Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[Oilchange]

captain_cynic said:

Oilchange said:

2xChevrons said:

Don't. Talk. st.

The NSDAP didn't 'sweep up both ends of the spectrum'.

That was the intention, whether they voted for then Nazis isn’t what I meant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

‘The renaming of the German Worker's Party (DAP) to the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP) was partially driven by a desire to draw upon both left-wing and right-wing ideals, with "Socialist" and "Workers'" appealing to the left, and "National" and "German" appealing to the right.’


So I wasn’t talking st, thanks, corporal.

LoL,

It's obvious that you didn't even read your own link.

The first paragraph says they were pretty much exclusively far right before they became popular.

So you're definitely talking st.

I didn't say they weren’t far right I said:
‘Even though Hitlers totalitarian party the ‘National Socialists’ swept up both ends of the spectrum to confuse the st out of any extremists…’

And I read it all thanks

[andyA700]

tangerine_sedge said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

We have had labour, and tory governments since the last war, and neither have been any good for the working people of the UK.

You must have missed the bit where they set up the Welfare state, massively improved the housing stock, improved working conditions in every industry through various workplace acts, and ensured that everyone was eligible for holidays/sick pay/maternity pay/minimum pay and redundancy conditions and pay.

But other than that, what have the Romans governments done for the working man?

I totally agree with your post, but that was "Old Labour", who were genuinely good and stood up for the poor and the working class. Unfortunately, everything changed for the worse, when Tony Blair (who I voted for) got in. He allied himself to the Neo Conservatives in the US, went along with Bush and co into the debacle which was Iraq, was involved in the MP's expenses scandal in 2008 (his financial records were shredded) and then handed the reins to Gordon Brown, who clearly hated the working class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parli...

[tangerine_sedge]

andyA700 said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

We have had labour, and tory governments since the last war, and neither have been any good for the working people of the UK.

You must have missed the bit where they set up the Welfare state, massively improved the housing stock, improved working conditions in every industry through various workplace acts, and ensured that everyone was eligible for holidays/sick pay/maternity pay/minimum pay and redundancy conditions and pay.

But other than that, what have the Romans governments done for the working man?

I totally agree with your post, but that was "Old Labour", who were genuinely good and stood up for the poor and the working class. Unfortunately, everything changed for the worse, when Tony Blair (who I voted for) got in. He allied himself to the Neo Conservatives in the US, went along with Bush and co into the debacle which was Iraq, was involved in the MP's expenses scandal in 2008 (his financial records were shredded) and then handed the reins to Gordon Brown, who clearly hated the working class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parli...

Let's see what new-new-Labour end up being? BTW, I didn't vote for Blair, so it's your fault

Anyway, I posted that response due to PPPs absurd attempt at proclaiming "they're all the same" (obviously to imply that Reform will be different), when it's clear that conditions for the working person have significantly improved since WW2.

[Crippo]

Let’s be honest, it’s the Civil Servcie who are in charge and run the Country. If they don’t like what the Politians are doing they engineer them out. It’s next to impossible to fire them and next to that it’s impossible to get proper change. Brexit was a complete mistake for them but they did their best to make it as ineffectual as possible. The Bank of England, OBR and Captains of Industry are are extremely Pro immigration, so ending freedom of movement just forced them to open up to the rest of the World.
Nobody is addressing the Ponzi scheme that is our Pensions and Welfare state and this is why the aforementioned just want a larger and larger population. In truth I can’t see anyone standing for election on a Manifesto of addressing that, so population expansion and all the horror that brings is going to continue. The Tories and Labour are fully signed up to this so I couldn’t care less which one is in power. Everything I hate most about Labour has happened under the Conservatives…..Authoritarian Lockdown, workery, high taxes, running down the Military and probably loads of others I can’t be bothered to list. It will probably be even worse under Labour but none of them are going to reverse it.

So I really don’t care what Reform put in their Manifesto they are people most like me so I will vote for them.

[iphonedyou]

Crippo said:

So I really don’t care what Reform put in their Manifesto they are people most like me so I will vote for them.

That's one way of doing it, I guess.

[Pan Pan Pan]

tangerine_sedge said:

andyA700 said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

We have had labour, and tory governments since the last war, and neither have been any good for the working people of the UK.

You must have missed the bit where they set up the Welfare state, massively improved the housing stock, improved working conditions in every industry through various workplace acts, and ensured that everyone was eligible for holidays/sick pay/maternity pay/minimum pay and redundancy conditions and pay.

But other than that, what have the Romans governments done for the working man?

