Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[bad company]

Dave200 said:

Does anyone really care about UKIP/Reclaim/Reform/Brexit, or whatever they've rebranded themselves as this year? They are on track to win 20 or so seats at most, with a smaller share of vote than the unelectable Lib Dems. They are a laughing stock in mainstream political terms, and mostly a home for voters who don't think that a party who want to send immigrants to Rwanda are racist enough for them. I'm sure they'll disappear and rebrand after another embarrassing election campaign founded on a manifesto that looks like it was written as part of a secondary school project on WW2 Germany.

Ben Habib is British-Pakistani, born in Pakistan. Is he racist?

[Dagnir]

abzmike said:

Inerview on TV this morning....

Julia Hartley Brewer, "You would leave asylum seekers to drown in the channel?"

Ben Habib, "Absolutely"

JHB, "That is not a policy that a civilised country should endorse"

BH, "Why is that uncivilised?"

JHB, "Because we don't leave people to drown.. I don't want these people here, but I wouldn't leave them to drown.. I don't think anyone in the border force or Royal Navy that would do that"

BH, "I'm afraid border force means using force at the border"

So, Reform endorses letting people drown in the channel. How can anyone vote for them, unless they also want migrants to drown.

That's their choice and the risk they take. We have no moral obligation to assist criminals coming in illegally to loot our country.


Leave them floating and they have 2 choices; go back or stay floating. Either way that's their choice and it should be our choice to protect our borders.


Otherwise it's an incentive like it is now...."get far enough and they will escort you in safely".....that's not a deterrent, that's an invitation.

[crankedup5]

cheesejunkie said:

crankedup5 said:

What is the point of voting for Labour, their track record indicates uselessness in every direction over the past 50 years. Vote Labour when they op tell the Country not to expect any change of a positive direction. Starmer continues to ‘flip flop’ unable to make up his mind, terrified of his own decisions

You do realise that the tories have been in power for most of those 50 years. If you want to hunt down fkups understand your prey’s footprints.

Yup I’m aware of which Parties have won G.E. and yes Tory Party is top of the charts. Being best of a crap choice has held up well for those decades, run out of road now, is it a roundabout or crossroads ahead.
I’m looking at Labour being so weak that y ere able to break the Tory dominance and Tory for taking the pee eu to their electoral strength.

[Rufus Stone]

crankedup5 said:

I’m looking at Labour being so weak that y ere able to break the Tory dominance and Tory for taking the pee eu to their electoral strength.

What?

[President Merkin]

Rufus Stone said:

What?

1/2 price lunch day for pensioners at Spoons?

[crankedup5]

smn159 said:

crankedup5 said:

What is the point of voting for Labour, their track record indicates uselessness in every direction over the past 50 years. Vote Labour when they op tell the Country not to expect any change of a positive direction. Starmer continues to ‘flip flop’ unable to make up his mind, terrified of his own decisions

'But Labour...' again

This thread is excellent - the comedy value of thinking that a bunch of illiterate Facebook racists will somehow be a 'breath of fresh air' and lead the country to the sunlit uplands and / or force the Tories to become more racist is great

Your being unable to defend the point I raised against Labour says all. And that’s the problem that Labour have. I have repeatedly mentioned, they have no plans, no commitment, no ambition and it seems no desire to improve the Country. Why vote for that ?

[CraigyMc]

Rufus Stone said:

crankedup5 said:

I’m looking at Labour being so weak that y ere able to break the Tory dominance and Tory for taking the pee eu to their electoral strength.

What?

Even for cranked that one's pretty unreadable. I genuinely don't know what he's writing.

[Rufus Stone]

President Merkin said:

1/2 price lunch day for pensioners at Spoons?

[Mrr T]

Dagnir said:

abzmike said:

Inerview on TV this morning....

Julia Hartley Brewer, "You would leave asylum seekers to drown in the channel?"

Ben Habib, "Absolutely"

JHB, "That is not a policy that a civilised country should endorse"

BH, "Why is that uncivilised?"

JHB, "Because we don't leave people to drown.. I don't want these people here, but I wouldn't leave them to drown.. I don't think anyone in the border force or Royal Navy that would do that"

BH, "I'm afraid border force means using force at the border"

So, Reform endorses letting people drown in the channel. How can anyone vote for them, unless they also want migrants to drown.

