Train Stabbing - Suspect Charged
Discussion
fly by wire said:
Digga said:
Yes, I have absentmindedly left my Mountain Technology ice axe between the bed and bedside table.
Oh bugger.That reminds me, I must move my S & J razor sharp hand axe from under my bedside cabinet lest I wake up during the night in a dreamy state and start chopping up the furniture.
A Viz annual can make an excellent improvised shield.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Butler's tweet is idiotic but she isn't in charge of st.
How have we ended up with a system where someone can have damned near a machete in their pocket, attempt to use it, and serve three months in prison?
Wait till the short on crime party get in! It’ll be 3 weeks as a sentence t.How have we ended up with a system where someone can have damned near a machete in their pocket, attempt to use it, and serve three months in prison?
I got threatened with stabbing on a Thameslink train St Albans into St Pancras.
Three tracksuit clad scumbags playing music at full decibels from a phone.
People tutting and eye-rolling. I asked politely if they wouldn’t mind popping on some headphones.
It escalated quite quickly even though I remained very polite. Apparently this was enough of an annoyance that they were offering to stab me. The first two stood up - proper skinny rat boys…then the chap who I could only see his head stood up and I realised I might well be in the st here; big lad.
My girlfriend was by this time on the phone with the police and these three saw sense and got off at the next station. Turns out another passenger had called police as well.
.
Police immediately leapt in to action and didn’t send anyone to assist -apparently all was well because the youths had already alighted the train. No point in going after them…
They did call us back the next day and asked if I could come to BTP offices at St Pancras. I did so the day after, taking three hours off work.
Gave a statement and BTP shot in to action by giving me a leaflet as a victim of crime and saying that viewing the CCTV on train and at stations probably wouldn’t be much use.
I felt much safer after all of that.
A couple of years later I was on the same line coming back late from London. There were two really suspicious guys in the carriage near the doors. Some sort of designer shoulder bags, they smelt funny: like farts and alcohol..just really dodgy. As doors opened at Elstree they lunged forward and grabbed a young guy’s phone from his hand.
I was sat opposite this kid and was too slow to do anything but a guy sat in a single seat grabbed the thief by his jacket and hung on. The thief’s friend was trying to pull his mate with him but as doors closed he stepped off the train, leaving his mate on board with this passenger and now me with hold of him.
It spilled into the door section with the thief, bizarrely, hanging on to the phone with all his worth and trying to shake us off. Passenger started trying to punch the guys ribs and was landing more on me than the thief. I was just thinking ‘what if this guy has a knife’. Managed to get a grip on one of his hands and dislocated a finger.
Lad drops to the floor, kneeling and clutching his hand, and lets go of the phone. Passenger and I look at each other in a ‘what do we do now?’ kind of way. Another man gets up from his seat walks over and boots thief in the head with full force. Knocks him flat out. Shocking!
Passenger gives back phone to the victim, who was crying in shock (20 something male) and a young girl says ‘i’m going to tweet the train company’.
Based on my previous experiences shall I wait for police, give our side of the story and expect to not be in any trouble? Nope, off the next stop and got a cab to a road not too far from my house but not my actual address. Never heard any more about it….
Three tracksuit clad scumbags playing music at full decibels from a phone.
People tutting and eye-rolling. I asked politely if they wouldn’t mind popping on some headphones.
It escalated quite quickly even though I remained very polite. Apparently this was enough of an annoyance that they were offering to stab me. The first two stood up - proper skinny rat boys…then the chap who I could only see his head stood up and I realised I might well be in the s
t here; big lad. My girlfriend was by this time on the phone with the police and these three saw sense and got off at the next station. Turns out another passenger had called police as well.
.
Police immediately leapt in to action and didn’t send anyone to assist -apparently all was well because the youths had already alighted the train. No point in going after them…
They did call us back the next day and asked if I could come to BTP offices at St Pancras. I did so the day after, taking three hours off work.
Gave a statement and BTP shot in to action by giving me a leaflet as a victim of crime and saying that viewing the CCTV on train and at stations probably wouldn’t be much use.
I felt much safer after all of that.
