Thames Water- Finished?
Discussion
PugwasHDJ80 said:
You can blame Macquarie Bank and regulators together for this.
Macquarie realised that the company had lots of unrealised profits, an was severely under leveraged.
To be fair (and i'm rarely fair to macquarie as they are a bunch of money grabbing snakes- only Glodmann are bigger egotistical a
holes) the bad rap they are getting now is overblown. The regulator bears the most complaint as macquarie wasn't making excessive profits compared to many many other transactions both then and now- what OfWat needed to do was step in and remind them that critical monopolistic infrastructure doesn't need the same leverage or generate the same 2.7 money multiple.
this is interesting: https://www.infrastructureinvestor.com/macquaries-...
Happy to explain the financial engineering if anyone's interested.
Does ofwat have any powers to do that? They remind them, then what, how can they force to take a certain course of action?Macquarie realised that the company had lots of unrealised profits, an was severely under leveraged.
To be fair (and i'm rarely fair to macquarie as they are a bunch of money grabbing snakes- only Glodmann are bigger egotistical a
holes) the bad rap they are getting now is overblown. The regulator bears the most complaint as macquarie wasn't making excessive profits compared to many many other transactions both then and now- what OfWat needed to do was step in and remind them that critical monopolistic infrastructure doesn't need the same leverage or generate the same 2.7 money multiple. this is interesting: https://www.infrastructureinvestor.com/macquaries-...
Happy to explain the financial engineering if anyone's interested.
borcy said:
Does ofwat have any powers to do that? They remind them, then what, how can they force to take a certain course of action?
See also the EA. Farmer ignores instructions and dredges a few hundred yards of river and gets jailed. Water firms pump st into rivers and coastal resorts, on an industrial scale and not a sole ends up in the dock.The UK taxpayers are funding rafts of quangos that spend 3 days a week on flexi time doing absolutely f
k all. It’s a shambles and a disgrace.S600BSB said:
Sadly yet another example of Tory failure.
TWs leaderships idea to stay in control was to pay put big dividends year on year at the expense of the infrastructure by loading the business with borrowed money/debt.So nothing like the Tories.
Oh wait they are doing that to the country to stay in power. .
Hugo Stiglitz said:
TWs leaderships idea to stay in control was to pay put big dividends year on year at the expense of the infrastructure by loading the business with borrowed money/debt.
So nothing like the Tories.
Oh wait they are doing that to the country to stay in power. .
Didn’t Labour do that last time?So nothing like the Tories.
Oh wait they are doing that to the country to stay in power. .
“ I’m afraid there is no money.’ ” read the note…
heisthegaffer said:
vaud said:
Biker 1 said:
I remember Thatcher's great sell off....
Are any of the previously nationalised companies giving Joe Public decent service??
BT is way better than before. There used to be (long) waiting lists to have a phone installed.Are any of the previously nationalised companies giving Joe Public decent service??
I don't know enough about this so not trying to be contrary but surely some of this is due to tech implementation?
Or perhaps a bit of both?
Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
98elise said:
No, it was a dire service. Also you had to rent your phone from them, and you were not allowed to add extensions around the house. You had the choice of one phone, which later became a choice of two!
Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
Even the French were better and had the likes of Minitel...Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
vaud said:
Didn’t Labour do that last time?
“ I’m afraid there is no money.’ ” read the note…
UK debt as a percentage of GDP in 2010 was 70%, it now sits at 97% and we have the highest tax burden since the 1960's. Austerity was supposed to cut the debt, instead we have nearly 50% more debt as a percentage of GDP and the poorest in this country are worse off (relatively) than they were while the rich have seen their wealth increase hugely over the same time. The last 15 years have been at best a managed economic decline, at worst a complete s“ I’m afraid there is no money.’ ” read the note…
t show. Anyway, Ofwat and Thames Water - Ofwat thought they were regulating water engineering, whereas they really should have been regulating the financial engineering. The problem with having a privatised water industry is there is no competition, and so little incentive for companies to improve. If you live in Birmingham you can't buy from Scottish Water because you're unhappy with Severn Trent's performance on leaks, for example. Neither can you buy from Thames Water because they are cheaper. The market doesn't work and should be renationalised IMO.
By contrast the energy industry is doing better under privatisation, at least in terms of lowering costs to consumers. It is considerably more efficient than it used to be, and there is a lot of competition between firms, both in the retail and generation spaces.
98elise said:
No, it was a dire service. Also you had to rent your phone from them, and you were not allowed to add extensions around the house. You had the choice of one phone, which later became a choice of two!
Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
Be fair, you could have it in a choice of three colours, depending on what was available...Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
Collectingbrass said:
98elise said:
No, it was a dire service. Also you had to rent your phone from them, and you were not allowed to add extensions around the house. You had the choice of one phone, which later became a choice of two!
Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
Be fair, you could have it in a choice of three colours, depending on what was available...Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
But I'd say that was not an inevitability of it being public owned. Things could be public owned and deliver a good service. I think that's the trick looking forwards.
Randy Winkman said:
Collectingbrass said:
98elise said:
No, it was a dire service. Also you had to rent your phone from them, and you were not allowed to add extensions around the house. You had the choice of one phone, which later became a choice of two!
Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
Be fair, you could have it in a choice of three colours, depending on what was available...Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
But I'd say that was not an inevitability of it being public owned. Things could be public owned and deliver a good service. I think that's the trick looking forwards.
British Telecom pre-84, British Leyland when effectively nationalised, British Rail, none of the above make for fond memories when mildly inebriated.
Many large industries and public utilities were nationalised between1946 and the early 1950s, how much better did things get before the 1970s winter of discontent and the 1980s privatisations and in which industry/utility?
Randy Winkman said:
Collectingbrass said:
98elise said:
No, it was a dire service. Also you had to rent your phone from them, and you were not allowed to add extensions around the house. You had the choice of one phone, which later became a choice of two!
Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
Be fair, you could have it in a choice of three colours, depending on what was available...Elsewhere in the world you could buy a phone in just about any shape and colour you wanted because the consumer had a choice.
But I'd say that was not an inevitability of it being public owned. Things could be public owned and deliver a good service. I think that's the trick looking forwards.
https://twitter.com/theboysmithy/status/1750492453...
Reservoir creation appears to have promptly stopped after privatisation.
Reservoir creation appears to have promptly stopped after privatisation.
Digga said:
See also the EA. Farmer ignores instructions and dredges a few hundred yards of river and gets jailed. Water firms pump st into rivers and coastal resorts, on an industrial scale and not a sole ends up in the dock.
The UK taxpayers are funding rafts of quangos that spend 3 days a week on flexi time doing absolutely fk all. It’s a shambles and a disgrace.
"EA funding cut by 50% over the last 10 years"t into rivers and coastal resorts, on an industrial scale and not a sole ends up in the dock.The UK taxpayers are funding rafts of quangos that spend 3 days a week on flexi time doing absolutely f
k all. It’s a shambles and a disgrace.[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/water-pollution-sewage-environment-agency-funding-b2154848.html[URL/]
This probably hasn't helped but even with the budget it does have, more could and should be done investigating polluters. There is a management failure at EA top level, trying to do more for less. They should concentrate on the basics and at least get that right before getting too ambitious.
Meanwhile, Thames Water are set to invest nearly £19bn in their operations between now and 2030.
glazbagun said:
https://twitter.com/theboysmithy/status/1750492453...
Reservoir creation appears to have promptly stopped after privatisation.
Do they have the right to compulsory purchase land for reservoir purposes?Reservoir creation appears to have promptly stopped after privatisation.
xx99xx said:
"EA funding cut by 50% over the last 10 years"
[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/water-pollution-sewage-environment-agency-funding-b2154848.html[URL/]
This probably hasn't helped but even with the budget it does have, more could and should be done investigating polluters. There is a management failure at EA top level, trying to do more for less. They should concentrate on the basics and at least get that right before getting too ambitious.
Meanwhile, Thames Water are set to invest nearly £19bn in their operations between now and 2030.
A number of people reported persistent and obvious pollution of a stream running through a park in Greater Manchester into the River Tame. [URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/water-pollution-sewage-environment-agency-funding-b2154848.html[URL/]
This probably hasn't helped but even with the budget it does have, more could and should be done investigating polluters. There is a management failure at EA top level, trying to do more for less. They should concentrate on the basics and at least get that right before getting too ambitious.
Meanwhile, Thames Water are set to invest nearly £19bn in their operations between now and 2030.
The Environment Agency did absolutely nothing.
People involved their local MP.
He wrote to the EA demanding an explanation.
This is what they fobbed him off with.
Still happening the following January.
Still, in fact, happening this month.
Essentially, polluting waterways has been decriminalised.
eharding said:
As far as I can tell, the largest Thames Water shareholders are the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System, China's sovereign wealth fund, the Universities Superannuation Scheme, and Abu Dhabi's Infinity.
If it was allowed to fail, Bing's AI rendering of the outcome looks like this. HTH.
The people who primarily caused the debt spiral got out in about 2016/2017, Macquarie Group. They got paid.If it was allowed to fail, Bing's AI rendering of the outcome looks like this. HTH.
Now all the debt can be nationalised.
Remember which political group did this.
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