Train Stabbing - Suspect Charged
Discussion
maz8062 said:
As is the case with this here forum, folk are focusing on policing or lack of it. The police can’t be everywhere - there’s so much criminality going on in the world in 2024. If we genuinely want to address these issues we have to accept limitations on our civil liberties, a hot potato in of itself.
No, for me the issue is how a boy, 18 years old, has that much violence in him. Violence to carry a huge knife and use it in broad day light. His life is over already and it’s barely started. Who’s responsible? He’s responsible. His parents are responsible. His schooling. Social workers. The police? In the end though, the boy is ultimately responsible for his own actions - if he’s crazy get him help. But blaming the police, a finite resource, is a waste of time and a cop out.
He is 18 so a man not a boy. Also having been charged for carrying a knife he was told clearly in court it was wrong. fNo, for me the issue is how a boy, 18 years old, has that much violence in him. Violence to carry a huge knife and use it in broad day light. His life is over already and it’s barely started. Who’s responsible? He’s responsible. His parents are responsible. His schooling. Social workers. The police? In the end though, the boy is ultimately responsible for his own actions - if he’s crazy get him help. But blaming the police, a finite resource, is a waste of time and a cop out.
k himSpare tyre said:
Stuff needs nipping in the bud
A short sharp shock is needed, each cycle is always worse than the previous one and ultimately costs more and more from the tax payers pot
Too many morons taking out not enough going in to sustain it
Agreed. I have seen this with one of my nephews - he was lucky, the YOI did the trick and set him on the straight and narrow.A short sharp shock is needed, each cycle is always worse than the previous one and ultimately costs more and more from the tax payers pot
Too many morons taking out not enough going in to sustain it
As I said before, my mate who used to be in the police would see random assaults soar, the instant any of the local nutters got released. Bear in mind that, in his opinion, what the police knew about, with many of these thugs, was likely just the tip of the iceberg. So aside from the very serious assaults investigated, otr the ones they knew of, but the victims were either unsure of the assailant or too frightened to make a statement, there will be low level brutality of many and various types.
There are a very small minority of people who ever commit these sorts of random, violent offences, but the consciousness blights the lives of anyone who use public transport or places. They tend not to affect the nice, cosy enclaves of the judges and magistrates.
pork911 said:
julian987R said:
pork911 said:
And accept that you might wrongly end up as one if these people?
There would of course have to be a more rigorous system to conclude guilt.The point is, these dolts who want to take another persons life, should not have the right to produce life, hence medical castration is the best in my opinion as punishment.
julian987R said:
pork911 said:
julian987R said:
pork911 said:
And accept that you might wrongly end up as one if these people?
There would of course have to be a more rigorous system to conclude guilt.The point is, these dolts who want to take another persons life, should not have the right to produce life, hence medical castration is the best in my opinion as punishment.
Digga said:
Agreed. I have seen this with one of my nephews - he was lucky, the YOI did the trick and set him on the straight and narrow.
As I said before, my mate who used to be in the police would see random assaults soar, the instant any of the local nutters got released. Bear in mind that, in his opinion, what the police knew about, with many of these thugs, was likely just the tip of the iceberg. So aside from the very serious assaults investigated, otr the ones they knew of, but the victims were either unsure of the assailant or too frightened to make a statement, there will be low level brutality of many and various types.
There are a very small minority of people who ever commit these sorts of random, violent offences, but the consciousness blights the lives of anyone who use public transport or places. They tend not to affect the nice, cosy enclaves of the judges and magistrates.
I have a cousin that did 6 months, must be 15 years ago.As I said before, my mate who used to be in the police would see random assaults soar, the instant any of the local nutters got released. Bear in mind that, in his opinion, what the police knew about, with many of these thugs, was likely just the tip of the iceberg. So aside from the very serious assaults investigated, otr the ones they knew of, but the victims were either unsure of the assailant or too frightened to make a statement, there will be low level brutality of many and various types.
There are a very small minority of people who ever commit these sorts of random, violent offences, but the consciousness blights the lives of anyone who use public transport or places. They tend not to affect the nice, cosy enclaves of the judges and magistrates.
Only person in family in history to have gone dahn for a stretch.
He was 18. Hard working parents, he was a dick.
What a shock, turned him right around.
Hadn’t tried at school but found himself teaching other lads to read. Always had a nice roof over his head, food on table, holidays etc…. Was now mixing with guys that had been in care or effectively homeless or feral for most of their lives. A lot had been abused physically and/or mentally.
