Laurence Fox home raided this am (Blade runner comments?)

[PurpleTurtle]

Quite the week for old Lozza:

Tuesday: stands in central London telling a young copper "fk off, you're not my boss" at some small dick energy St George's Day gathering

Thursday: The High Court drops £180k of libel damages on him.

Well someone is his boss now. LOL.

[smn159]

Countdown said:

crankedup5 said:

Blue62 said:

President Merkin said:

No way he has £180 large, so I guess Jeremy Hosking is writing another cheque. Would be good if he pulled the plug on this serial gobste & fushed him away.

Actually I think Lawrence performs an important service to society at large in reminding us all where we end up when we start believing what people like Farage and Tice are telling us. Next stop David Icke.

And yet disaffected Tories continue to be attracted to those politics. Until we see a credible mainstream political party emerge this trajectory will continue.

if the "disaffected Tories" are being attracted to the policies of parties like Reclaim/Reform why would they be attracted to a "credible mainstream party"? Aren't the two things mutually exclusive?

I know I'm stating the obvious but it's the centre-ground where votes and elections are won. Reform/Reclaim aren't really the "Centre", and I think the only reason that they're att4acting disaffected Tories is because the Conservatives are having a huge fight between the right-wing and the relatively moderate wing. It's this which has created an open goal for Starmer, not his amazing personality or his incisive policies.

The Tories and Reform are fighting each other over the right wing culture warrior vote. There's no way that constituency is ever going to morph into a 'credible mainstream party' because there aren't enough that think that way, despite the impressions that people get from their social media bubbles.

Tories are on a strictly damage limitation exercise for the election, Reform are trying to nick a seat or two if they can, although it looks unlikely. The Tories will never win another election by appealing to the Reform type base, so you'd have to assume that they will revert to the centre ground at some point - although it's likely to get very messy for them post GE as they work it out.

[loudlashadjuster]

And, if you think the Tories have made a right rollicking mess of things over the last 13 years, just wait to see the kind of havoc the kind of brains that admire Trussian policies, turbocharged with additional xenophobia, could wreak on the country...

[valiant]

Countdown said:

crankedup5 said:

Blue62 said:

President Merkin said:

No way he has £180 large, so I guess Jeremy Hosking is writing another cheque. Would be good if he pulled the plug on this serial gobste & fushed him away.

Actually I think Lawrence performs an important service to society at large in reminding us all where we end up when we start believing what people like Farage and Tice are telling us. Next stop David Icke.

And yet disaffected Tories continue to be attracted to those politics. Until we see a credible mainstream political party emerge this trajectory will continue.

if the "disaffected Tories" are being attracted to the policies of parties like Reclaim/Reform why would they be attracted to a "credible mainstream party"? Aren't the two things mutually exclusive?

I know I'm stating the obvious but it's the centre-ground where votes and elections are won. Reform/Reclaim aren't really the "Centre", and I think the only reason that they're att4acting disaffected Tories is because the Conservatives are having a huge fight between the right-wing and the relatively moderate wing. It's this which has created an open goal for Starmer, not his amazing personality or his incisive policies.

A lot of disaffected Tories aren't going to Reform, they'll simply stay at home come election day.

All Reform are taking are the right wing loony fringe votes and as such their base will never really go above 15% or so. You're not going to vote Reform if you're genuinely centre right.

[crankedup5]

Countdown said:

crankedup5 said:

Blue62 said:

President Merkin said:

No way he has £180 large, so I guess Jeremy Hosking is writing another cheque. Would be good if he pulled the plug on this serial gobste & fushed him away.

Actually I think Lawrence performs an important service to society at large in reminding us all where we end up when we start believing what people like Farage and Tice are telling us. Next stop David Icke.

And yet disaffected Tories continue to be attracted to those politics. Until we see a credible mainstream political party emerge this trajectory will continue.

if the "disaffected Tories" are being attracted to the policies of parties like Reclaim/Reform why would they be attracted to a "credible mainstream party"? Aren't the two things mutually exclusive?

I know I'm stating the obvious but it's the centre-ground where votes and elections are won. Reform/Reclaim aren't really the "Centre", and I think the only reason that they're att4acting disaffected Tories is because the Conservatives are having a huge fight between the right-wing and the relatively moderate wing. It's this which has created an open goal for Starmer, not his amazing personality or his incisive policies.

Yup, disaffected Tories. We need a credible third political party.
I appreciate that it the centre ground that reaps the bulk of votes, the two Parties that have created the current political malaise n this Country.

