CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)

[jameswills]

BigMon said:

jameswills said:

Bread and circuses. And I put elections into that pot, I think it’s bonkers and hilarious people are actually going to go out of their way to put an X next to anyone near government and think they have their interests at heart and will make their lives better. Closest response to that statement will be “what can we do”. Well with that attitude, nothing.

And what are you suggesting as an alternative to our democratic process then?

I’m not, I don’t have an answer. I’m at least man enough to admit the current thing is utterly broken and is not serving the people that it purports to. I’ve tried to come up with something, but it all tends to lead to what we have now in the end. I don’t really like the answer of “well, it’s crap, but it’s the best we’ve got” either.

Can you think of an answer? I suppose my suggestion is step 1: admit it’s wrong and we need better, until that happens, we’re stuck in a doom loop.

Edited by jameswills on Friday 15th March 16:01

[r3g]

Hants PHer said:

alangla said:

Long Covid was definitely being talked about in the summer of 2020 as I recall, pretty sure it predates the vaccines and, as Isaldiri says, it was thought by plenty on here then to be simply a post-viral complication, similar to those experienced after other viruses of similar severity.

Indeed. Of course, if someone is convinced that the vaccines caused long Covid, and someone is 'amazed' that people can't see the 'obvious' connection, then someone will probably ignore this inconvenient truth.

Well, it is obvious, but only to those who are prepared to open their eyes and see what's going on, rather than obediently listening to and following the government rhetoric.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC79923...

"“Long COVID” is the condition whereby affected individuals do not recover for several weeks or months following the onset of symptoms suggestive of COVID-19, whether tested or not.1 The name “long COVID” was created by the people experiencing it in Spring 2020 to describe their journeys of not recovering.2 Here, we suggest a way to standardize its definition through outlining what constitutes initial infection with COVID-19."

OK cool. Let's run with it.

But wait..

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/15/lo...

"Time to stop using term ‘long Covid’ as symptoms are no worse than those after flu, study finds"

So the term "long covid" was coined (to feel special?) by those who were experiencing the after effects of a respiratory virus (such as 'flu) and nothing out of ordinary whatsoever, ie. it's a complete nonsense term, but gvies the sleeve-rollers a handy excuse for why they're all constantly sick after their 4/5 experimental vaccines.

[vixen1700]

Sleeve-rollers

[Hants PHer]

Roderick Spode said:

The conflation of post-viral fatigue and vaccine side effects into one convenient package called 'Long Covid' has not been helpful for either group of sufferers. It has allowed the medical community to airily dismiss long term health implications of Covid infection, whilst simultaneously being able to ignore the inconvenient source of vaccine-induced harms.

Sustained lung deficiency? Long Covid. Heart palpitations? Long Covid. Chronic neuralgia? Long Covid. Uncontrolled menstrual bleeding? Errr... Long Covid.

Definitely not the safe and effective. No siree. Long Covid, innit?

Oh I agree, I find the very term "long Covid" misleading. As you say, to bundle together the after effects of a virus (March 2020 onwards) with vaccine damage (January 2021 onwards) and Covid restrictions such as missed diagnoses (March 2020 onwards) is unhelpful.

Clearly, if there were long Covid-ish symptoms being observed before deployment of the vaccines, the virus itself. and perhaps lockdown restrictions, must be partly responsible.

To assert, as r3g continually does, that the cause must be the vaccines, when there's at least three variables in play, is unscientific at best.

For clarity, my position is not that the vaccines CANNOT have caused damage.
My position is that there is no proof that it was ONLY the vaccines that have caused damage. It's probably a mix of all three variables, and it's not currently possible to state the relative importance of each.

[BigMon]

jameswills said:

I’m not, I don’t have an answer. I’m at least man enough to admit the current thing is utterly broken and is not serving the people that it purports to. I’ve tried to come up with something, but it all tends to lead to what we have now in the end. I don’t really like the answer of “well, it’s crap, but it’s the best we’ve got” either.

Can you think of an answer? I suppose my suggestion is step 1: admit it’s wrong and we need better, until that happens, we’re stuck in a doom loop.

Edited by jameswills on Friday 15th March 16:01

Well your choices are to essentially suck it up or try and do something about it.

Revolution is unlikely but, as much as I think he's a colossal walloper, I have to grudgingly take my hat off to Farage for going against the political grain and forcing change so maybe take inspiration from him if you're utterly pissed off with our political system.

[jameswills]

BigMon said:

Well your choices are to essentially suck it up or try and do something about it.

Revolution is unlikely but, as much as I think he's a colossal walloper, I have to grudgingly take my hat off to Farage for going against the political grain and forcing change so maybe take inspiration from him if you're utterly pissed off with our political system.