A couple of years later I was on the same line coming back late from London. There were two really suspicious guys in the carriage near the doors. Some sort of designer shoulder bags, they smelt funny: like farts and alcohol..just really dodgy. As doors opened at Elstree they lunged forward and grabbed a young guy’s phone from his hand.
I was sat opposite this kid and was too slow to do anything but a guy sat in a single seat grabbed the thief by his jacket and hung on. The thief’s friend was trying to pull his mate with him but as doors closed he stepped off the train, leaving his mate on board with this passenger and now me with hold of him.
It spilled into the door section with the thief, bizarrely, hanging on to the phone with all his worth and trying to shake us off. Passenger started trying to punch the guys ribs and was landing more on me than the thief. I was just thinking ‘what if this guy has a knife’. Managed to get a grip on one of his hands and dislocated a finger.
Lad drops to the floor, kneeling and clutching his hand, and lets go of the phone. Passenger and I look at each other in a ‘what do we do now?’ kind of way. Another man gets up from his seat walks over and boots thief in the head with full force. Knocks him flat out. Shocking!
Passenger gives back phone to the victim, who was crying in shock (20 something male) and a young girl says ‘i’m going to tweet the train company’.
Based on my previous experiences shall I wait for police, give our side of the story and expect to not be in any trouble? Nope, off the next stop and got a cab to a road not too far from my house but not my actual address. Never heard any more about it….
Edited by jdw100 on Monday 1st April 08:41
robscot said:
No capacity in police. No capacity in justice system.
People get what they vote for.
This.People get what they vote for.
People want taxpayers money spent on cashback rather than better public services.
Triple lock pension, energy bill cash handouts, cost of living cash etc.
That’s the reason tax is so high and public services are so bad. Government (both national and local) aren’t seeming to govern and invest in our infrastructure - they’re merely playing with recycling our cash (except they’re so inept that they dish out more than they had to start with).
jdw100 said:
I got threatened with stabbing on a Thameslink train St Albans into St Pancras.
Three tracksuit clad scumbags playing music at full decibels from a phone.
People tutting and eye-rolling. I asked politely if they wouldn’t mind popping on some headphones.
It escalated quite quickly even though I remained very polite. Apparently this was enough of an annoyance that they were offering to stab me. The first two stood up - proper skinny rat boys…then the chap who I could only see his head stood up and I realised I might well be in the st here; big lad.
My girlfriend was by this time on the phone with the police and these three saw sense and got off at the next station. Turns out another passenger had called police as well.
.
Police immediately leapt in to action and didn’t send anyone to assist -apparently all was well because the youths had already alighted the train. No point in going after them…
They did call us back the next day and asked if I could come to BTP offices at St Pancras. I did so the day after, taking three hours off work.
Gave a statement and BTP shot in to action by giving me a leaflet as a victim of crime and saying that viewing the CCTV on train and at stations probably wouldn’t be much use.
I felt much safer after all of that.
A couple of years later I was on the same line coming back late from London. There were two really suspicious guys in the carriage near the doors. Some sort of designer shoulder bags, they smelt funny: like farts and alcohol..just really dodgy. As doors opened at Elstree they lunged forward and grabbed a young guy’s phone from his hand.
I was sat opposite this kid and was too slow to do anything but a guy sat in a single seat grabbed the thief by his jacket and hung on. The thief’s friend was trying to pull his mate with him but as doors closed he stepped off the train, leaving his mate on board with this passenger and now me with hold of him.
It spilled into the door section with the thief, bizarrely, hanging on to the phone with all his worth and trying to shake us off. Passenger started trying to punch the guys ribs and was landing more on me than the thief. I was just thinking ‘what if this guy has a knife’. Managed to get a grip on one of his hands and dislocated a finger.
Lad drops to the floor, kneeling and clutching his hand, and lets go of the phone. Passenger and I look at each other in a ‘what do we do now?’ kind of way. Another man gets up from his seat walks over and boots thief in the head with full force. Knocks him flat out. Shocking!
Passenger gives back phone to the victim, who was crying in shock (20 something male) and a young girl says ‘i’m going to tweet the train company’.
Based on my previous experiences shall I wait for police, give our side of the story and expect to not be in any trouble? Nope, off the next stop and got a cab to a road not too far from my house but not my actual address. Never heard any more about it….