That's their choice and the risk they take. We have no moral obligation to assist criminals coming in illegally to loot our country.


Leave them floating and they have 2 choices; go back or stay floating. Either way that's their choice and it should be our choice to protect our borders.


Otherwise it's an incentive like it is now...."get far enough and they will escort you in safely".....that's not a deterrent, that's an invitation.

Most people, fortunately, have moral scruples which mean they would do all they can to help those at risk. Some obviously do not. I would welcome a deportation scheme to see those with no morals sent somewhere unpleasant. Perhaps we could have a list so that it we see one of them being beaten up we would know not to phone the emergency services.

[heebeegeetee]

bad company said:

From what I’ve seen so far intelligence doesn’t seem to figure highly among Labour voters. Busy finding ways of spending other people’s money. Politics of envy imo.

Key word being spending.

In contrast many Conservatives have found ways of simply taking other peoples money, during a time of national, indeed global, crisis and rather than spend they remove the money from the country buy off-shoring, purely for their own use and gain.

I'd rather the money was spent on the nation rather than taken and offshored for personal gain.

[crankedup5]

Killboy said:

So, let me get this right.

People voting for Labour are "fkwits", because while Labour has at least some substance in their manifesto they have a poor track record from ages ago.

But people voting for a party with meaningless manifestos that do not need to hold up scrutiny should not be considered just a little bit dim - because if they got in they'd somehow figure it out?

Reform U.K. will not form a Government this time around, we know this. However, the polling stats, such as they are, indicate a steady upward interest in Reform U.K. Being how poor their proposals are in their opponents view it really does demonstrate how poor the two major Parties offerings are. Labour have had years to form some interesting and dynamic proposals, and yet it seems their cupboard is bare. It really feels like a case of ‘we are not quite as poor as Tory’.
Reform U.K. will build a base from 2024 ready for 2029-30.

[crankedup5]

bad company said:

abzmike said:

Inerview on TV this morning....

Julia Hartley Brewer, "You would leave asylum seekers to drown in the channel?"

Ben Habib, "Absolutely"

JHB, "That is not a policy that a civilised country should endorse"

BH, "Why is that uncivilised?"

JHB, "Because we don't leave people to drown.. I don't want these people here, but I wouldn't leave them to drown.. I don't think anyone in the border force or Royal Navy that would do that"

BH, "I'm afraid border force means using force at the border"

So, Reform endorses letting people drown in the channel. How can anyone vote for them, unless they also want migrants to drown.

I didn’t hear it but here’s BH’s response:-

I said that migrants who jumped overboard when challenged in the Channel could be rescued in any number of ways, one of which was to give them another boat. But, if they put themselves deliberately in harms way we cannot be held responsible.

I was waiting to hear / read of the actual input from the interview, rather than the toxic misrepresentations presented earlier.

[Rufus Stone]

crankedup5 said:

Reform U.K. will not form a Government this time around, we know this. However, the polling stats, such as they are, indicate a steady upward interest in Reform U.K. Being how poor their proposals are in their opponents view it really does demonstrate how poor the two major Parties offerings are. Labour have had years to form some interesting and dynamic proposals, and yet it seems their cupboard is bare. It really feels like a case of ‘we are not quite as poor as Tory’.
Reform U.K. will build a base from 2024 ready for 2029-30.

Reform will not form a Government, ever. There are insufficient racists and little Englanders about.

[Dave200]

bad company said:

Dave200 said:

Does anyone really care about UKIP/Reclaim/Reform/Brexit, or whatever they've rebranded themselves as this year? They are on track to win 20 or so seats at most, with a smaller share of vote than the unelectable Lib Dems. They are a laughing stock in mainstream political terms, and mostly a home for voters who don't think that a party who want to send immigrants to Rwanda are racist enough for them. I'm sure they'll disappear and rebrand after another embarrassing election campaign founded on a manifesto that looks like it was written as part of a secondary school project on WW2 Germany.

Ben Habib is British-Pakistani, born in Pakistan. Is he racist?