[Blue62]

valiant said:

A lot of disaffected Tories aren't going to Reform, they'll simply stay at home come election day.

All Reform are taking are the right wing loony fringe votes and as such their base will never really go above 15% or so. You're not going to vote Reform if you're genuinely centre right.

This is precisely the point, parties like Reform Ltd top out at 15%, even at the height of Brexit in 2016 UKIP only managed to get 15%. I accept that we are in unusual times, but there’s absolutely no basis for the claim that ‘disaffected Tories’ are running to Reform Ltd, they’re more likely to sit at home or switch to Independent or LD.

[crankedup5]

smn159 said:

Countdown said:

crankedup5 said:

Blue62 said:

President Merkin said:

No way he has £180 large, so I guess Jeremy Hosking is writing another cheque. Would be good if he pulled the plug on this serial gobste & fushed him away.

Actually I think Lawrence performs an important service to society at large in reminding us all where we end up when we start believing what people like Farage and Tice are telling us. Next stop David Icke.

And yet disaffected Tories continue to be attracted to those politics. Until we see a credible mainstream political party emerge this trajectory will continue.

if the "disaffected Tories" are being attracted to the policies of parties like Reclaim/Reform why would they be attracted to a "credible mainstream party"? Aren't the two things mutually exclusive?

I know I'm stating the obvious but it's the centre-ground where votes and elections are won. Reform/Reclaim aren't really the "Centre", and I think the only reason that they're att4acting disaffected Tories is because the Conservatives are having a huge fight between the right-wing and the relatively moderate wing. It's this which has created an open goal for Starmer, not his amazing personality or his incisive policies.

The Tories and Reform are fighting each other over the right wing culture warrior vote. There's no way that constituency is ever going to morph into a 'credible mainstream party' because there aren't enough that think that way, despite the impressions that people get from their social media bubbles.

Tories are on a strictly damage limitation exercise for the election, Reform are trying to nick a seat or two if they can, although it looks unlikely. The Tories will never win another election by appealing to the Reform type base, so you'd have to assume that they will revert to the centre ground at some point - although it's likely to get very messy for them post GE as they work it out.

Much of what you suggest I can broadly agree with.
The Tories are losing potential votes to Reform U.K. certainly.
I have always said that they will need a couple of GE rounds before they can perhaps develop and mature into credible political party.
I don’t see choice as a bad thing

[eharding]

crankedup5 said:

Yup, disaffected Tories. We need a credible third political party.

Are you actually a Tory voter though Cranky? From memory, your professed political allegiance on PH has lurched all over the place through the years, from LibDem to UKIP, but I don't remember you saying that you were going to vote Tory, just moaning that you wouldn't because they weren't enough...well...Cranky.

[crankedup5]

valiant said:

Countdown said:

crankedup5 said:

Blue62 said:

President Merkin said:

No way he has £180 large, so I guess Jeremy Hosking is writing another cheque. Would be good if he pulled the plug on this serial gobste & fushed him away.

Actually I think Lawrence performs an important service to society at large in reminding us all where we end up when we start believing what people like Farage and Tice are telling us. Next stop David Icke.

And yet disaffected Tories continue to be attracted to those politics. Until we see a credible mainstream political party emerge this trajectory will continue.

if the "disaffected Tories" are being attracted to the policies of parties like Reclaim/Reform why would they be attracted to a "credible mainstream party"? Aren't the two things mutually exclusive?

I know I'm stating the obvious but it's the centre-ground where votes and elections are won. Reform/Reclaim aren't really the "Centre", and I think the only reason that they're att4acting disaffected Tories is because the Conservatives are having a huge fight between the right-wing and the relatively moderate wing. It's this which has created an open goal for Starmer, not his amazing personality or his incisive policies.

A lot of disaffected Tories aren't going to Reform, they'll simply stay at home come election day.

All Reform are taking are the right wing loony fringe votes and as such their base will never really go above 15% or so. You're not going to vote Reform if you're genuinely centre right.

15% is not bad going.
Not voting is a stain, the Tories need a good kicking and voting Reform U.K. will be a strong wake up call for the Tory Party. Some much needed motivation to get their act together.

[Castrol for a knave]

PurpleTurtle said:

Quite the week for old Lozza:

.

Well someone is his boss now. LOL.

Here's his new boss

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/insolv...

[crankedup5]

eharding said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, disaffected Tories. We need a credible third political party.