I’m not pissed off, I just see it for what it is. A charade. Farage didn’t do anything, he just ran a different marketing campaign for the same purpose. Get a seat at the free money table.

[Elysium]

BigMon said:

jameswills said:

I’m not, I don’t have an answer. I’m at least man enough to admit the current thing is utterly broken and is not serving the people that it purports to. I’ve tried to come up with something, but it all tends to lead to what we have now in the end. I don’t really like the answer of “well, it’s crap, but it’s the best we’ve got” either.

Can you think of an answer? I suppose my suggestion is step 1: admit it’s wrong and we need better, until that happens, we’re stuck in a doom loop

Well your choices are to essentially suck it up or try and do something about it.

Revolution is unlikely but, as much as I think he's a colossal walloper, I have to grudgingly take my hat off to Farage for going against the political grain and forcing change so maybe take inspiration from him if you're utterly pissed off with our political system.

As we clawed ourselves out of the mess created by lockdown one of the things that gave me solace was watching politicians around the world lose the power that they had so desperately tried to protect.

In the UK, the majority of the people responsible for the mess we got ourselves into have already fallen on their swords. Rishi remains, but perhaps not for much longer.

It sticks in my craw a little bit to think that Starmer, who did little more than sit on the fence and encourage longer, harder restrictions, may well come out of this having 'won'. But I suspect he will also get his comeuppance in time.

I understand why people now feel disillusioned with the political system. It entirely failed us. I find Labour hardest to forgive, because they are supposed to be the opposition. In reality, the only meaningful political opposition to lockdown came, ironically, from backbench Tory MP's.

I considered myself to be centre left before this debacle. But my team let me down.

[jameswills]

Elysium said:

As we clawed ourselves out of the mess created by lockdown one of the things that gave me solace was watching politicians around the world lose the power that they had so desperately tried to protect.

In the UK, the majority of the people responsible for the mess we got ourselves into have already fallen on their swords. Rishi remains, but perhaps not for much longer.

It sticks in my craw a little bit to think that Starmer, who did little more than sit on the fence and encourage longer, harder restrictions, may well come out of this having 'won'. But I suspect he will also get his comeuppance in time.

I understand why people now feel disillusioned with the political system. It entirely failed us. I find Labour hardest to forgive, because they are supposed to be the opposition. In reality, the only meaningful political opposition to lockdown came, ironically, from backbench Tory MP's.

I considered myself to be centre left before this debacle. But my team let me down.

I was a life long Tory voter, think how I feel!

[g4ry13]

Elysium said:

BigMon said:

jameswills said:

I’m not, I don’t have an answer. I’m at least man enough to admit the current thing is utterly broken and is not serving the people that it purports to. I’ve tried to come up with something, but it all tends to lead to what we have now in the end. I don’t really like the answer of “well, it’s crap, but it’s the best we’ve got” either.

Can you think of an answer? I suppose my suggestion is step 1: admit it’s wrong and we need better, until that happens, we’re stuck in a doom loop

Well your choices are to essentially suck it up or try and do something about it.

Revolution is unlikely but, as much as I think he's a colossal walloper, I have to grudgingly take my hat off to Farage for going against the political grain and forcing change so maybe take inspiration from him if you're utterly pissed off with our political system.

As we clawed ourselves out of the mess created by lockdown one of the things that gave me solace was watching politicians around the world lose the power that they had so desperately tried to protect.

In the UK, the majority of the people responsible for the mess we got ourselves into have already fallen on their swords. Rishi remains, but perhaps not for much longer.

It sticks in my craw a little bit to think that Starmer, who did little more than sit on the fence and encourage longer, harder restrictions, may well come out of this having 'won'. But I suspect he will also get his comeuppance in time.

I understand why people now feel disillusioned with the political system. It entirely failed us. I find Labour hardest to forgive, because they are supposed to be the opposition. In reality, the only meaningful political opposition to lockdown came, ironically, from backbench Tory MP's.

I considered myself to be centre left before this debacle. But my team let me down.

Opposition doesn't mean that you have to oppose absolutely everything the Government does out of principle. There are some things the House unites on and Covid was one of them.

It's just very disappointing how there was carte blanche and very few brains to ask the important questions.

[Elysium]

g4ry13 said:

Elysium said:

BigMon said:

jameswills said:

I’m not, I don’t have an answer. I’m at least man enough to admit the current thing is utterly broken and is not serving the people that it purports to. I’ve tried to come up with something, but it all tends to lead to what we have now in the end. I don’t really like the answer of “well, it’s crap, but it’s the best we’ve got” either.

Can you think of an answer? I suppose my suggestion is step 1: admit it’s wrong and we need better, until that happens, we’re stuck in a doom loop

Well your choices are to essentially suck it up or try and do something about it.

