Israel invaded
Discussion
Unreal said:
NRS said:
andymadmak said:
Unreal said:
If they surrendered and handed over the hostages then there would be international pressure for rebuilding, a two state solution, free elections, settler withdrawal etc. But Hamas would not be in charge so it won't happen.
Agreed, Netanyahu would have to go as well, which might just happen courtesy of the next election. Is there no one on the Palestinian side that could grasp the likely opportunity this could bring? (genuine question)It's academic of course. Hamas won't surrender so they'll be battered into oblivion and sadly a lot of Palestinians with them. I can only guess they think world opinion or a friendly state intervention will save them before that happens.
Edited by Unreal on Friday 19th April 12:12
fizz47 said:
Orit Strook- Israel’s Minister of Settlements
‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
I'm surprised somebody hasn't taken issue with your post or tried to defend that Minister.‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
Regardless, the West Bank is an excellent example of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. As I've said before, no Hamas or Israeli hostages there but since 0ct 7 there has been c.500 Palestinians killed and 8,000 imprisoned (3,000 have not been charged, these could be classed as hostages of Israeli) and evictions have increased.
I happen to come across this on YT, well worth a look.
'Activist, writer and public intellectual Norman Finkelstein speaks candidly about his early upbringing in New York City — raised by parents who were both Holocaust survivors — and how that has led to his tireless pro-Palestinian solidarity work, including his “forensic scholarship” of Israeli criminality and the related abuse of Holocaust memory.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOdRk7Wptjg
Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 20th April 00:23
Wadeski said:
This is a pretty big misreading of Israeli politics. Israel like most countries has a large centrist vote, and many many of them have long apposed Bibi not just personally but politically.
However, Israel is an example of what happens when a small, loud, self-serving minority of extremists hold outsize power in a democracy. Bibi needs the settlers and the crazies votes to maintain his coalition. If the nutters walk away, his government falls (and he goes to prison). As a result, he is in hoc to the crazies.
Combine that with his "only I can save Israel" narcissism that means he will do anything to stay in power, no matter how destructive. Up to and including starting a war.
But look at the voting records - there are about 50% of Israelis who have no truck with him or his ideas.
Not just “only I can save Israel,” but deliberately putting Israelis in harm’s way to maintain the bogeymen for him to fight against. He doesn’t want peace; he’s defined his political existence by struggle to justify himself.However, Israel is an example of what happens when a small, loud, self-serving minority of extremists hold outsize power in a democracy. Bibi needs the settlers and the crazies votes to maintain his coalition. If the nutters walk away, his government falls (and he goes to prison). As a result, he is in hoc to the crazies.
Combine that with his "only I can save Israel" narcissism that means he will do anything to stay in power, no matter how destructive. Up to and including starting a war.
But look at the voting records - there are about 50% of Israelis who have no truck with him or his ideas.
NRS said:
Unreal said:
NRS said:
andymadmak said:
Unreal said:
If they surrendered and handed over the hostages then there would be international pressure for rebuilding, a two state solution, free elections, settler withdrawal etc. But Hamas would not be in charge so it won't happen.
Agreed, Netanyahu would have to go as well, which might just happen courtesy of the next election. Is there no one on the Palestinian side that could grasp the likely opportunity this could bring? (genuine question)It's academic of course. Hamas won't surrender so they'll be battered into oblivion and sadly a lot of Palestinians with them. I can only guess they think world opinion or a friendly state intervention will save them before that happens.
Edited by Unreal on Friday 19th April 12:12
We never hear stories like this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65963...
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestin...
While up to August 2023 200 Palestinians have been killed by Israelis 30 Israelis have been killed by Palestinians, in 2022 it was 27,
Also this is interesting
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-a...
JJJ. said:
fizz47 said:
Orit Strook- Israel’s Minister of Settlements
‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
I'm surprised somebody hasn't taken issue with your post or tried to defend that Minister.‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
Regardless, the West Bank is an excellent example of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. As I've said before, no Hamas or Israeli hostages there but since 0ct 7 there has been c.500 Palestinians killed and 8,000 imprisoned (3,000 have not been charged, these could be classed as hostages of Israeli) and evictions have increased.
I happen to come across this on YT, well worth a look.
