Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12

[biggbn]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

It's a pity ZedLeg had his brain fart and has gone. He was annoying but at least gave the alternative view. Without him and the 'burger loon the views here now are all a bit samey. Maybe it's sanity prevailing, but the attempts to justify the SNP's shenanigans were always entertaining.

I'm still here General, still broadly but not passionately in suport of a mutually beneficial utopian independence where we all remain friends, still have no problems with 16 as a voting age, still passionately against divisive politics and the SNP in general. Still believe many see kindness as a weakness yet I seek to be kinder and more understanding each day. Still politically homeless, and likely 'internet' homeless. Too pragmatic for truly hippy dippy sites, too much of a hippy for the mainstream. A polite anarchist who is happy to engage with anyone but is rather mercurial and nae stranger to a roll aboot and an overnighter, a pragatic pacifist who will go to any ends to avoid conflict but carries a big stick cos he lives in the real world...its a lonely furrow I plough, and one full of contradictions, but they know where to find me....

[Gecko1978]

biggbn said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

It's a pity ZedLeg had his brain fart and has gone. He was annoying but at least gave the alternative view. Without him and the 'burger loon the views here now are all a bit samey. Maybe it's sanity prevailing, but the attempts to justify the SNP's shenanigans were always entertaining.

I'm still here General, still broadly but not passionately in suport of a mutually beneficial utopian independence where we all remain friends, still have no problems with 16 as a voting age, still passionately against divisive politics and the SNP in general. Still believe many see kindness as a weakness yet I seek to be kinder and more understanding each day. Still politically homeless, and likely 'internet' homeless. Too pragmatic for truly hippy dippy sites, too much of a hippy for the mainstream. A polite anarchist who is happy to engage with anyone but is rather mercurial and nae stranger to a roll aboot and an overnighter, a pragatic pacifist who will go to any ends to avoid conflict but carries a big stick cos he lives in the real world...its a lonely furrow I plough, and one full of contradictions, but they know where to find me....

I think you do have a positive view but if it was shown independence might lead to 20 years of decline or a whole generation being worse off (I think beyojnd that Scotland would look totally different and at least match parts of the UK). I suspect you would not vote for utopia if it meant current youngsters would be worse off

[andy_s]

biggbn said:

I'm still here General, still broadly but not passionately in suport of a mutually beneficial utopian independence where we all remain friends, still have no problems with 16 as a voting age, still passionately against divisive politics and the SNP in general. Still believe many see kindness as a weakness yet I seek to be kinder and more understanding each day. Still politically homeless, and likely 'internet' homeless. Too pragmatic for truly hippy dippy sites, too much of a hippy for the mainstream. A polite anarchist who is happy to engage with anyone but is rather mercurial and nae stranger to a roll aboot and an overnighter, a pragatic pacifist who will go to any ends to avoid conflict but carries a big stick cos he lives in the real world...its a lonely furrow I plough, and one full of contradictions, but they know where to find me....

and long may it continue!

[Ridgemont]

Carl_VivaEspana said:

irc said:

jshell said:

Wings just posted this loony rant from one of the seperatist, Green, child mutilation loving young SNP activists. It's worth a read for it's seething anger!

Just fantastic!

https://archive.ph/UaWEX

And the thread it came from: https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/178854686995975...

A quality rant. Apparently there is only one true path.

If anyone wants a decent read, that rant is worthy.

He/She/Non-Binary makes a mistake by wanting to totally silence any response to said rant but other than that, they should just defect to the Greens, I would say 'and then be happy' but its unlikely that said rantee is going to be happy.

My overall sense from that screed was that here was a young person who needed, at multiple points in his life, to hear the words ‘pipe down boy, adults are talking’.

Entitled wk.

[Ridgemont]

jshell said:

True but sadly not from the man’s mouth. Likely from novel adaptations/games.

But true nevertheless.

[dxg]

emicen said:

Ross Greer trying to give Kate Forbes pelters, not that she noticed with her face buried in her phone

She's got to get her lines from somewhere, after all. She was just waiting for the instruction on which facial expression would be the most beneficial to the cause.

[hidetheelephants]

dxg said:

emicen said:

Ross Greer trying to give Kate Forbes pelters, not that she noticed with her face buried in her phone

She's got to get her lines from somewhere, after all. She was just waiting for the instruction on which facial expression would be the most beneficial to the cause.

Like being savaged by a dead sheep, a ginger one at that.

[alangla]

dxg said:

She's got to get her lines from somewhere, after all. She was just waiting for the instruction on which facial expression would be the most beneficial to the cause.

Of all the current cabinet troughers members, she’s the one that seems least likely to be getting her lines from the member for Glasgow Southside or her hangers on. The rest of them, on the other hand…

[Evercross]

alangla said:

dxg said:

She's got to get her lines from somewhere, after all. She was just waiting for the instruction on which facial expression would be the most beneficial to the cause.