Revolution is unlikely but, as much as I think he's a colossal walloper, I have to grudgingly take my hat off to Farage for going against the political grain and forcing change so maybe take inspiration from him if you're utterly pissed off with our political system.

As we clawed ourselves out of the mess created by lockdown one of the things that gave me solace was watching politicians around the world lose the power that they had so desperately tried to protect.

In the UK, the majority of the people responsible for the mess we got ourselves into have already fallen on their swords. Rishi remains, but perhaps not for much longer.

It sticks in my craw a little bit to think that Starmer, who did little more than sit on the fence and encourage longer, harder restrictions, may well come out of this having 'won'. But I suspect he will also get his comeuppance in time.

I understand why people now feel disillusioned with the political system. It entirely failed us. I find Labour hardest to forgive, because they are supposed to be the opposition. In reality, the only meaningful political opposition to lockdown came, ironically, from backbench Tory MP's.

I considered myself to be centre left before this debacle. But my team let me down.

Opposition doesn't mean that you have to oppose absolutely everything the Government does out of principle. There are some things the House unites on and Covid was one of them.

It's just very disappointing how there was carte blanche and very few brains to ask the important questions.

Of course. But there should have been some opposition to lockdown. It was unprecedented, untested, unscientific and no one had considered the consequences.

But instead of holding the Govt to account on those questions, Labour only wanted more of it.

[B'stard Child]

g4ry13 said:

Elysium said:

BigMon said:

jameswills said:

I’m not, I don’t have an answer. I’m at least man enough to admit the current thing is utterly broken and is not serving the people that it purports to. I’ve tried to come up with something, but it all tends to lead to what we have now in the end. I don’t really like the answer of “well, it’s crap, but it’s the best we’ve got” either.

Can you think of an answer? I suppose my suggestion is step 1: admit it’s wrong and we need better, until that happens, we’re stuck in a doom loop

Well your choices are to essentially suck it up or try and do something about it.

Revolution is unlikely but, as much as I think he's a colossal walloper, I have to grudgingly take my hat off to Farage for going against the political grain and forcing change so maybe take inspiration from him if you're utterly pissed off with our political system.

As we clawed ourselves out of the mess created by lockdown one of the things that gave me solace was watching politicians around the world lose the power that they had so desperately tried to protect.

In the UK, the majority of the people responsible for the mess we got ourselves into have already fallen on their swords. Rishi remains, but perhaps not for much longer.

It sticks in my craw a little bit to think that Starmer, who did little more than sit on the fence and encourage longer, harder restrictions, may well come out of this having 'won'. But I suspect he will also get his comeuppance in time.

I understand why people now feel disillusioned with the political system. It entirely failed us. I find Labour hardest to forgive, because they are supposed to be the opposition. In reality, the only meaningful political opposition to lockdown came, ironically, from backbench Tory MP's.

I considered myself to be centre left before this debacle. But my team let me down.

Opposition doesn't mean that you have to oppose absolutely everything the Government does out of principle. There are some things the House unites on and Covid was one of them.

It's just very disappointing how there was carte blanche and very few brains to ask the important questions.

Unfortunately for the past 20 years it has seemed like the opposition position was always the opposite of the government and never agreement (both main parties are gappy just to throw rocjs at each other)

The one fking time I thought it’s OK the opposition would challenge the excesses of Covid restriction and spending they decided their traditional std of opposition would be turned on it’s and they clamoured for “harder, longer and more spending”

Let down is an understatement s all of them……….

[Roderick Spode]

g4ry13 said:

Opposition doesn't mean that you have to oppose absolutely everything the Government does out of principle. There are some things the House unites on and Covid was one of them.

It's just very disappointing how there was carte blanche and very few brains to ask the important questions.

It wasn't even so much the lack of opposition that disappointed - as you say at times of real or perceived national peril, The House comes together and overcomes differences for the benefit of the national interest. Rather, it was the complete and utter disinterest in hearing differing or contrary opinions when it came to the social, financial or medical policies implemented and passed through on the nod. Anything criticising the government approach to Covid was relegated to Early Day motions, Ten Minute bills, or other niche poorly attended debates. In some cases there were single figures of MPs plus the Speaker to hear a 'debate' on matters of public health in disagreement with the received orthodoxy. Andrew Bridgen MP, for example, was castigated and vilified for daring to speak out against government policy - I mean how dare he. Comply citizen.

[r3g]

Hants PHer said:

To assert, as r3g continually does, that the cause must be the vaccines, when there's at least three variables in play, is unscientific at best.

For clarity, my position is not that the vaccines CANNOT have caused damage.
My position is that there is no proof that it was ONLY the vaccines that have caused damage. It's probably a mix of all three variables, and it's not currently possible to state the relative importance of each.