What would you like the police to do?Three tracksuit clad scumbags playing music at full decibels from a phone.
People tutting and eye-rolling. I asked politely if they wouldn’t mind popping on some headphones.
It escalated quite quickly even though I remained very polite. Apparently this was enough of an annoyance that they were offering to stab me. The first two stood up - proper skinny rat boys…then the chap who I could only see his head stood up and I realised I might well be in the s
t here; big lad. My girlfriend was by this time on the phone with the police and these three saw sense and got off at the next station. Turns out another passenger had called police as well.
.
Police immediately leapt in to action and didn’t send anyone to assist -apparently all was well because the youths had already alighted the train. No point in going after them…
They did call us back the next day and asked if I could come to BTP offices at St Pancras. I did so the day after, taking three hours off work.
Gave a statement and BTP shot in to action by giving me a leaflet as a victim of crime and saying that viewing the CCTV on train and at stations probably wouldn’t be much use.
I felt much safer after all of that.
A couple of years later I was on the same line coming back late from London. There were two really suspicious guys in the carriage near the doors. Some sort of designer shoulder bags, they smelt funny: like farts and alcohol..just really dodgy. As doors opened at Elstree they lunged forward and grabbed a young guy’s phone from his hand.
I was sat opposite this kid and was too slow to do anything but a guy sat in a single seat grabbed the thief by his jacket and hung on. The thief’s friend was trying to pull his mate with him but as doors closed he stepped off the train, leaving his mate on board with this passenger and now me with hold of him.
It spilled into the door section with the thief, bizarrely, hanging on to the phone with all his worth and trying to shake us off. Passenger started trying to punch the guys ribs and was landing more on me than the thief. I was just thinking ‘what if this guy has a knife’. Managed to get a grip on one of his hands and dislocated a finger.
Lad drops to the floor, kneeling and clutching his hand, and lets go of the phone. Passenger and I look at each other in a ‘what do we do now?’ kind of way. Another man gets up from his seat walks over and boots thief in the head with full force. Knocks him flat out. Shocking!
Passenger gives back phone to the victim, who was crying in shock (20 something male) and a young girl says ‘i’m going to tweet the train company’.
Based on my previous experiences shall I wait for police, give our side of the story and expect to not be in any trouble? Nope, off the next stop and got a cab to a road not too far from my house but not my actual address. Never heard any more about it….
Edited by jdw100 on Monday 1st April 08:41
At work you have priorities and limited time right?
I assume investigating your first scenario would take quite a lot of hours for several police officers. And if they then caught the offenders, what offence could they be charged and prosecuted with? Was it serious enough to warrant high priority?
Maybe it was. But there are limited resources.
jdw100 said:
....Managed to get a grip on one of his hands and dislocated a finger.
Lad drops to the floor, kneeling and clutching his hand, and lets go of the phone. Passenger and I look at each other in a ‘what do we do now?’ kind of way. Another man gets up from his seat walks over and boots thief in the head with full force. Knocks him flat out...
As a former Southern rail commuter for >15 years I have fantasised about doing this many, many times. Must be immensely satisfying.Lad drops to the floor, kneeling and clutching his hand, and lets go of the phone. Passenger and I look at each other in a ‘what do we do now?’ kind of way. Another man gets up from his seat walks over and boots thief in the head with full force. Knocks him flat out...
jdw100 said:
I got threatened with stabbing on a Thameslink train St Albans into St Pancras.
Three tracksuit clad scumbags playing music at full decibels from a phone.
People tutting and eye-rolling. I asked politely if they wouldn’t mind popping on some headphones.
It escalated quite quickly even though I remained very polite. Apparently this was enough of an annoyance that they were offering to stab me. The first two stood up - proper skinny rat boys…then the chap who I could only see his head stood up and I realised I might well be in the st here; big lad.
My girlfriend was by this time on the phone with the police and these three saw sense and got off at the next station. Turns out another passenger had called police as well.
.
Police immediately leapt in to action and didn’t send anyone to assist -apparently all was well because the youths had already alighted the train. No point in going after them…
They did call us back the next day and asked if I could come to BTP offices at St Pancras. I did so the day after, taking three hours off work.
