Policing of pro Palestinian marches
Discussion
Super Sonic said:
swisstoni said:
Super Sonic said:
swisstoni said:
Let’s pretend these weekly marches were BNP:
And a black man is politely asked by the police to move elsewhere because his presence could be provocative?
Who is to blame?
The black man wanting to live his life like anyone else?
The police?
Or the marchers who might get violent and attack him?
The black man was born black. He didn't choose his skin colour.And a black man is politely asked by the police to move elsewhere because his presence could be provocative?
Who is to blame?
The black man wanting to live his life like anyone else?
The police?
Or the marchers who might get violent and attack him?
Gideon wasn't born wearing a hat. He chose to wear his kippah.
ETA just to be clear, I want all religion to p
s off out of my country. But I'll settle for "it's a private matter you do in your own home".Edited by donkmeister on Tuesday 23 April 09:46
donkmeister said:
So you agree that being against Islam and banning headscarves is fine because religion and clothing are both choices? Well I'd vote for you but I don't think the Hamas/Palestine supporters who totally definitely don't hate people for being Jewish would agree.
ETA just to be clear, I want all religion to ps off out of my country. But I'll settle for "it's a private matter you do in your own home".
Maybe read what I put, and don't put words in my mouth.ETA just to be clear, I want all religion to p
s off out of my country. But I'll settle for "it's a private matter you do in your own home".Edited by donkmeister on Tuesday 23 April 09:46
Solocle said:
rscott said:
I'm guessing you're equally upset about this statement by the Met, where they admit stopping another lawful activity in order to prevent a breach of the peace:
"We’ve had intelligence about pro-Palestinian supporters wanting to drive vehicle convoys, waving flags, through Jewish areas in north London.
Now, there’s nothing illegal about them doing that.
There’s nothing that’s not peaceful about those Jewish communities. But it’s clearly likely to spark some sort of conflict and we prevented them doing it."
Section 5 or 4A public order offence all day long that, add racial/religious aggravation."We’ve had intelligence about pro-Palestinian supporters wanting to drive vehicle convoys, waving flags, through Jewish areas in north London.
Now, there’s nothing illegal about them doing that.
There’s nothing that’s not peaceful about those Jewish communities. But it’s clearly likely to spark some sort of conflict and we prevented them doing it."
Just shows how well the Met know the law!
So very many on here keep on shouting "Gideon Falter" / "he wasn't just any old jew, he was an activist / head of a dodgy group (campaign against antisemitism...(!)) / ties to israel / blah blah"
It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
Bugger me sideways with a small aubergine 
There is nothing to stop you crossing the street.
There should be something to stop you crossing the street if your intention is to cause a breach of the peace by acting like a dhead.
Gideon is absolutely desperate to create a reaction so he can say "Antisemitism!!! It's because I'm JEWISH!!!!!!!!!"
There is nothing to stop you crossing the street.
There should be something to stop you crossing the street if your intention is to cause a breach of the peace by acting like a d
head.Gideon is absolutely desperate to create a reaction so he can say "Antisemitism!!! It's because I'm JEWISH!!!!!!!!!"
ukwill said:
So very many on here keep on shouting "Gideon Falter" / "he wasn't just any old jew, he was an activist / head of a dodgy group (campaign against antisemitism...(!)) / ties to israel / blah blah"
It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
The officer had seen Faulter and his entourage step off the pavement into the road and walk against the protest for no obvious reason. It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
They may also have been aware that he'd been waiting around for the march and hadn't just happened upon it as he claimed.
So coming to the conclusion he wasn't there simply to cross the road, but was intending to cause a reaction isn't unreasonable.
ukwill said:
So very many on here keep on shouting "Gideon Falter" / "he wasn't just any old jew, he was an activist / head of a dodgy group (campaign against antisemitism...(!)) / ties to israel / blah blah"
It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
Hook, line and sinker.It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
rscott said:
ukwill said:
So very many on here keep on shouting "Gideon Falter" / "he wasn't just any old jew, he was an activist / head of a dodgy group (campaign against antisemitism...(!)) / ties to israel / blah blah"
It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
The officer had seen Faulter and his entourage step off the pavement into the road and walk against the protest for no obvious reason. It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
They may also have been aware that he'd been waiting around for the march and hadn't just happened upon it as he claimed.
So coming to the conclusion he wasn't there simply to cross the road, but was intending to cause a reaction isn't unreasonable.