Yes. This might be mind-blowing for you to learn, but it's possible for anyone irrespective of skin colour and country of birth to be racist or xenophobe. For example, ask the Brits who've emigrated to Southern Spain how they feel about migrants from North Africa. Just because they weren't born in that country doesn't mean they can't be xenophobic towards other foreigners to that country, and this Habib chap appears no different.

Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 24th April 14:19

[Dave200]

crankedup5 said:

Killboy said:

So, let me get this right.

People voting for Labour are "fkwits", because while Labour has at least some substance in their manifesto they have a poor track record from ages ago.

But people voting for a party with meaningless manifestos that do not need to hold up scrutiny should not be considered just a little bit dim - because if they got in they'd somehow figure it out?

Reform U.K. will not form a Government this time around, we know this. However, the polling stats, such as they are, indicate a steady upward interest in Reform U.K. Being how poor their proposals are in their opponents view it really does demonstrate how poor the two major Parties offerings are. Labour have had years to form some interesting and dynamic proposals, and yet it seems their cupboard is bare. It really feels like a case of ‘we are not quite as poor as Tory’.
Reform U.K. will build a base from 2024 ready for 2029-30.

Reform could easily end up without a single seat, based on current projections. How will they build a base from that?

[Mr Penguin]

Mrr T said:

Most people, fortunately, have moral scruples which mean they would do all they can to help those at risk. Some obviously do not. I would welcome a deportation scheme to see those with no morals sent somewhere unpleasant. Perhaps we could have a list so that it we see one of them being beaten up we would know not to phone the emergency services.

Mitigating the results of someone else's risky behaviour just introduces moral hazard and encourages more people to do the risky behaviour.

The numbers don't work in this instance but sinking every boat crossing tonight would stop all crossings immediately and nobody else would drown accidentally. Obviously there are other downsides to doing something this extreme, but you get the point.

[crankedup5]

Rufus Stone said:

crankedup5 said:

Reform U.K. will not form a Government this time around, we know this. However, the polling stats, such as they are, indicate a steady upward interest in Reform U.K. Being how poor their proposals are in their opponents view it really does demonstrate how poor the two major Parties offerings are. Labour have had years to form some interesting and dynamic proposals, and yet it seems their cupboard is bare. It really feels like a case of ‘we are not quite as poor as Tory’.
Reform U.K. will build a base from 2024 ready for 2029-30.

Reform will not form a Government, ever. There are insufficient racists and little Englanders about.

Never say never, once the younger generation, those that haven’t lived through a Labour Government cycle, witness the complete lash up that the Labour loonies inflict upon the Country they will need a new Party to entrust, step forward Reform UK

[crankedup5]

CraigyMc said:

Rufus Stone said:

crankedup5 said:

I’m looking at Labour being so weak that y ere able to break the Tory dominance and Tory for taking the pee eu to their electoral strength.

What?

Even for cranked that one's pretty unreadable. I genuinely don't know what he's writing.

no, I can’t make it out myself either.

[Rufus Stone]

crankedup5 said:

Never say never, once the younger generation, those that haven’t lived through a Labour Government cycle, witness the complete lash up that the Labour loonies inflict upon the Country they will need a new Party to entrust, step forward Reform UK

It's saddening to know that you are totally serious.

I give young people more credit than that.

[Dave200]

crankedup5 said:

Rufus Stone said:

crankedup5 said:

Reform U.K. will not form a Government this time around, we know this. However, the polling stats, such as they are, indicate a steady upward interest in Reform U.K. Being how poor their proposals are in their opponents view it really does demonstrate how poor the two major Parties offerings are. Labour have had years to form some interesting and dynamic proposals, and yet it seems their cupboard is bare. It really feels like a case of ‘we are not quite as poor as Tory’.
Reform U.K. will build a base from 2024 ready for 2029-30.

Reform will not form a Government, ever. There are insufficient racists and little Englanders about.

Never say never, once the younger generation, those that haven’t lived through a Labour Government cycle, witness the complete lash up that the Labour loonies inflict upon the Country they will need a new Party to entrust, step forward Reform UK

Reform has practically no support in the under-50s at all. Less than 5% of under-50s would vote for them. Predicting a seismic shift in their voter profile feels ambitious, verging on ridiculous, on the basis of absolutely nothing other than your hatred of Labour.