Thames Water- Finished?
Discussion
Ian Geary said:
It's the age old argument of privatisation
Yes: money has to be spent if you want something to happen. Be it from bill payers or taxpayer (who are the same anyway in the round)
But the balance is the "reward" to shareholders versus the "efficiency premium"of the private sector.
Do we know this? I don't see how it's possible to calculate, so people largely base it on their gut feeling/politics / how they were brought up.
I was a kid when things were privatised so have no real memory if things were the "good old days" or "bad old days".
But I think we can agree wealth leaving London bill payers into to Canada, dubai etc is lost to the UK economy.
If it is the puported £72bn of reward, I would be happy if improvements of at least £72bn or more were delivered by TW from shareholder investment, other things being equal of course.
I think that's the figure for the whole water industry, not just TW.Yes: money has to be spent if you want something to happen. Be it from bill payers or taxpayer (who are the same anyway in the round)
But the balance is the "reward" to shareholders versus the "efficiency premium"of the private sector.
Do we know this? I don't see how it's possible to calculate, so people largely base it on their gut feeling/politics / how they were brought up.
I was a kid when things were privatised so have no real memory if things were the "good old days" or "bad old days".
But I think we can agree wealth leaving London bill payers into to Canada, dubai etc is lost to the UK economy.
If it is the puported £72bn of reward, I would be happy if improvements of at least £72bn or more were delivered by TW from shareholder investment, other things being equal of course.
s1962a said:
How it is to be a multi-billion £ corporation in trouble, you can ask your creditors to "not to take any action as it explores its options." and not be laughed out of town while the bailiffs come through your door and take your sofa away along with your collection of Thunderbirds DVDs.I don't see the issue. The Government and us (the public) will just raise extra money to cover their shortfalls and negligence. Mean while they continue to pollute the rivers and waters, and neglect to fix leaks properly alongside raising bills once again.
... hang on a second... :-\
... hang on a second... :-\
Ian Geary said:
I was a kid when things were privatised so have no real memory if things were the "good old days" or "bad old days".
Bad old days. Things improved in terms of water quality. They’ve only really gone down the s
tter since the Conservatives decided not to regulate the industry anymore. You can get the outcome you want in public or private ownership, but if it’s private you absolutely must not give an inch in regulation because they’ll have your trousers down and laugh at you.
It does look as if financial regulation of the industry failed long before environmental regulation did, mind. Did nobody understand what was going on?
otolith said:
It does look as if financial regulation of the industry failed long before environmental regulation did, mind. Did nobody understand what was going on?
No, because the water regulator thought they were regulating the water aspects of the job. The financial aspects were either ignored or at least certainty not understood until the damage was done. otolith said:
Ian Geary said:
I was a kid when things were privatised so have no real memory if things were the "good old days" or "bad old days".
Bad old days. Things improved in terms of water quality. They’ve only really gone down the stter since the Conservatives decided not to regulate the industry anymore. You can get the outcome you want in public or private ownership, but if it’s private you absolutely must not give an inch in regulation because they’ll have your trousers down and laugh at you.
It does look as if financial regulation of the industry failed long before environmental regulation did, mind. Did nobody understand what was going on?
Condi said:
otolith said:
It does look as if financial regulation of the industry failed long before environmental regulation did, mind. Did nobody understand what was going on?
No, because the water regulator thought they were regulating the water aspects of the job. The financial aspects were either ignored or at least certainty not understood until the damage was done. It really doesn’t matter.
Probably it will go bust.
Possibly the government will own it briefly and make money when it is resold, or possibly there will be a pre-pack admin.
Either way, the current equity and debt will take the pain when it gets put back into a sustainable form with right sized debt.
Ofwat doing exactly the right thing so far.
borcy said:
Condi said:
otolith said:
It does look as if financial regulation of the industry failed long before environmental regulation did, mind. Did nobody understand what was going on?
No, because the water regulator thought they were regulating the water aspects of the job. The financial aspects were either ignored or at least certainty not understood until the damage was done. Bonefish Blues said:
It was the other way round. They have a duty, and the powers to prevent the payment of dividends if their level means that there's inadequate investment in the supply system.
There haven’t been any divis since 2017. The mistakes were made years ago by people long gone from TW and Ofwat.The losers, who should have known better, will be the pension funds and investors who bought an overleveraged bag of spanners.
loafer123 said:
Bonefish Blues said:
It was the other way round. They have a duty, and the powers to prevent the payment of dividends if their level means that there's inadequate investment in the supply system.
There haven’t been any divis since 2017. The mistakes were made years ago by people long gone from TW and Ofwat.The losers, who should have known better, will be the pension funds and investors who bought an overleveraged bag of spanners.
Bonefish Blues said:
loafer123 said:
Bonefish Blues said:
It was the other way round. They have a duty, and the powers to prevent the payment of dividends if their level means that there's inadequate investment in the supply system.
There haven’t been any divis since 2017. The mistakes were made years ago by people long gone from TW and Ofwat.The losers, who should have known better, will be the pension funds and investors who bought an overleveraged bag of spanners.
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