This guy from what I understand lied about where he had been and where he was going. He was walking into a March in the wrong direction and trying to cross the road in the middle of a big demonstration. He was offered alternatives which he refused. The officer clearly said he wasn't being stopped because he was Jewish. But in the light of his actions which to many eyes were deliberately trying to cause a stir he was called out on it. Then oh, he just happens to be the leader of an organisation and has plenty prepared to say and is more than happy to go on the news. He is not a regular minority person going about their business day to day. I dont know why folks can't see that. This isn't edl (I don't know what they write on edl forums but my imagination says it's a lot worse than this). As pointed out there are Jewish folks actually doing the march, without issue from what I have seen.
There was a clip with a bunch of folks chanting at him "shame on you" but there was zero context given to that I would really like to know how that came about. Did they randomly pick on someone or was there some conversation beforehand which started that? If anyone has a link to that please share it.
Of course, like the rest of us when you go for a walk down the road, happily minding your own business, you take four “minders/bodyguards” with you
Re the policeman not knowing who he was I wouldn’t be so sure about that, the intel cells are pretty switched on and from some of the video footage a uniformed officer points out a plain clothes officer who he says had been monitoring Falters movements to him
Re the policeman not knowing who he was I wouldn’t be so sure about that, the intel cells are pretty switched on and from some of the video footage a uniformed officer points out a plain clothes officer who he says had been monitoring Falters movements to him
Countdown said:
Bugger me sideways with a small aubergine
There is nothing to stop you crossing the street.
There should be something to stop you crossing the street if your intention is to cause a breach of the peace by acting like a dhead.
Gideon is absolutely desperate to create a reaction so he can say "Antisemitism!!! It's because I'm JEWISH!!!!!!!!!"
I definitely think there is an element of this although its much bigger. There is nothing to stop you crossing the street.
There should be something to stop you crossing the street if your intention is to cause a breach of the peace by acting like a d
head.Gideon is absolutely desperate to create a reaction so he can say "Antisemitism!!! It's because I'm JEWISH!!!!!!!!!"
Should people conflate being (obviously) Jewish with being Israeli? No.
Would the crowd of protesters apply that logic?
Possibly not.
Are pro Palestinian protesters antisemitic?
The public answer is No. But would you take the chance of walking through the crowd in a kippah? Not me.
Should he have the right to walk down the street?
Yes.
Now put yourself in the copper's shoes.
Clearly Jewish guy potentially walking into a hostile crowd with serious consequences.
Choice of words used by plod could have been better but can you imagine the headline.
"Antisemitic Met Police fail to protect Jewish man from violent crowd. "
It was a no win situation in some respects and Gideon has worked it to his advantage at every opportunity.
IMHO.
Jazzy Jag said:
I definitely think there is an element of this although its much bigger.
Should people conflate being (obviously) Jewish with being Israeli? No.
Would the crowd of protesters apply that logic?
Possibly not.
Are pro Palestinian protesters antisemitic?
The public answer is No. But would you take the chance of walking through the crowd in a kippah? Not me.
Should he have the right to walk down the street?
Yes.
Now put yourself in the copper's shoes.
Clearly Jewish guy potentially walking into a hostile crowd with serious consequences.
Choice of words used by plod could have been better but can you imagine the headline.
"Antisemitic Met Police fail to protect Jewish man from violent crowd. "
It was a no win situation in some respects and Gideon has worked it to his advantage at every opportunity.
IMHO.
This is it. And if a cop says to me, don't walk in the road opposing the march sir. What would I do? Step off the road and carry on with my business, get on with it and not argue. Its a difficult situation and I don't want to get mixed up or in the way.Should people conflate being (obviously) Jewish with being Israeli? No.
Would the crowd of protesters apply that logic?
Possibly not.
Are pro Palestinian protesters antisemitic?
The public answer is No. But would you take the chance of walking through the crowd in a kippah? Not me.
Should he have the right to walk down the street?
Yes.
Now put yourself in the copper's shoes.
Clearly Jewish guy potentially walking into a hostile crowd with serious consequences.
Choice of words used by plod could have been better but can you imagine the headline.
"Antisemitic Met Police fail to protect Jewish man from violent crowd. "
It was a no win situation in some respects and Gideon has worked it to his advantage at every opportunity.
IMHO.
Countdown said:
Bugger me sideways with a small aubergine
There is nothing to stop you crossing the street.
There should be something to stop you crossing the street if your intention is to cause a breach of the peace by acting like a dhead.
Gideon is absolutely desperate to create a reaction so he can say "Antisemitism!!! It's because I'm JEWISH!!!!!!!!!"