Came out of prison: ditched the chav haircut, no more jogging bottoms, refused to speak to most of previous friends. Now has a house, partner and kids.
However, he says that he realises he had lots of chances in life. A lot he was ‘banged up’ with had none and crime was the norm or a means to survive.
Its not like they suddenly think; yeah i don’t think i’ll aim for that job in the City I’ll get into petty crime instead. Can of super strength lager and selling some drugs to get by….have you not got that lovely chardonnay and can we do a tech start up instead?
I have a mate that grew up in Hackney. He was stabbed and his cousin died in front of him: all over a ‘where you from mate’ incident.
His family are in no way upstanding members of society. My fvriend left the country to get away from all this stuff.
If you hear his stories though: it really isn’t a career choice for many of these kids; its the life that is there in front of you.
andy_s said:
jdw100 said:
Solving the problem by making it worse is a particular skill of the establishment, usually mediated by perverse incentive and first order thinking. See ‘every other critical system’ for details.As for the stats on recidivism, my mate who was on the police would agree, wholeheartedly. When local, known nutters are inside, the streets are safer. What a surprise.
swisstoni said:
There seems to be an unwritten law that the amount of jail space cannot be increased. That to do so would be some kind of admission of systemic and political failure.
It way well be.
But reputations and optics are less important than public safety imho.
I think we've already failed so, yes, we should build more.It way well be.
But reputations and optics are less important than public safety imho.
Prison map
swisstoni said:
There seems to be an unwritten law that the amount of jail space cannot be increased. That to do so would be some kind of admission of systemic and political failure.
It way well be.
But reputations and optics are less important than public safety imho.
It costs £50k a year per prisoner.It way well be.
But reputations and optics are less important than public safety imho.
swisstoni said:
There seems to be an unwritten law that the amount of jail space cannot be increased. That to do so would be some kind of admission of systemic and political failure.
It way well be.
But reputations and optics are less important than public safety imho.
They are building more prison capacity but so far totally inadequate for the level of criminality. So far 5k additional cells have been delivered and a further 15k are in the works.It way well be.
But reputations and optics are less important than public safety imho.
Realistically it probably needs to be considerably more than that.
CraigyMc said:
swisstoni said:
There seems to be an unwritten law that the amount of jail space cannot be increased. That to do so would be some kind of admission of systemic and political failure.
It way well be.
But reputations and optics are less important than public safety imho.
It costs £50k a year per prisoner.It way well be.
But reputations and optics are less important than public safety imho.
I never get the argument that 'too many go to prison'. If people are committing imprisonable crimes then those people must go to prison and if there are insufficient cells available then more should be built.
That doesn't change the fact that increasingly more people as a percentage of the population feel emboldened enough to commit those crimes in the first place. I'd suggest that the (un) likelihood of getting caught/punished increases the chances of said wrong'un risking committing the crime.
We simply need to spend more on policing and prisons/rehabilitation, or the 99% have to accept the consequences.
That doesn't change the fact that increasingly more people as a percentage of the population feel emboldened enough to commit those crimes in the first place. I'd suggest that the (un) likelihood of getting caught/punished increases the chances of said wrong'un risking committing the crime.
We simply need to spend more on policing and prisons/rehabilitation, or the 99% have to accept the consequences.
croyde said:
Life in prison is better than how some folk exist on the outside.
Many pensioners would be better off in prison.
I think you have hit the nail on the head but not in the way you meant it. Conditions in society are ripe for crime because there is a section of society that is treated differently. Many pensioners would be better off in prison.
Wealth inequality is getting wider.
I am sure there are lots who would argue their wealth should be protected at the cost of locking lots of people up. Happy to spend 50k per year on the way down but not 20k on the way up.
croyde said:
Maybe they should design prisons and life within them to not cost a lot more than I earn.
It's supposed to be a deterrent not a holiday camp.
Life in prison is better than how some folk exist on the outside.
Many pensioners would be better off in prison.
I think it depends on where you are, I’ve been in a few of the old prisons such as Brixton, Pentonville and the Scrubs and I wouldn’t wish them on anyone It's supposed to be a deterrent not a holiday camp.
Life in prison is better than how some folk exist on the outside.
Many pensioners would be better off in prison.
The open prisons for low risk and end of term inmates are different but even so everyone has to start in one of the above type of prisons
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