I totally agree with your post, but that was "Old Labour", who were genuinely good and stood up for the poor and the working class. Unfortunately, everything changed for the worse, when Tony Blair (who I voted for) got in. He allied himself to the Neo Conservatives in the US, went along with Bush and co into the debacle which was Iraq, was involved in the MP's expenses scandal in 2008 (his financial records were shredded) and then handed the reins to Gordon Brown, who clearly hated the working class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parli...

Let's see what new-new-Labour end up being? BTW, I didn't vote for Blair, so it's your fault

Anyway, I posted that response due to PPPs absurd attempt at proclaiming "they're all the same" (obviously to imply that Reform will be different), when it's clear that conditions for the working person have significantly improved since WW2.

I have not, nor ever contended, that conditions for the working person, have not been significantly improved since WW2.
However since the tories have been in office, for longer than labour, since WW2, this must largely be down to tory administrations.
The truly absurd, is you believing that labour will be A: better than the tories, and B: better than new/old/new labour etc.
You really have got a bad case of totally red tinted, blinkered tribalitis, if you believe that `This' time labour will be better. That is exactly the same as thinking that `next' time it is the tories who will be better. Not to mention insanity, since the true sign of insanity, is doing the same thing, over and over again, yet somehow expecting a different result, which is `exactly' what you are doing.

[Killboy]

Pan Pan Pan, considering this is a Reform UK thread, we're hearing a lot about Labour from you, and sometimes the Tories. How do you think Reform would fair?

[heebeegeetee]

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have not, nor ever contended, that conditions for the working person, have not been significantly improved since WW2.
However since the tories have been in office, for longer than labour, since WW2, this must largely be down to tory administrations.
The truly absurd, is you believing that labour will be A: better than the tories, and B: better than new/old/new labour etc.
You really have got a bad case of totally red tinted, blinkered tribalitis, if you believe that `This' time labour will be better. That is exactly the same as thinking that `next' time it is the tories who will be better. Not to mention insanity, since the true sign of insanity, is doing the same thing, over and over again, yet somehow expecting a different result, which is `exactly' what you are doing.

We have a FPTP system, we can do nothing other than vote the same people in. Candidates can promise whatever the hell they like, they can't be held to account for another 5 years.

There's a reason why only Belarus and Russia favour this system.

[tangerine_sedge]

Pan Pan Pan said:

tangerine_sedge said:

andyA700 said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

We have had labour, and tory governments since the last war, and neither have been any good for the working people of the UK.

You must have missed the bit where they set up the Welfare state, massively improved the housing stock, improved working conditions in every industry through various workplace acts, and ensured that everyone was eligible for holidays/sick pay/maternity pay/minimum pay and redundancy conditions and pay.

But other than that, what have the Romans governments done for the working man?

I totally agree with your post, but that was "Old Labour", who were genuinely good and stood up for the poor and the working class. Unfortunately, everything changed for the worse, when Tony Blair (who I voted for) got in. He allied himself to the Neo Conservatives in the US, went along with Bush and co into the debacle which was Iraq, was involved in the MP's expenses scandal in 2008 (his financial records were shredded) and then handed the reins to Gordon Brown, who clearly hated the working class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parli...

Let's see what new-new-Labour end up being? BTW, I didn't vote for Blair, so it's your fault

Anyway, I posted that response due to PPPs absurd attempt at proclaiming "they're all the same" (obviously to imply that Reform will be different), when it's clear that conditions for the working person have significantly improved since WW2.

I have not, nor ever contended, that conditions for the working person, have not been significantly improved since WW2.
However since the tories have been in office, for longer than labour, since WW2, this must largely be down to tory administrations.
The truly absurd, is you believing that labour will be A: better than the tories, and B: better than new/old/new labour etc.
You really have got a bad case of totally red tinted, blinkered tribalitis, if you believe that `This' time labour will be better. That is exactly the same as thinking that `next' time it is the tories who will be better. Not to mention insanity, since the true sign of insanity, is doing the same thing, over and over again, yet somehow expecting a different result, which is `exactly' what you are doing.

Never said it? I've put your own words in bold to help you out.

Anyway, it's hardly tribalitis when I've voted for 2 different parties in GEs (Tory & Libdems) and only ever voted Labour once (in the last local election). I certainly don't think Labour will solve all our ills, but Reform are not a serious party and seems to be full of racists.

[Randy Winkman]

Crippo said:

Let’s be honest, it’s the Civil Servcie who are in charge and run the Country.