Are you actually a Tory voter though Cranky? From memory, your professed political allegiance on PH has lurched all over the place through the years, from LibDem to UKIP, but I don't remember you saying that you were going to vote Tory, just moaning that you wouldn't because they weren't enough...well...Cranky.

I switched from Labour when I was a young guy to Lib Dem’s for many years. Thinking that we would be in the EU forever the Lib Dem’s offered what I broadly believed in, I was disregarding EU membership, good Social policies without over taxation issues. I voted Tory for the past three GE. I considered Tory / Lib Dem coalition Government worked fairly well in fairness.
I now fear a Labour Government introducing death taxes which bite ever deeper, even though they have moved to the centre ground they will still be same old labour. But no worse or better than current Tories.
I was never a member of. UKIP but of course I was a brexiteer. Very early did consider joining but in the end kept my wallet in pocket. Wanting my cake and eating it I suppose.
I have been a PH member for 20 consecutive years and made many good enemies (joke).
Crankies potted PH political history as best as I can recall. Such is life.

[valiant]

crankedup5 said:

15% is not bad going.
Not voting is a stain, the Tories need a good kicking and voting Reform U.K. will be a strong wake up call for the Tory Party. Some much needed motivation to get their act together.

But that’s where it will stay. 15%. You ain't doing anything with that.

This election will be the zenith for Reform support as the Tory party will rebuild after the drubbing they’ll receive at the next election (after a period of civil war within the party) and by the next election will be well on the way to electability once again. They may not win but they will be in a better position as elections are won in the centre and that’s where the Tory party will be fighting.

Reform will go the way of UKIP and the Brexit Party in that they will be a home for cranks (no pun intended!) and the alt-right and fade into obscurity unless Farage comes up with yet another grift.

[cheesejunkie]

crankedup5 said:

Yup, disaffected Tories. We need a credible third political party.
I appreciate that it the centre ground that reaps the bulk of votes, the two Parties that have created the current political malaise n this Country.

Their voters supported it.

In a FPTP system you get two main parties and if you're lucky a substantial enough to affect things protest vote.

What you're asking for is a change in the electoral system. Not happening according to either main party so not happening. Reform will remain losers.

[crankedup5]

cheesejunkie said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, disaffected Tories. We need a credible third political party.
I appreciate that it the centre ground that reaps the bulk of votes, the two Parties that have created the current political malaise n this Country.

Their voters supported it.

In a FPTP system you get two main parties and if you're lucky a substantial enough to affect things protest vote.

What you're asking for is a change in the electoral system. Not happening according to either main party so not happening. Reform will remain losers.

Yup, and I was part of the situation by voting Tory.Last time around though was purely to ‘get brexit done’. I agree that bringing a new third political party into a credible force is nigh impossible in the U.K. No wonder the ‘turn out’ at G.E continues to fall .Perfect for politicians of course.

[crankedup5]

valiant said:

crankedup5 said:

15% is not bad going.
Not voting is a stain, the Tories need a good kicking and voting Reform U.K. will be a strong wake up call for the Tory Party. Some much needed motivation to get their act together.

But that’s where it will stay. 15%. You ain't doing anything with that.

This election will be the zenith for Reform support as the Tory party will rebuild after the drubbing they’ll receive at the next election (after a period of civil war within the party) and by the next election will be well on the way to electability once again. They may not win but they will be in a better position as elections are won in the centre and that’s where the Tory party will be fighting.

Reform will go the way of UKIP and the Brexit Party in that they will be a home for cranks (no pun intended!) and the alt-right and fade into obscurity unless Farage comes up with yet another grift.

And we the electorate will continue to vote, in ever decreasing numbers for the same old tired two main parties. The remaining minnows will fight for scraps.

[2xChevrons]

crankedup5 said:

Yup, and I was part of the situation by voting Tory.Last time around though was purely to ‘get brexit done’. I agree that bringing a new third political party into a credible force is nigh impossible in the U.K. No wonder the ‘turn out’ at G.E continues to fall .Perfect for politicians of course.

crankedup5 said:

And we the electorate will continue to vote, in ever decreasing numbers for the same old tired two main parties. The remaining minnows will fight for scraps.

Care to provide a source for your belief that turnout at GEs "continues to fall"?

Because the numbers from the Electoral Commission/HoC Library show that turnout rose every year from 2001 to 2017, and dipped only by 1.5% (to 67.3%) in 2019.