'Activist, writer and public intellectual Norman Finkelstein speaks candidly about his early upbringing in New York City — raised by parents who were both Holocaust survivors — and how that has led to his tireless pro-Palestinian solidarity work, including his “forensic scholarship” of Israeli criminality and the related abuse of Holocaust memory.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOdRk7Wptjg
Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 20th April 00:23
mko9 said:
JJJ. said:
fizz47 said:
Orit Strook- Israel’s Minister of Settlements
‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
I'm surprised somebody hasn't taken issue with your post or tried to defend that Minister.‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
Regardless, the West Bank is an excellent example of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. As I've said before, no Hamas or Israeli hostages there but since 0ct 7 there has been c.500 Palestinians killed and 8,000 imprisoned (3,000 have not been charged, these could be classed as hostages of Israeli) and evictions have increased.
I happen to come across this on YT, well worth a look.
'Activist, writer and public intellectual Norman Finkelstein speaks candidly about his early upbringing in New York City — raised by parents who were both Holocaust survivors — and how that has led to his tireless pro-Palestinian solidarity work, including his “forensic scholarship” of Israeli criminality and the related abuse of Holocaust memory.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOdRk7Wptjg
Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 20th April 00:23
JJJ. said:
mko9 said:
JJJ. said:
fizz47 said:
Orit Strook- Israel’s Minister of Settlements
‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
I'm surprised somebody hasn't taken issue with your post or tried to defend that Minister.‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
Regardless, the West Bank is an excellent example of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. As I've said before, no Hamas or Israeli hostages there but since 0ct 7 there has been c.500 Palestinians killed and 8,000 imprisoned (3,000 have not been charged, these could be classed as hostages of Israeli) and evictions have increased.
I happen to come across this on YT, well worth a look.
'Activist, writer and public intellectual Norman Finkelstein speaks candidly about his early upbringing in New York City — raised by parents who were both Holocaust survivors — and how that has led to his tireless pro-Palestinian solidarity work, including his “forensic scholarship” of Israeli criminality and the related abuse of Holocaust memory.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOdRk7Wptjg
Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 20th April 00:23
mko9 said:
JJJ. said:
mko9 said:
JJJ. said:
fizz47 said:
Orit Strook- Israel’s Minister of Settlements
‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
I'm surprised somebody hasn't taken issue with your post or tried to defend that Minister.‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
Regardless, the West Bank is an excellent example of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. As I've said before, no Hamas or Israeli hostages there but since 0ct 7 there has been c.500 Palestinians killed and 8,000 imprisoned (3,000 have not been charged, these could be classed as hostages of Israeli) and evictions have increased.
I happen to come across this on YT, well worth a look.
'Activist, writer and public intellectual Norman Finkelstein speaks candidly about his early upbringing in New York City — raised by parents who were both Holocaust survivors — and how that has led to his tireless pro-Palestinian solidarity work, including his “forensic scholarship” of Israeli criminality and the related abuse of Holocaust memory.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOdRk7Wptjg
Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 20th April 00:23
Get your keyboard finger out!
JJJ. said:
mko9 said:
JJJ. said:
mko9 said:
JJJ. said:
fizz47 said:
Orit Strook- Israel’s Minister of Settlements
‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
I'm surprised somebody hasn't taken issue with your post or tried to defend that Minister.‘There is no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
“There will never be a Palestinian State in the land of Israel,” she said. “Every cultured person in the world knows that this land is ours, for the Israeli people and only for us.
This is a govt minister of parties voted for democratically and as they keep stating that they are the ‘peacemakers’
As statements like this a consistently coming out for the the Israeli leadership we consistently see the west bank being taken over and watching Palestinians being killed all over the place.
Yet we have those who still want to defend this and say this government are our allies and apparently ‘nothing to see here’.
Regardless, the West Bank is an excellent example of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. As I've said before, no Hamas or Israeli hostages there but since 0ct 7 there has been c.500 Palestinians killed and 8,000 imprisoned (3,000 have not been charged, these could be classed as hostages of Israeli) and evictions have increased.
I happen to come across this on YT, well worth a look.
'Activist, writer and public intellectual Norman Finkelstein speaks candidly about his early upbringing in New York City — raised by parents who were both Holocaust survivors — and how that has led to his tireless pro-Palestinian solidarity work, including his “forensic scholarship” of Israeli criminality and the related abuse of Holocaust memory.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOdRk7Wptjg
Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 20th April 00:23
Get your keyboard finger out!