But he wouldn't get a reaction because they are protesting against israel, not jews? Unless it is (also) about jews?There is nothing to stop you crossing the street.
There should be something to stop you crossing the street if your intention is to cause a breach of the peace by acting like a d
head.Gideon is absolutely desperate to create a reaction so he can say "Antisemitism!!! It's because I'm JEWISH!!!!!!!!!"
Or are you suggesting the protester are likely to get violent with anyone walking against their flow?
ukwill said:
So very many on here keep on shouting "Gideon Falter" / "he wasn't just any old jew, he was an activist / head of a dodgy group (campaign against antisemitism...(!)) / ties to israel / blah blah"
It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
EDL forum? What a moronic thing to say. It's bloody hilarious.
The policeman who threatened to arrest him had no idea who he was.
Besides which, so bloody what if he's an activist (there seems to be lots of them these days) - he's highlighting what he believes to be of grave concern for jews in the UK (It's what he does...). After all, if these marches were indeed entirely peaceful and in no way antisemitic, we wouldn't be here talking about this because the police wouldn't have stopped him - and him wearing a kippah in the street (yes ladies & gentleman - a jewish bloke wearing a kippah in public...) wouldn't be seen by some as "antagonistic". Every single week there are numerous videos emerging on social media highlighting the increase of antisemitism. And in the aftermath of every one of these events, there are people who are picking the bones out of it and questioning if it's really anti-semitism. To quote someone earlier "...the guy wanted a punch in the face to further his cause. Shame he didnt get one...". If that's the logic, then it seems to me that Jewish activists going out on London streets to highlight their concerns of antisemitism are definitely on to something.
I'm not a policeman and I'm not jewish - but in this country no minority should be worried about walking streets, wearing whatever they wish when "peaceful protests" are on. Else questions should be raised as to why those protests are being allowed. Because to me, that's borderline intimidation. I'm seeing a whole lot of "debate" that wouldn't be out of place on an EDL forum.
Meanwhile, in America
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/white-house-con...
The White House said on Sunday: “While every American has the right to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly antisemitic, unconscionable and dangerous. And echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organisations, especially in the wake of the worst massacre committed against the Jewish people since the Holocaust, is despicable.”
The protests in Britain have managed to keep a lid on this but I think the sentiment and potential for it to flare up is there.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/white-house-con...
The White House said on Sunday: “While every American has the right to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly antisemitic, unconscionable and dangerous. And echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organisations, especially in the wake of the worst massacre committed against the Jewish people since the Holocaust, is despicable.”
The protests in Britain have managed to keep a lid on this but I think the sentiment and potential for it to flare up is there.
Super Sonic said:
donkmeister said:
So you agree that being against Islam and banning headscarves is fine because religion and clothing are both choices? Well I'd vote for you but I don't think the Hamas/Palestine supporters who totally definitely don't hate people for being Jewish would agree.
ETA just to be clear, I want all religion to ps off out of my country. But I'll settle for "it's a private matter you do in your own home".
Maybe read what I put, and don't put words in my mouth.ETA just to be clear, I want all religion to p
s off out of my country. But I'll settle for "it's a private matter you do in your own home".Edited by donkmeister on Tuesday 23 April 09:46
Super Sonic said:
Gideon wasn't born wearing a hat. He chose to wear his kippah.
I think that's equivalent to my view of "there should be no overt displays of religion" (unless of course you are taking the "look how she was dressed, she was asking for it" school of thought.). However, many people out there who are protesting against Israel (and totally not antisemites finding the latest excuse) would disagree.
Who_Goes_Blue said:
Countdown said:
Bugger me sideways with a small aubergine
There is nothing to stop you crossing the street.
There should be something to stop you crossing the street if your intention is to cause a breach of the peace by acting like a dhead.
Gideon is absolutely desperate to create a reaction so he can say "Antisemitism!!! It's because I'm JEWISH!!!!!!!!!"
But he wouldn't get a reaction because they are protesting against israel, not jews? Unless it is (also) about jews?There is nothing to stop you crossing the street.
There should be something to stop you crossing the street if your intention is to cause a breach of the peace by acting like a d
head.Gideon is absolutely desperate to create a reaction so he can say "Antisemitism!!! It's because I'm JEWISH!!!!!!!!!"
Or are you suggesting the protester are likely to get violent with anyone walking against their flow?
Gideon wants to stop protests against Israel's actions by weaponising Antisemitism card.
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