Yes, it's still some way below the mid/high-70s that were the norm from 1945 to 1997, but it's not falling.

Interestingly it was the arrival of Tony Blair (the apparent election-winning machine) that tanked UK turnout. 77% in 1992, 71% in 1997 (despite the popular notion of a groundswell in that landslide year) and then a crash to 59% (a post-45 low) in 2001.

A result of the narrowing of the UK political landscape and the perceived betrayal of many of Labour's 1997 voters which continues to ripple out into UK politics nearly 30 years later.

[chrispmartha]

2xChevrons said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, and I was part of the situation by voting Tory.Last time around though was purely to ‘get brexit done’. I agree that bringing a new third political party into a credible force is nigh impossible in the U.K. No wonder the ‘turn out’ at G.E continues to fall .Perfect for politicians of course.

crankedup5 said:

And we the electorate will continue to vote, in ever decreasing numbers for the same old tired two main parties. The remaining minnows will fight for scraps.

Care to provide a source for your belief that turnout at GEs "continues to fall"?

Because the numbers from the Electoral Commission/HoC Library show that turnout rose every year from 2001 to 2017, and dipped only by 1.5% (to 67.3%) in 2019.

Yes, it's still some way below the mid/high-70s that were the norm from 1945 to 1997, but it's not falling.

Interestingly it was the arrival of Tony Blair (the apparent election-winning machine) that tanked UK turnout. 77% in 1992, 71% in 1997 (despite the popular notion of a groundswell in that landslide year) and then a crash to 59% (a post-45 low) in 2001.

A result of the narrowing of the UK political landscape and the perceived betrayal of many of Labour's 1997 voters which continues to ripple out into UK politics nearly 30 years later.

Cranked doesn't believe in statistics or numbers apparently.

[crankedup5]

2xChevrons said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, and I was part of the situation by voting Tory.Last time around though was purely to ‘get brexit done’. I agree that bringing a new third political party into a credible force is nigh impossible in the U.K. No wonder the ‘turn out’ at G.E continues to fall .Perfect for politicians of course.

crankedup5 said:

And we the electorate will continue to vote, in ever decreasing numbers for the same old tired two main parties. The remaining minnows will fight for scraps.

Care to provide a source for your belief that turnout at GEs "continues to fall"?

Because the numbers from the Electoral Commission/HoC Library show that turnout rose every year from 2001 to 2017, and dipped only by 1.5% (to 67.3%) in 2019.

Yes, it's still some way below the mid/high-70s that were the norm from 1945 to 1997, but it's not falling.

Interestingly it was the arrival of Tony Blair (the apparent election-winning machine) that tanked UK turnout. 77% in 1992, 71% in 1997 (despite the popular notion of a groundswell in that landslide year) and then a crash to 59% (a post-45 low) in 2001.

A result of the narrowing of the UK political landscape and the perceived betrayal of many of Labour's 1997 voters which continues to ripple out into UK politics nearly 30 years later.

I looked at Statista 1918 - on.

[chrispmartha]

crankedup5 said:

2xChevrons said:

crankedup5 said:

Yup, and I was part of the situation by voting Tory.Last time around though was purely to ‘get brexit done’. I agree that bringing a new third political party into a credible force is nigh impossible in the U.K. No wonder the ‘turn out’ at G.E continues to fall .Perfect for politicians of course.

crankedup5 said:

And we the electorate will continue to vote, in ever decreasing numbers for the same old tired two main parties. The remaining minnows will fight for scraps.

Care to provide a source for your belief that turnout at GEs "continues to fall"?

Because the numbers from the Electoral Commission/HoC Library show that turnout rose every year from 2001 to 2017, and dipped only by 1.5% (to 67.3%) in 2019.

Yes, it's still some way below the mid/high-70s that were the norm from 1945 to 1997, but it's not falling.

Interestingly it was the arrival of Tony Blair (the apparent election-winning machine) that tanked UK turnout. 77% in 1992, 71% in 1997 (despite the popular notion of a groundswell in that landslide year) and then a crash to 59% (a post-45 low) in 2001.

A result of the narrowing of the UK political landscape and the perceived betrayal of many of Labour's 1997 voters which continues to ripple out into UK politics nearly 30 years later.

I looked at Statista 1918 - on.

So you would be able to see the voting turnout in the last 20 years or so has remained fairly consistent and not in ever decreasing numbers.

[Countdown]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lauren...

What an absolute tool.