I've been a civil servant for 39 years 11 months and 2 weeks (gifts welcome) and wish it was like that. Some things might get done properly.

[Bill]

Randy Winkman said:

I've been a civil servant for 39 years 11 months and 2 weeks (gifts welcome) and wish it was like that. Some things might get done properly.

You would say that! You are the blob!!

[xstian]

Randy Winkman said:

Crippo said:

Let’s be honest, it’s the Civil Servcie who are in charge and run the Country.

I've been a civil servant for 39 years 11 months and 2 weeks (gifts welcome) and wish it was like that. Some things might get done properly.

It funny, but I'm sure it used to be Brussels that was running the show and that was why politicians couldn't do there jobs?

[S600BSB]

Crippo said:

Let’s be honest, it’s the Civil Servcie who are in charge and run the Country. If they don’t like what the Politians are doing they engineer them out. It’s next to impossible to fire them and next to that it’s impossible to get proper change. Brexit was a complete mistake for them but they did their best to make it as ineffectual as possible. The Bank of England, OBR and Captains of Industry are are extremely Pro immigration, so ending freedom of movement just forced them to open up to the rest of the World.
Nobody is addressing the Ponzi scheme that is our Pensions and Welfare state and this is why the aforementioned just want a larger and larger population. In truth I can’t see anyone standing for election on a Manifesto of addressing that, so population expansion and all the horror that brings is going to continue. The Tories and Labour are fully signed up to this so I couldn’t care less which one is in power. Everything I hate most about Labour has happened under the Conservatives…..Authoritarian Lockdown, workery, high taxes, running down the Military and probably loads of others I can’t be bothered to list. It will probably be even worse under Labour but none of them are going to reverse it.

So I really don’t care what Reform put in their Manifesto they are people most like me so I will vote for them.

You certainly do seem a good fit for Reform.

[Randy Winkman]

xstian said:

Randy Winkman said:

Crippo said:

Let’s be honest, it’s the Civil Servcie who are in charge and run the Country.

I've been a civil servant for 39 years 11 months and 2 weeks (gifts welcome) and wish it was like that. Some things might get done properly.

It funny, but I'm sure it used to be Brussels that was running the show and that was why politicians couldn't do there jobs?

Yes - politicians and their supporters always looking to pass the blame.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Killboy said:

Pan Pan Pan, considering this is a Reform UK thread, we're hearing a lot about Labour from you, and sometimes the Tories. How do you think Reform would fair?

What is the matter? is the truth making you uncomfortable?
I know almost nothing about Reform, so I could not even make a vague projection, about how they would fare, if they got into government. (And yes, fare, is how it should be spelt).
But if you think you can talk about Reform, in a vacuum, devoid of any reference, or comparison, with the other parties on offer, then fill your boots!

[Pan Pan Pan]

Randy Winkman said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

smn159 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Randy Winkman said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

We have had labour, and tory governments since the last war, and neither have been any good for the working people of the UK.

You must have missed the bit where they set up the Welfare state, massively improved the housing stock, improved working conditions in every industry through various workplace acts, and ensured that everyone was eligible for holidays/sick pay/maternity pay/minimum pay and redundancy conditions and pay.

But other than that, what have the Romans governments done for the working man?

And you have just confirmed `your' blind bias towards labour.
You must have missed, who it was, who set up the industries you mention, in the first place, giving most of the rest of us the chance to earn a living, that few who support labour would ever set up.
The moment any one works hard to make a good living, labour are there, finding myriad new ways of taking taxes off those who work hard. Even their party name is dishonest, designed to make the hard of thinking believe that just because they `work', labour must be the party for them.
It does not matter whether a person is sweeping the factory floor, or is in the boardroom, directing the company. BOTH are `working' for a living.
The difference between where they are, is dependent on many factors including, intelligence, health, work ethic, and in many cases a willingness to risk their own wealth, to set the company up in the first place.
There wouldn't even be the welfare state, improved housing stock, a place where working conditions are improved, holidays, sick pay. maternity pay, and redundancy pay, if the businesses where people work had not been set up in the first place. Governments only take money it is the private sector that makes the money that everyone depends on.
Labour are the party of the shirker, not the worker.
The idea behind the welfare state was a good one, But it has been abused by so many, it is now often a joke, and poke in the eye for those who do work hard and who don't want be dependent on the state.
Those who don't work or work very little are doubly bad for the country, because not only do they take the most out of the state funds, they are also the ones who tend to contribute the least.

Sorry to get personal but you are utterly ridiculous. "Blind bias"? Do you not see that's you? Are you for real?