Gave a statement and BTP shot in to action by giving me a leaflet as a victim of crime and saying that viewing the CCTV on train and at stations probably wouldn’t be much use.
I felt much safer after all of that.
A couple of years later I was on the same line coming back late from London. There were two really suspicious guys in the carriage near the doors. Some sort of designer shoulder bags, they smelt funny: like farts and alcohol..just really dodgy. As doors opened at Elstree they lunged forward and grabbed a young guy’s phone from his hand.
I was sat opposite this kid and was too slow to do anything but a guy sat in a single seat grabbed the thief by his jacket and hung on. The thief’s friend was trying to pull his mate with him but as doors closed he stepped off the train, leaving his mate on board with this passenger and now me with hold of him.
It spilled into the door section with the thief, bizarrely, hanging on to the phone with all his worth and trying to shake us off. Passenger started trying to punch the guys ribs and was landing more on me than the thief. I was just thinking ‘what if this guy has a knife’. Managed to get a grip on one of his hands and dislocated a finger.
Lad drops to the floor, kneeling and clutching his hand, and lets go of the phone. Passenger and I look at each other in a ‘what do we do now?’ kind of way. Another man gets up from his seat walks over and boots thief in the head with full force. Knocks him flat out. Shocking!
Passenger gives back phone to the victim, who was crying in shock (20 something male) and a young girl says ‘i’m going to tweet the train company’.
Based on my previous experiences shall I wait for police, give our side of the story and expect to not be in any trouble? Nope, off the next stop and got a cab to a road not too far from my house but not my actual address. Never heard any more about it….
You're actually better off getting rail staff to put out a broadcast on the train for police. I was in a carriage where a scrote was getting very aggressive with another passenger. The guard (or whatever they are called these days) broadcast for any police on the train to come to the carriage, and three turned up.Three tracksuit clad scumbags playing music at full decibels from a phone.
People tutting and eye-rolling. I asked politely if they wouldn’t mind popping on some headphones.
It escalated quite quickly even though I remained very polite. Apparently this was enough of an annoyance that they were offering to stab me. The first two stood up - proper skinny rat boys…then the chap who I could only see his head stood up and I realised I might well be in the s
t here; big lad. My girlfriend was by this time on the phone with the police and these three saw sense and got off at the next station. Turns out another passenger had called police as well.
.
Police immediately leapt in to action and didn’t send anyone to assist -apparently all was well because the youths had already alighted the train. No point in going after them…
They did call us back the next day and asked if I could come to BTP offices at St Pancras. I did so the day after, taking three hours off work.
Gave a statement and BTP shot in to action by giving me a leaflet as a victim of crime and saying that viewing the CCTV on train and at stations probably wouldn’t be much use.
I felt much safer after all of that.
A couple of years later I was on the same line coming back late from London. There were two really suspicious guys in the carriage near the doors. Some sort of designer shoulder bags, they smelt funny: like farts and alcohol..just really dodgy. As doors opened at Elstree they lunged forward and grabbed a young guy’s phone from his hand.
I was sat opposite this kid and was too slow to do anything but a guy sat in a single seat grabbed the thief by his jacket and hung on. The thief’s friend was trying to pull his mate with him but as doors closed he stepped off the train, leaving his mate on board with this passenger and now me with hold of him.
It spilled into the door section with the thief, bizarrely, hanging on to the phone with all his worth and trying to shake us off. Passenger started trying to punch the guys ribs and was landing more on me than the thief. I was just thinking ‘what if this guy has a knife’. Managed to get a grip on one of his hands and dislocated a finger.
Lad drops to the floor, kneeling and clutching his hand, and lets go of the phone. Passenger and I look at each other in a ‘what do we do now?’ kind of way. Another man gets up from his seat walks over and boots thief in the head with full force. Knocks him flat out. Shocking!
Passenger gives back phone to the victim, who was crying in shock (20 something male) and a young girl says ‘i’m going to tweet the train company’.
Based on my previous experiences shall I wait for police, give our side of the story and expect to not be in any trouble? Nope, off the next stop and got a cab to a road not too far from my house but not my actual address. Never heard any more about it….
