak or even rate him that highly but their vote is secure… this Nat-C group then shore up the far right vote, then they all come back together at the general election under a “one Conservatives” banner…
The Tories seem oblivious to the fact that the country will embrace tactical voting at the next GE though.
Alas it could also be a tactical thing, the life long Tories will always vote Tory and may not approve of Sunak or even rate him that highly but their vote is secure… this Nat-C group then shore up the far right vote, then they all come back together at the general election under a “one Conservatives” banner…
The Tories seem oblivious to the fact that the country will embrace tactical voting at the next GE though.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Sounds reasonable enough to me. Low birth rates are a problem, and if they Guardian aren't calling you a far right lunatic then you're doing something very wrong.
deckster said:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/national-c...
Racists, xenophobes, religious bigots and homophobes.
Certain posters here will love them.
If it wasn't clear, this is the US group sponsoring the conference. A delightful bunch I'm sure we can agree. Racists, xenophobes, religious bigots and homophobes.
Certain posters here will love them.
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