To save further bickering here is one link.
Seems like over 200 were killed in the West Bank before 7 October
So there are now reports coming out of an alleged unmarked mass grave (dug and filled by Israel) at the Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis. If true, this would follow the discovery of further mass graves at Shifa Medical Complexin Gaza City.
If these are indeed as they appear, this would seem to be a significant breach of the Geneva Conventions, and (whether correctly or not) used as evidence of genocide or at the least conduct unbecoming a beacon of morality.
If these are indeed as they appear, this would seem to be a significant breach of the Geneva Conventions, and (whether correctly or not) used as evidence of genocide or at the least conduct unbecoming a beacon of morality.
skwdenyer said:
So there are now reports coming out of an alleged unmarked mass grave (dug and filled by Israel) at the Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis. If true, this would follow the discovery of further mass graves at Shifa Medical Complexin Gaza City.
If these are indeed as they appear, this would seem to be a significant breach of the Geneva Conventions, and (whether correctly or not) used as evidence of genocide or at the least conduct unbecoming a beacon of morality.
Probably only the tip of the iceberg, especially when US want to sanction the Israeli army.If these are indeed as they appear, this would seem to be a significant breach of the Geneva Conventions, and (whether correctly or not) used as evidence of genocide or at the least conduct unbecoming a beacon of morality.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-6887027...
Edited by JJJ. on Monday 22 April 23:11
Nothing to see here except some mass graves and more war crimes
https://x.com/kenroth/status/1782763132525351161?s...
https://x.com/kenroth/status/1782763132525351161?s...
fizz47 said:
Nothing to see here except some mass graves and more war crimes
https://x.com/kenroth/status/1782763132525351161?s...
''War crimes''. Where have we heard that before...https://x.com/kenroth/status/1782763132525351161?s...
Oliver Hardy said:
NRS said:
Unreal said:
NRS said:
andymadmak said:
Unreal said:
If they surrendered and handed over the hostages then there would be international pressure for rebuilding, a two state solution, free elections, settler withdrawal etc. But Hamas would not be in charge so it won't happen.
Agreed, Netanyahu would have to go as well, which might just happen courtesy of the next election. Is there no one on the Palestinian side that could grasp the likely opportunity this could bring? (genuine question)It's academic of course. Hamas won't surrender so they'll be battered into oblivion and sadly a lot of Palestinians with them. I can only guess they think world opinion or a friendly state intervention will save them before that happens.
Edited by Unreal on Friday 19th April 12:12
We never hear stories like this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65963...
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestin...
While up to August 2023 200 Palestinians have been killed by Israelis 30 Israelis have been killed by Palestinians, in 2022 it was 27,
Also this is interesting
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-a...
Leadership in fear of possible ICC warrants according to The Times of Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-ho...
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-ho...
JJJ. said:
Leadership in fear of possible ICC warrants according to The Times of Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-ho...
Don't worry, this will get sorted out. The US will never allow this to happen.https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-ho...
article said:
..during Tuesday’s discussion, which was attended by Katz, Justice Minister Yariv Levin and Strategic Affairs Minister Ron Dermer, it was decided that Israel would reach out to the court and “diplomatic figures with influence” in an effort to prevent the warrants from being issued.
s1962a said:
JJJ. said:
Leadership in fear of possible ICC warrants according to The Times of Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-ho...
Don't worry, this will get sorted out. The US will never allow this to happen.https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-ho...
article said:
..during Tuesday’s discussion, which was attended by Katz, Justice Minister Yariv Levin and Strategic Affairs Minister Ron Dermer, it was decided that Israel would reach out to the court and “diplomatic figures with influence” in an effort to prevent the warrants from being issued.
Does the Israeli govt or IDF ever act with morals or tell the truth?
https://x.com/nbcnightlynews/status/17840011121249...
More of the same and the quicker they are put in front of the ICJ / ICC the better …
https://x.com/nbcnightlynews/status/17840011121249...
More of the same and the quicker they are put in front of the ICJ / ICC the better …
It couldn't possibly be that HAMAS fighters deliberately went there to hide amongst the civilians, right? It could only be that the Israelis are the worst human beings on the face of the planet.
Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
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