Edited by jdw100 on Monday 1st April 08:41
When you think about the numbers on an average commuter train the likelihood of a police officer (or any other profession) is quite high.
Edited by 98elise on Monday 1st April 17:10
oyster said:
What would you like the police to do?
At work you have priorities and limited time right?
I assume investigating your first scenario would take quite a lot of hours for several police officers. And if they then caught the offenders, what offence could they be charged and prosecuted with? Was it serious enough to warrant high priority?
Maybe it was. But there are limited resources.
Yep, to be fair the BTP have been great in the few times I have called them. Second time wasn't too dissimilar to that described above - very aggressive guy and chavvy girlfriend threatening someone. I First time, guy slapped a woman (who I presumed to be his partner) around the face. Turns out he was just dishing out slaps to anyone in the carriage. Being a new commuter and the super snitch I am - stuck in an earphone and called the BTP. Several questions later (who am i .. how often do i call the BTP? etc.) the thug had moved along to my end of the carriage and was now threatening anyone who dared to call the police. Whilst the guy right in front of him got the brunt of attention I managed to convince the BTP chap on the end of the line that this wasn't the best time to ask me more questions and they said they were stopping the train at the next stop to catch him.At work you have priorities and limited time right?
I assume investigating your first scenario would take quite a lot of hours for several police officers. And if they then caught the offenders, what offence could they be charged and prosecuted with? Was it serious enough to warrant high priority?
Maybe it was. But there are limited resources.
98elise said:
...When you think about the numbers on an average commuter train the likelihood of a police officer (or any other profession) is quite high...
I was on a train when an old man pulled out a porno mag and started flicking through it without a care in the world. A woman asked him to put it away but he resisted. An off-duty police officer overheard, showed his ID and told the old boy to put his mag away. A rather surreal 20 seconds.There's a power law concerning crime and society that isn't factored into our current sentencing guidelines imo, a 'first offence' is usually considered leniently, however it really should be a massive red flag in respect to violent offences:
https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/when-few-do...
[Study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC39698... ]
https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/when-few-do...
[Study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC39698... ]
Many years ago now I took a group of recruits to NSY where they were addressed by the then Assistant Commissioner Anderson Dunn
He said this: (words to this effect)
The role of Police is very simple,
90% of the people are good decent law abiding people, like you, your families and friends
10% are sad, mad, bad or frequently a mix of all three
The job is simply to protect the 90% from the 10% and to deal robustly fairly with the 10% and if one of the 90% break the law deal with them fairly, but with the respect you’d expect to be treated with
I couldnt argue with his logic
He said this: (words to this effect)
The role of Police is very simple,
90% of the people are good decent law abiding people, like you, your families and friends
10% are sad, mad, bad or frequently a mix of all three
The job is simply to protect the 90% from the 10% and to deal robustly fairly with the 10% and if one of the 90% break the law deal with them fairly, but with the respect you’d expect to be treated with
I couldnt argue with his logic
oyster said:
What would you like the police to do?
At work you have priorities and limited time right?
I assume investigating your first scenario would take quite a lot of hours for several police officers. And if they then caught the offenders, what offence could they be charged and prosecuted with? Was it serious enough to warrant high priority?
Maybe it was. But there are limited resources.
Hi.At work you have priorities and limited time right?
I assume investigating your first scenario would take quite a lot of hours for several police officers. And if they then caught the offenders, what offence could they be charged and prosecuted with? Was it serious enough to warrant high priority?
Maybe it was. But there are limited resources.
Serious enough?
‘ A person who without lawful excuse makes to another a threat, intending that that other would fear it would be carried out, to kill that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.’
‘ The maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife or weapon illegally is either 4 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both. You'll get a prison sentence if you're convicted of carrying a knife or weapon illegally more than once’
Three young men, easily identifiable, leaving a known location. Armed.
Multiple witnesses. Live commentary of the event on the 999 calls.
I do feel it warranted some sort of response.
These guys were on such a hair trigger that a polite request to stop playing music led them quickly to making threats to kill.
When you are directly affected I guess you’d like some support/action.
