Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12

[Mercdriver]

Decisions, decisions do I buy a bottle of fizz or a good bottle of malt to celebrate if they resign?

[cuprabob]

Mercdriver said:

Decisions, decisions do I buy a bottle of fizz or a good bottle of malt to celebrate if they resign?

There's two of them so you can buy both

[ScotHill]

biggles330d said:

1) make a noise, get in a huff, exit the agreement and step out of government, or

2) make a noise, get in a huff but swallow their pride and accept that they are a minority partner, can't have it all their own way and play the long game.

It's all too familiar to the Conservative / Lib Dem coalition. The Lib Dems picked option 1, flounced on the principles, their voters abandoned them and they evaporated into irrelevant white noise.

Didn't the LibDems swallow their pride and apologise that they couldn't deliver something (free tuition?) because they were a minority partner, and then the voters accused them of a big u-turn and that's why they didn't vote for them in the next election?

And also a lot of people thought if they were just getting a Conservative government then they may as well vote Con in the next election anyway, not realising that the LibDems probably kept a lot of the Cons extremes under control.

[reddiesel]

The Greens like the Lib Dem’s in the coalition with Cameron’s Conservatives have to accept Political Reality
A tail can only wag a dug so long

[biggles330d]

ScotHill said:

biggles330d said:

1) make a noise, get in a huff, exit the agreement and step out of government, or

2) make a noise, get in a huff but swallow their pride and accept that they are a minority partner, can't have it all their own way and play the long game.

It's all too familiar to the Conservative / Lib Dem coalition. The Lib Dems picked option 1, flounced on the principles, their voters abandoned them and they evaporated into irrelevant white noise.

Didn't the LibDems swallow their pride and apologise that they couldn't deliver something (free tuition?) because they were a minority partner, and then the voters accused them of a big u-turn and that's why they didn't vote for them in the next election?

And also a lot of people thought if they were just getting a Conservative government then they may as well vote Con in the next election anyway, not realising that the LibDems probably kept a lot of the Cons extremes under control.

You're probably right. I was a fan of the coalition because it smoothed off the extreme edges and nutters in both parties and forced them to compromise a fairly sensible centre-right ground (in my view). When the LibDem voters deserted them I was left scratching my head thinking how short sighted it was and what did they expect? Of course they weren't going to get everything they wanted but neither were the Cons. I can completely see the Greens voters and party members doing the same thing.

[rider73]

Some greens are playing a longer game... If they stick with the SNP and get tarnished and trounced at the next election it will set then back decades much like libdem , if they get out now and play a blame game on the SNP at the next election there's a slim chance labour might be them to get full power, even if not, they can at least stand alone campaigning and potentially keep their core voters.....
Suddenly staying in the SNP pockets for a few more months doesn't sound so appealing....

[irc]

Funny how Indy isn't a red line for the Greens now. A cynic might say they can see the next minority Holyeood govt being Labour and they are rearranging the deck chairs in advance of selling out to keep their ministerial salaries.

Incidentally can anyone tell me what trans politics has to do with the environment?

[hidetheelephants]

Nothing, which is I suspect why the Green party rep on QT was at pains to point out that Scottish Greens are nothing to do with them.

[wc98]

biggles330d said:

You're probably right. I was a fan of the coalition because it smoothed off the extreme edges and nutters in both parties and forced them to compromise a fairly sensible centre-right ground (in my view). When the LibDem voters deserted them I was left scratching my head thinking how short sighted it was and what did they expect? Of course they weren't going to get everything they wanted but neither were the Cons. I can completely see the Greens voters and party members doing the same thing.

The trouble with this situation is the SNP and the Greens are the nutters with no one to keep them in check at the moment.

[Klippie]

The greens turned from cuddly tree huggers to radical left wing extremists because of the sick twisted minds of the party leaders, I'll bet the SNP would have run a mile from this lot if they had a chance but needed their votes so had to get in bed with them.

The Greens pushed every one of the controversial bill's, one even unseated the very corner stone of the party...Sturgeon, they have been pulling the SNP's strings for a long time and now it would seem even they have had enough, if they get the chop then all hell will break loose and hopefully the SNP will implode.

[alangla]

Klippie said:

The greens turned from cuddly tree huggers to radical left wing extremists because of the sick twisted minds of the party leaders, I'll bet the SNP would have run a mile from this lot if they had a chance but needed their votes so had to get in bed with them.

The Greens pushed every one of the controversial bill's, one even unseated the very corner stone of the party...Sturgeon, they have been pulling the SNP's strings for a long time and now it would seem even they have had enough, if they get the chop then all hell will break loose and hopefully the SNP will implode.