Since it is you who seems happy to indulge in blind bias. Do you not see, that that, is the exact description of you too?

He's right though. Your posts are word salads of repeated slogans that you believe and probably have always believed and always will believe, impervious to any evidence.

And you are just another case in point. Just as the comments tthat those who support labour regurgitate, in support of their party, are based on rubbish put out by Starmer and Co and `you' are falling for it! Again!

I cant speak for anyone else but I certainly dont have "a party" and am not that optimistic about how Labour or SKS might perform. Not at all. But I just can't wait to get rid of the Tories.

That is how I felt when I voted labour. But labour proved itself to be just as disastrous, as the outgoing John Major administration, and just as disastrous, as the current tory administration.
So if both labour and tory governments have proved to be disastrous for the UK time and time again (Which they categorically have) who do you believe people should vote for at the next GE?
The Monster raving loony party is looking like a good option. At least `their' party name is honest, unlike the tories, labour and in particular the liberal democrats.

[Pan Pan Pan]

tangerine_sedge said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

tangerine_sedge said:

andyA700 said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

We have had labour, and tory governments since the last war, and neither have been any good for the working people of the UK.

You must have missed the bit where they set up the Welfare state, massively improved the housing stock, improved working conditions in every industry through various workplace acts, and ensured that everyone was eligible for holidays/sick pay/maternity pay/minimum pay and redundancy conditions and pay.

But other than that, what have the Romans governments done for the working man?

I totally agree with your post, but that was "Old Labour", who were genuinely good and stood up for the poor and the working class. Unfortunately, everything changed for the worse, when Tony Blair (who I voted for) got in. He allied himself to the Neo Conservatives in the US, went along with Bush and co into the debacle which was Iraq, was involved in the MP's expenses scandal in 2008 (his financial records were shredded) and then handed the reins to Gordon Brown, who clearly hated the working class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parli...

Let's see what new-new-Labour end up being? BTW, I didn't vote for Blair, so it's your fault

Anyway, I posted that response due to PPPs absurd attempt at proclaiming "they're all the same" (obviously to imply that Reform will be different), when it's clear that conditions for the working person have significantly improved since WW2.

I have not, nor ever contended, that conditions for the working person, have not been significantly improved since WW2.
However since the tories have been in office, for longer than labour, since WW2, this must largely be down to tory administrations.
The truly absurd, is you believing that labour will be A: better than the tories, and B: better than new/old/new labour etc.
You really have got a bad case of totally red tinted, blinkered tribalitis, if you believe that `This' time labour will be better. That is exactly the same as thinking that `next' time it is the tories who will be better. Not to mention insanity, since the true sign of insanity, is doing the same thing, over and over again, yet somehow expecting a different result, which is `exactly' what you are doing.

Never said it? I've put your own words in bold to help you out.

Anyway, it's hardly tribalitis when I've voted for 2 different parties in GEs (Tory & Libdems) and only ever voted Labour once (in the last local election). I certainly don't think Labour will solve all our ills, but Reform are not a serious party and seems to be full of racists.

Where did I say that conditions for the working person have `not' improved since WW2? I have literally never said that. It was you who said that.
It is your blind belief, that if we get rid of the disastrous tories and replace it the equally disastrous labour party it will all be better, when history, and common sense makes it clear it will just be more of the same.
As for reform, I know next to nothing about them' but I certainly cannot take what appears to be `your' massively biased view of them as being anywhere near accurate.

[Tom8]

As each day passes Reform and its supporters seem more like Corbyn and Momentum. They all have a cult leader, the great one they all follow. They all believe in conspiracy theories about "bankers" and Jews etc who control everything. Two cheeks. One arse. Or maybe two?

[Killboy]

Pan Pan Pan said:

What is the matter? is the truth making you uncomfortable?
I know almost nothing about Reform, so I could not even make a vague projection, about how they would fare, if they got into government. (And yes, fare, is how it should be spelt).
But if you think you can talk about Reform, in a vacuum, devoid of any reference, or comparison, with the other parties on offer, then fill your boots!

But I thought they were all the same, and you're just the unbiased one here? Doesn't seem very unbiased to me.

Do you reference reform and their unattainable policies in the labour thread?

Are you going to vote for reform?

[Bill]

Pan Pan Pan said:

As for reform, I know next to nothing about them'

Ok...

Pan Pan Pan said:

but I certainly cannot take what appears to be `your' massively biased view of them as being anywhere near accurate.

Riiight...

You've made an awful lot of posts on this thread "not in defence" of a party you know nothing about.