Of all the current cabinet troughers members, she’s the one that seems least likely to be getting her lines from the member for Glasgow Southside or her hangers on. The rest of them, on the other hand…

Could've been worse. Could've been Emma Harper reading Scots gibberish from a teleprompter.

[biggbn]

Evercross said:

alangla said:

dxg said:

She's got to get her lines from somewhere, after all. She was just waiting for the instruction on which facial expression would be the most beneficial to the cause.

Of all the current cabinet troughers members, she’s the one that seems least likely to be getting her lines from the member for Glasgow Southside or her hangers on. The rest of them, on the other hand…

Could've been worse. Could've been Emma Harper reading Scots gibberish from a teleprompter.

That's intersting that you call Scots 'gibberish' EV. I am at odds with many, as ever, in that I don't see it as a 'language' regardless what others say, in that if it is a language so is Scouse, or Cockney, or any of the myriad other regional dialects spoken across this disunited Kingdom. I see no need to dress up the way I talk, my parents and grandparents talked 'Scots', that is, they didn't jist have an accent, they talked using words that are derived from and apposite for the area they lived. Its only gibberish surely if it can't be understood? Given the amount that talk 'scots', one could argue its much more relevant than Scots Gaelic, although one would be forgiven for thinking that given the amount of money wasted putting Gaelic equivalents on police cars, street names and ambulances, presumeably for a non existent percentage of the population who speak ONLY gaelic and can't figure out a white car with a blue light and an English word 'Police' that looks very similar to the Gaelic one 'Poileas' is, in fact, a fkin Polis car; repeat for Ambulance etc...

Rant over....back to my lonely furrow...there are no monsters, there are no monsters.....

[alangla]

biggbn said:

That's intersting that you call Scots 'gibberish' EV. I am at odds with many, as ever, in that I don't see it as a 'language' regardless what others say, in that if it is a language so is Scouse, or Cockney, or any of the myriad other regional dialects spoken across this disunited Kingdom. I see no need to dress up the way I talk, my parents and grandparents talked 'Scots', that is, they didn't jist have an accent, they talked using words that are derived from and apposite for the area they lived. Its only gibberish surely if it can't be understood? Given the amount that talk 'scots', one could argue its much more relevant than Scots Gaelic, although one would be forgiven for thinking that given the amount of money wasted putting Gaelic equivalents on police cars, street names and ambulances, presumeably for a non existent percentage of the population who speak ONLY gaelic and can't figure out a white car with a blue light and an English word 'Police' that looks very similar to the Gaelic one 'Poileas' is, in fact, a fkin Polis car; repeat for Ambulance etc...

Rant over....back to my lonely furrow...there are no monsters, there are no monsters.....

I think one of the issues is that what you’re describing is perhaps best described as modern vernacular for certain areas of Scotland, but what the SNP want is the sort of incomprehensible pish that would have members of every Burns Supper club in the land reaching for Google Translate.

[NRS]

Klippie said:

NRS said:

Just sounds a bit misogynistic to me. You'd likely not say the same if it was an ugly man in power.

Sounds like you've got a bit of a thing for Sturgeon to me, don't let her special friend find out...you don't want a well flung iron heading your way.

No, she's a person I very much dislike, just there's no need to insult her looks. There's plenty of other stuff to pull her up on instead.

[Evercross]

biggbn said:

Evercross said:

Could've been worse. Could've been Emma Harper reading Scots gibberish from a teleprompter.

That's intersting that you call Scots 'gibberish' EV.

You missed the point GBN my friend. What Emma Harper speaks is not Scots. It is clear that it does not come naturally to her and she stutters and stammers her way through prepared speeches supposedly written in it attempting to showboat, yet she ends up looking and sounding ridiculous.

Check out some of her attempts at it on Youtube.

[biggbn]

alangla said:

biggbn said:

That's intersting that you call Scots 'gibberish' EV. I am at odds with many, as ever, in that I don't see it as a 'language' regardless what others say, in that if it is a language so is Scouse, or Cockney, or any of the myriad other regional dialects spoken across this disunited Kingdom. I see no need to dress up the way I talk, my parents and grandparents talked 'Scots', that is, they didn't jist have an accent, they talked using words that are derived from and apposite for the area they lived. Its only gibberish surely if it can't be understood? Given the amount that talk 'scots', one could argue its much more relevant than Scots Gaelic, although one would be forgiven for thinking that given the amount of money wasted putting Gaelic equivalents on police cars, street names and ambulances, presumeably for a non existent percentage of the population who speak ONLY gaelic and can't figure out a white car with a blue light and an English word 'Police' that looks very similar to the Gaelic one 'Poileas' is, in fact, a fkin Polis car; repeat for Ambulance etc...

Rant over....back to my lonely furrow...there are no monsters, there are no monsters.....

