Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12

[NoddyonNitrous]

Rick_1138 said:

Good to see community notes tearing him a new one.

O/T, why do these twitter links never work for me? Even if I am logged into X at the time.

[matchmaker]

Winnie Ewing must be spinning in her grave. What a shambles of a party.

[Rick_1138]

NoddyonNitrous said:

Rick_1138 said:

Good to see community notes tearing him a new one.

O/T, why do these twitter links never work for me? Even if I am logged into X at the time.

Pass..?

[Vanden Saab]

Rick_1138 said:

57 Chevy said:

This man is not fit for office, not even the Post Office, which he thinks is called Royal Mail. Now he wants Westminster to do his job for him.

https://x.com/humzayousaf/status/17827780579603419...

Good to see community notes tearing him a new one.

Not just community notes

cat said:

if your predecessor could pardon bloody witches, surely you can pardon post masters

[dukeboy749r]

Rick_1138 said:

57 Chevy said:

This man is not fit for office, not even the Post Office, which he thinks is called Royal Mail. Now he wants Westminster to do his job for him.

https://x.com/humzayousaf/status/17827780579603419...

Good to see community notes tearing him a new one.

Absolutely.

He boils my piss.

Him and Sturgeon should fk off to the back of beyond and then fk off some more.

[irc]

Nice Mercurius on the two faces of Humza. East target but made me laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8rHBy0tW-w

[hutchst]

irc said:

Maybe it is "gies some cash"?

"It is understood by The Herald that Scottish ministers want to be confident their bill will be compatible with the UK wide compensation scheme before it becomes law."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24273742.humza...

Interesting question. Should devolved prosecutions being quashed be funded by the UK or Scottish govts?

I'm no lover of the Nats, but as I see it the prosecutions were undertaken in good faith on the basis of unreliable evidence provided by the Post Office, so unless the Scottish Government is/was a shareholder then the cost should be borne by the shareholders (UK Gov)

[Vanden Saab]

hutchst said:

irc said:

Maybe it is "gies some cash"?

"It is understood by The Herald that Scottish ministers want to be confident their bill will be compatible with the UK wide compensation scheme before it becomes law."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24273742.humza...

Interesting question. Should devolved prosecutions being quashed be funded by the UK or Scottish govts?

I'm no lover of the Nats, but as I see it the prosecutions were undertaken in good faith on the basis of unreliable evidence provided by the Post Office, so unless the Scottish Government is/was a shareholder then the cost should be borne by the shareholders (UK Gov)

Sorry, what? This is about the Scottish courts having to quash the convictions of people convicted in Scotland

[irc]

Vanden Saab said:

Sorry, what? This is about the Scottish courts having to quash the convictions of people convicted in Scotland

I think there are two separate issues. Scottish convictions need to be quashed by Scottish courts or the Scottish parliament.

The second issue is who pays compensation. All precedents that I can think of were that the govt of the country concerned or the prosecution authority that brought the case.paid the compo. IE the dodgy Rangers conviction were compensated by the Crown Office.

Should the Post Office then be pursued to refund the govt for the compo costs?

[Evercross]

hutchst said:

I'm no lover of the Nats, but as I see it the prosecutions were undertaken in good faith on the basis of unreliable evidence provided by the Post Office, so unless the Scottish Government is/was a shareholder then the cost should be borne by the shareholders (UK Gov)

This is not the issue. The Horizon Compensation Bill includes Scotland for the purposes of payment. The problem is that UK legislature CANNOT move to pardon anyone convicted under any Scots Law which has been devolved (the same principle as s.35 of the Scotland Act but in reverse). Holyrood has to legislate for that separately, and would be relatively easy to do as it could simply be an Executive Order by the Lord/Lady Advocate who is a member of government.

Humza and Justice Secretary Angela Constance (who I can tell you from personal experience is a thick as mince) really are demonstrating their pitiful level of utter incompetence with this alleged grievance. If it is a dog whistle to their supporters then Scotland has hit a base level of utter ignorance.

PS. There's an unsubstantiated rumour that the reason the Executive Order route has not been taken is because Dorothy Bain does not want to blanket pardon all the convicted postmasters in case some were actually guilty, so it could be that Humza's (false) hope was that Westminster would avail him of having to have difficult conversations with his Lady Advocate.

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 24th April 12:34

[Vanden Saab]

irc said:

Vanden Saab said:

Sorry, what? This is about the Scottish courts having to quash the convictions of people convicted in Scotland

I think there are two separate issues. Scottish convictions need to be quashed by Scottish courts or the Scottish parliament.

The second issue is who pays compensation. All precedents that I can think of were that the govt of the country concerned or the prosecution authority that brought the case.paid the compo. IE the dodgy Rangers conviction were compensated by the Crown Office.