You can try dress it up however you want, but the truth of the matter is that "long covid" is a made-up term to describe what's already happened for centuries after people have had a respiratory infection. It's a poor attempt at trying to reinvent the wheel but looks like you've been suckered by it.

The symptons of """ long covid """ going forwards are simply a result of repeatedly getting injected with the (not-)vaccines which do absolutely nothing positive for you, as evidenced by all the jabbed spending all their time coughing up their lungs and/or laid up in bed vs the unjabbed getting on with life as normal, wondering what all the fuss is about.

Nellie is still in room and is wondering when you are going to start giving her some attention instead of looking the other way and pretending she's not there .

[jameswills]

Elysium said:

Of course. But there should have been some opposition to lockdown. It was unprecedented, untested, unscientific and no one had considered the consequences.

But instead of holding the Govt to account on those questions, Labour only wanted more of it.

Jeremy Corbyn voted against every single measure (that they were allowed to vote on) as an independent. Think about that for a moment!

[zarjaz1991]

jameswills said:

Jeremy Corbyn voted against every single measure (that they were allowed to vote on) as an independent. Think about that for a moment!

Only because it wasn’t strict enough for him.

[r3g]

Everyone's favour "doctor" talks about the lonnnnnnng covaids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcWxjNsl5jc

And no, the top comment is NOT me but clearly there are other people out there with 5000 IQ .

Worth a watch anyway, if you're a believer in official figures.

[Timothy Bucktu]

jameswills said:

I’m not, I don’t have an answer. I’m at least man enough to admit the current thing is utterly broken and is not serving the people that it purports to. I’ve tried to come up with something, but it all tends to lead to what we have now in the end. I don’t really like the answer of “well, it’s crap, but it’s the best we’ve got” either.

Can you think of an answer? I suppose my suggestion is step 1: admit it’s wrong and we need better, until that happens, we’re stuck in a doom loop.

Nothing 'Man' about that...Talk to anyone in the real world, and it's how most people feel.
People need to break these silly highly polarised left/right sided views. There is no left or right in this country, 'just two sides of the same butt cheek'.

[B'stard Child]

B'stard Child said:

mooseracer said:

Are the older volumes of this thread still online? I can't seem to go back more than a couple

Yes but if you navigate via previous thread links they get broken by retrospective moderation so you need to edit the links at the end to change to post 1 to make them work

Alternatively these should work

Vol 18 – Clicky

Vol 17 – Clicky

Vol 16 – Clicky

Vol 15 – Clicky

Vol 14 – Clicky

Vol 13 – Clicky

Vol 12 – Clicky

Vol 11 – Clicky

Vol 10 – Clicky

Vol 9 – Clicky

Vol 8 – Clicky

Vol 7 – Clicky

Vol 6 – Clicky

Vol 5 – Clicky

Vol 4 – Clicky

Vol 3 – Clicky

Vol 2 – Clicky

Original thread – Clicky

Slightly sad but it was a lazy Sunday morning and I had some time as the Forum was quiet

[bern]

I've just read the 1st post from the 1st volume. Has there ever been a more prophetic post made on PH's?

Fair play to the OP.

What an utter stshow the last 4 years have been.

[Countdown]

bern said:

I've just read the 1st post from the 1st volume. Has there ever been a more prophetic post made on PH's?

Fair play to the OP.

What an utter stshow the last 4 years have been.

Esceptico said:

Daughter’s assessment was very pragmatic but also focused on her and her peers. She questioned whether the damage being done to the global economy and the potential for a long recession or even depression like the 1930s was a price worth paying to defer the death of lots of old people with existing health problems (yes the virus doesn’t just kill old people but the mortality rates increase dramatically with age from 0.006% of 10-20 year olds to almost 10% of those over 80.)

Of course, the depression in the 30s was directly or indirectly linked to one of the worst periods in human history and many dead through war, genocide and political repression. If the economic chaos leads to anything similar the numbers killed could dwarf the potential deaths from CV19, the difference being that wars are much less discriminatory and tend to kill all and sundry (particularly young men of combat age).

In 5 or 10 years will we look back and agree with what is being done by governments globally (when a good chunk of those who would die now if the virus were allowed to spread quickly will be dead in any case from other causes) or will those still alive rue the decisions currently being made?

I’m not making predictions or giving an opinion. I just wasn’t sure how to answer her.

maybe my glasses are slightly more rose-tinted than yours but reading the original post I don't see things anywhere near as bad. We havent had a huge recession or depression, (tbf our Economy was dragging along well before COVID) we haven't had "economic chaos", war, genocide, or polictical repression (at least certainly not than whatw as around before). We haven't seen millions of people suffering from "vaccine damage" as some on here keep ranting about.

I think, in 5 or 10 years time, threads like this will be outliers, inhabited by a few people who can't face the fact that they may well have been wrong.