I think one of the issues is that what you’re describing is perhaps best described as modern vernacular for certain areas of Scotland, but what the SNP want is the sort of incomprehensible pish that would have members of every Burns Supper club in the land reaching for Google Translate.

No, Scots doesn't have to be Burns type language, it's not archaic and it is, like all use of language, if not a language in and off itself, vibrant, adaptive and evolving. The 'scots' taught in schools encompasses lots of modern writers and poets, and I'm not against it, but it is a (forced) adaptation of the English language, and although its history is quite sad in places, it is how we communicate, or many of us do...its just not a language in my eyes....or ears. As for incomprehensible pish, go talk to an auld Angus farmer, or someone from the North East, or a broad Glaswegian or Fifer. They can be incomprehensible until you tune into the different intonations and figure out the different words. Scots is made up of many, many parts which is why I don't see it as any different than Scouse etc, all dialects that sprung up through necessity evolved seperately but alongside the Engiish language that spawned them

[biggbn]

Evercross said:

biggbn said:

Evercross said:

Could've been worse. Could've been Emma Harper reading Scots gibberish from a teleprompter.

That's intersting that you call Scots 'gibberish' EV.

You missed the point GBN my friend. What Emma Harper speaks is not Scots. It is clear that it does not come naturally to her and she stutters and stammers her way through prepared speeches supposedly written in it attempting to showboat, yet she ends up looking and sounding ridiculous.

Check out some of her attempts at it on Youtube.

I've no idea who she is man, but politician speaks ste has a comforting, familiar ring to it. I have seen what you refer to on TV programmes and don't have the hostility towards it you seem to, people are trying to immerse themselves in their shared culture, although, to use the vernacular, she sounds like a right walloper...

[Evercross]

biggbn said:

I've no idea who she is man, but politician speaks ste has a comforting, familiar ring to it. I have seen what you refer to on TV programmes and don't have the hostility towards it you seem to.

I have zero hostility to Scots as it has the same entitlement to recognition as Shakespearean English, but just like Shakespearean English it sounds ridiculous when used as a means to communicate in the modern world. Scots is not the effected accents of Glasgow, Edinburgh or Ayrshire that some people think it is.

It is not surprising though that Emma Harper is an advocate for it. She's ste at it and doesn't actually understand what it is, which sums up everything about Harper.

This is the same Emma Harper that doesn't understand the basics of currency exchange, and her performance at the Committee on the Cass report is an excruciating watch. The poor Dr. Hilary Cass was very composed but struggled to hide her disbelief at the cretinous, incomprehensible questioning from Harper.

Edited by Evercross on Friday 10th May 12:30

[biggbn]

Evercross said:

biggbn said:

I've no idea who she is man, but politician speaks ste has a comforting, familiar ring to it. I have seen what you refer to on TV programmes and don't have the hostility towards it you seem to.

I have zero hostility to Scots as it has the same entitlement to recognition as Shakespearean English, but just like Shakespearean English it sounds ridiculous when used as a means to communicate in the modern world. Scots is not the affected accents of Glasgow, Edinburgh or Ayrshire that some people think it is.

It is not surprising though that Emma Harper is an advocate for it. She's ste at it and doesn't actually understand what it is, which sums up everything about Harper.

It's not an accent, but definitely a usable dialect that is still in use and evoves daily. It traces its roots back almost 1500 years so it would be extremely churlish to suggest that dialects like Dundonian, Glaswegian etc are not further evolutions of the broader Scots dialect. For me, you can't put a historical full stop on the language we use; please note, I'm not saying Scots is a language, merely part of the language we use. Anyone mistaking an accent, ie the way we sound when we say things, for a dialect or language is missing the point entirely.

[A.J.M]

How about she speaks properly given her position, salary and the importance of what’s being discussed?

Time and place for stuff eh?

[Snow and Rocks]

I actually think you're both agreeing with each other.

Where Emma Harper and the like fall down is acting like the "Scots" she mangles in parliament is a single entity that is/was spoken across Scotland. That might be politically convenient but is an absolute nonsense, no one speaks like that.

Living in darkest Aberdeenshire I'm pretty familiar with Doric (our local dialect) and I'd go as far as to say that in it's broadest form it would be largely unintelligible to someone even from Arbroath or Montrose. There's different words and phrases even within Aberdeenshire itself.

[Klippie]

NRS said:

No, she's a person I very much dislike, just there's no need to insult her looks. There's plenty of other stuff to pull her up on instead.

Regarding her looks...a lot of women dye their hair in a vain attempt to keep their looks for as long as possible, where some just fancy a change, I'll bet you Sturgeon's ginger look has more to do with the stereo typical look of "A Wee Scottish Lass" than anything else, its a projection of a fantasy image.

Do you not think if Sturgeon was drop dead gorgeous her demeanor would be completely different...she might actually be likeable.