Should the Post Office then be pursued to refund the govt for the compo costs?

It is not about who pays just making sure they get paid.
This news item from more than 3 months ago explains it. They have done nothing to sort it out and are now trying furiously to blame someone, anyone or anything else for their own incompetence and pretending they knew nothing until yesterday.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk...

[irc]

Evercross said:

PS. There's an unsubstantiated rumour that the reason the Executive Order route has not been taken is because Dorothy Bain does not want to blanket pardon all the convicted postmasters in case some were actually guilty.

There may well be guilty postmasters. Pardoning a few of the guilty is better than the alternative of clogging up the courts for years with appeals while elderly postmasters die before getting their names cleared or getting compensated.


Words are cheap.


"Bain told Scottish Horizon victims: “I understand your anger and I apologise for the way you have been failed by trusted institutions and the criminal justice system and I stand beside you in your pursuit of justice.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/16/po...

If there are Scottish convictions which did not use Horizon evidence then they can be separated out. Otherwise clear them all. Even any that pled guilty as we know many were advised to plead guilty.

Edited by irc on Wednesday 24th April 12:47

[irc]

Who knew? Running ancient rust buckets ferries means bigger bills and more time out of service.

" One of Scotland's oldest ferries has been sidelined until at least late August, after the Scottish Government-owned ferry operator CalMac, which has been landed with a £5m repair bill over rust.

It means that one MV Caledonian Isles, one of the elder statesmen of the ageing ferry fleet will have been out of action for at least eight months."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24275485.anger...

It is now a decade since the tender went out for the two ferries. As long as WW1 and WW2 put together.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61161932

[Taffer]

irc said:

It is now a decade since the tender went out for the two ferries. As long as WW1 and WW2 put together.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61161932

https://youtu.be/-ZcSSadV4uo?si=_RZdcy2DF96A3r_8

[cuprabob]

Taffer said:

irc said:

It is now a decade since the tender went out for the two ferries. As long as WW1 and WW2 put together.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61161932

https://youtu.be/-ZcSSadV4uo?si=_RZdcy2DF96A3r_8

[alangla]

cuprabob said:

Taffer said:

irc said:

It is now a decade since the tender went out for the two ferries. As long as WW1 and WW2 put together.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61161932

https://youtu.be/-ZcSSadV4uo?si=_RZdcy2DF96A3r_8

Have another

Interesting that was on BBC Alba, can’t imagine BBC Sturgeon broadcasting it in English.

I also saw a story saying the Isle of Lewis has broken down. Having been built at Ferguson’s in 1995 it’s clearly a Tory plot to disrupt the islands.

I still have to laugh at the Cumbrae service being propped up by a vessel that’s been running since Callaghan. At least it was previously hidden on an obscure service at the back end of Kintyre.

[Evercross]

irc said:

Evercross said:

PS. There's an unsubstantiated rumour that the reason the Executive Order route has not been taken is because Dorothy Bain does not want to blanket pardon all the convicted postmasters in case some were actually guilty.

There may well be guilty postmasters. Pardoning a few of the guilty is better than the alternative of clogging up the courts for years with appeals while elderly postmasters die before getting their names cleared or getting compensated.


Words are cheap.


"Bain told Scottish Horizon victims: “I understand your anger and I apologise for the way you have been failed by trusted institutions and the criminal justice system and I stand beside you in your pursuit of justice.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/16/po...

If there are Scottish convictions which did not use Horizon evidence then they can be separated out. Otherwise clear them all. Even any that pled guilty as we know many were advised to plead guilty.

Just to add - not a rumour. Bain is on record to the Scottish Parliament saying she would not support a blanket quashing of convictions.

So, the grievance is entirely confected and utterly false. Humza had the easy route to a solution blocked by his predecessor's choice of Lady Advocate, and is making excuses to explain the delay in bringing primary legislation and/or his inability to actually govern because of a one-person-with-too-much-power cabinet rebellion.

Someone might even surmise that Humza won't put pressure on Bain to change her mind because he's a hostage to fortune and she knows where his legal skeletons are hiding...

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 24th April 17:42

[Leithen]

I don't understand why the convictions can't be set aside due to unreliable evidence. It doesn't need to be immunity from future prosecution if strong evidence of malfeasance exists. Or does this option not exist in Scots Law?

[hidetheelephants]

It's at points like this that it's apparent why having the senior law officer in your cabinet is a bad idea. If only someone hadn't set that trap!

[alangla]

Her statement to parliament is here: https://www.copfs.gov.uk/about-copfs/news/lord-adv...

This case today seems to illustrate what Scottish SPMs are facing. You’ll note the parallels between this case and the issues that the public inquiry is having.

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/judge-surprised-a...