It’s interesting that the Greens seem to be edging away from independence. This and the fact Scottish Labour seem to have also voted for most of the loony measures makes me wonder if the Greens, or at least their parliamentary leadership, are about to distance themselves from the SNP and attempt to hitch themselves to Sarwar’s wagon. He’d be an imbecile to agree to anything other than bill-by-bill agreements with them, but one might have said the same thing of Sturgeon prior to the Bute House agreement. One suspects the main policy concern in the parliamentary Scottish Green Party at the moment may be how to retain access to the ministerial Tesla despite the votes of both their grass roots in the immediate term and the country at large in 2026.

[Leithen]

Cult + Additional member system = Total fking disaster

[alangla]

Leithen said:

Cult + Additional member system = Total fking disaster

Donald Dewar’s legacy to Scotland. The parties have no interest in doing anything about it thanks to it effectively making their senior members almost unremovable.

[irc]

It was the additional member system that first got Nippy elected after previous failures. Say no more. Failed to get elected under FPTP in 1992, 1997, and 1999 before getting in on the list.

Any additional members should always have been voted based.

IE in Glasgow the first additional member should be to a party low on FPTP members but should go to the party candidate who (not elected under FPTP) got the most votes.

Nothing worse than MSPs who it is impossible to get rid of.

Edited by irc on Monday 22 April 08:00

[hidetheelephants]

Yes, the parties' control of the list has created cronyism and denies the voter the ability to get rid of deadwood.

[irc]

Effie on fire today.

"Despite having a Scottish father and a Scottish surname David Cameron understood nothing whatsoever about Scotland or Scottish politics. He didn’t grasp that granting a referendum would itself fuel Scottish nationalism."

"A single rogue poll I think created what came after the referendum. Scottish nationalists genuinely believed that they were going to win and losing by ten points was more than they could endure. It’s one thing to lose when you never had a chance, it’s something quite different to lose when you were certain that you would win. "

"Alex Salmond was tried for alleged crimes committed in the years leading up to the referendum and was acquitted. But those witnesses who later complained decided in 2013 or 2014 that it was more important to win the referendum than to tell the police about Alex Salmond’s behaviour. "

https://www.effiedeans.com/2024/04/and-lead-us-not...

[alangla]

irc said:

It was the additional member system that first got Nippy elected after previous failures. Say no more. Failed to get elected under FPTP in 1992, 1997, and 1999 before getting in on the list.

Any additional members should always have been voted based.

IE in Glasgow the first additional member should be to a party low on FPTP members but should go to the party candidate who (not elected under FPTP) got the most votes.

Nothing worse than MSPs who it is impossible to get rid of.

Edited by irc on Monday 22 April 08:00

I’ve often thought that something similar to the council with superconstituencies served by maybe 3-4 MSPs might work. The issue is that if you’ve got a good MSP and a couple of useless ones then the volume of casework for the good one could become overwhelming.

[vikingaero]

Viper201 said:

Useless wants to introduce 20mph speed limits across Scotland at a cost of £45 million no doubt 'encouraged' by Harvie and Slater.

Meanwhile in Wales, where the same limit has already been introduced, the Welsh Govt is backpedalling, following a 500,000 petition to the Senedd to abolish it, and it looks like around half the roads will revert to 30mph.

Sky rolling script tonight.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13318207/...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVgzbb7VApI - the comments are worth a read.

As one comment says, "Before he's voted out, he seems to be on a mission to make life as miserable as possible for the people of Scotland."

If Sturgeon was still in office, the Welsh 20mph speed limit would have been 19mph in Scotland - she has to go that extra covid mile.

[cuprabob]

vikingaero said:

Viper201 said:

Useless wants to introduce 20mph speed limits across Scotland at a cost of £45 million no doubt 'encouraged' by Harvie and Slater.

Meanwhile in Wales, where the same limit has already been introduced, the Welsh Govt is backpedalling, following a 500,000 petition to the Senedd to abolish it, and it looks like around half the roads will revert to 30mph.

Sky rolling script tonight.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13318207/...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVgzbb7VApI - the comments are worth a read.

As one comment says, "Before he's voted out, he seems to be on a mission to make life as miserable as possible for the people of Scotland."

If Sturgeon was still in office, the Welsh 20mph speed limit would have been 19mph in Scotland - she has to go that extra covid mile.

That would have been too simple it would have been 19mph is some council areas and 21mph in others.

To be honest I think they are using the potholes as a means to reduce speed.

[rider73]

twitterarti are showing pics of Sturgeon without a wedding ring........hmmmm