Edited by jdw100 on Tuesday 2nd April 00:11
Hereward said:
As a former Southern rail commuter for >15 years I have fantasised about doing this many, many times. Must be immensely satisfying.
It was a bloody awful event from start to finish. A bit surreal, as I recall.
At this point in my life I had been training twice a week in self defence for 5/6 years. Is it okay for me to use any moves, appropriate? Just didn’t know.
This was three guys stumbling around in a train carriage, not saying a word. All I could think of is that if he has a knife one of us could get badly hurt or killed. I had seen his mate bravely abandon him, but were there others?
I was trying to spin him around so I could keep looking out for others but the passenger was was pulling him in other directions. Plus I was receiving some wild punches from the passenger. I didn’t want to let the thief’s hands loose at all, in case of a knife.
Then you’re in a stupid position of ‘what if I do hurt him?’ How much trouble am I in?
When this other passenger booted him in the head, the whole carriage went deathly quiet. Knocked the guy out, crumpled in a heap. He was already out of the fight. No need for it at all and just a shocking piece of violence.
Not seen anything like it before or since.
Not at all how any fantasies of heroically tackling a thief play out in your head.
The kid whose phone has been snatched was in tears, from shock.
Sadly, my thoughts were I’m not going to prison for any of this…hence exiting the scene in a way that made me harder to trace.
Good anecdote years later but a horrible experience for all involved.
Edited by jdw100 on Tuesday 2nd April 00:55
Earthdweller said:
Many years ago now I took a group of recruits to NSY where they were addressed by the then Assistant Commissioner Anderson Dunn
He said this: (words to this effect)
The role of Police is very simple,
90% of the people are good decent law abiding people, like you, your families and friends
10% are sad, mad, bad or frequently a mix of all three
The job is simply to protect the 90% from the 10% and to deal robustly fairly with the 10% and if one of the 90% break the law deal with them fairly, but with the respect you’d expect to be treated with
I couldnt argue with his logic
I have a brother in law in the police, in a different country.He said this: (words to this effect)
The role of Police is very simple,
90% of the people are good decent law abiding people, like you, your families and friends
10% are sad, mad, bad or frequently a mix of all three
The job is simply to protect the 90% from the 10% and to deal robustly fairly with the 10% and if one of the 90% break the law deal with them fairly, but with the respect you’d expect to be treated with
I couldnt argue with his logic
Some of his job is going out on Fridays and visiting known trouble makers. Warning them not to go out drinking at the weekend (most crime is drink related), stay out of trouble.
Once they’ve been out of trouble for a while he drops them off his radar.
jdw100 said:
Earthdweller said:
Many years ago now I took a group of recruits to NSY where they were addressed by the then Assistant Commissioner Anderson Dunn
He said this: (words to this effect)
The role of Police is very simple,
90% of the people are good decent law abiding people, like you, your families and friends
10% are sad, mad, bad or frequently a mix of all three
The job is simply to protect the 90% from the 10% and to deal robustly fairly with the 10% and if one of the 90% break the law deal with them fairly, but with the respect you’d expect to be treated with
I couldnt argue with his logic
I have a brother in law in the police, in a different country.He said this: (words to this effect)
The role of Police is very simple,
90% of the people are good decent law abiding people, like you, your families and friends
10% are sad, mad, bad or frequently a mix of all three
The job is simply to protect the 90% from the 10% and to deal robustly fairly with the 10% and if one of the 90% break the law deal with them fairly, but with the respect you’d expect to be treated with
I couldnt argue with his logic
Some of his job is going out on Fridays and visiting known trouble makers. Warning them not to go out drinking at the weekend (most crime is drink related), stay out of trouble.
Once they’ve been out of trouble for a while he drops them off his radar.
jdw100 said:
Solving the problem by making it worse is a particular skill of the establishment, usually mediated by perverse incentive and first order thinking. See ‘every other critical system’ for details.andy_s said:
jdw100 said:
Solving the problem by making it worse is a particular skill of the establishment, usually mediated by perverse incentive and first order thinking. See ‘every other critical system’ for details.As for the stats on recidivism, my mate who was on the police would agree, wholeheartedly. When local, known nutters are inside, the streets are safer. What a surprise.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff