Michaela School - court case

[Killer2005]

fizz47 said:

Whatever your view on religion -it’s a group who wanted to exercise their time during lunch that doesn’t actually affect those who who don’t want to join in.. same way the kids who don’t like playing football don’t have to join in on a kick around..

Clearly there is a physical element of the prayer where people can outwardly see a group is praying. What if someone sits on a chair by themselves and performs a prayer silently. The act of worship is still there for that person. Would that be banned as well?

Yes, but if those who didn't want to exercise were bullied and targeted for not doing so then it becomes an issue.

[Goaty Bill 2]

g3org3y said:

MrJuice said:

Interesting that the school is veggie. Presumably as a sacrifice to make the veggies feel comfortable. Tolerance and all that.

It was to allow all pupils to participate in the 'family lunches' (where pupils sit in tables of 6, each doing a specific role) as for religious reasons some pupils couldn't eat pork or beef etc, so it was decided no meat to be served so no issues. It was discussed in the interview that was linked.

Doing some catch up on this thread, it's quite clear that a number of people haven't watched the interview with Birbalsingh who clearly explains the chain of events, the reasons for their decision and the school ethos generally.

[lord trumpton]

Regardless of what the PH Massive thinks, the court has ruled.

The parents of the poor little students will have to make a few decisions of their own now.

[London424]

sugerbear said:

The school is a selective school. Does wonder to your results when you are able to pick and choose which pupils attend your school.

Knowing the self promotion of the head in this case it wouldnt surprise me if she put the parent up to taking action for a bit of self publicity.

I think you missed a word there. It’s NOT a selective school.

It’s a lottery system to get in.

[Chamon_Lee]

JagLover said:

ATG said:

The kids were getting together at break to pray. The problem is that kids are not allowed to congregate in groups of more than four at any time during the day, apparently. Which seems a bit odd to a normal person, but that's what was said on the radio this morning, if I heard it correctly.

So you have the happy convergence of a school that has good academic results, is a fking asylum run by a mad woman and may well have some litigious pupils who are a pain in the arse. So mainly a plague on all their houses, +/- the pupil's house.

I would expect a school to be able to set and enforce its own rules so long as they are transparent, not harmful and vaguely reasonable. Allowing different schools to try different strategies is fine. I'd expect governors and ultimately regulators to be the guard against batst crazy, with parents' primary weapon being to "vote with their feet".

In extreme cases it is fine for rules to be tested in court, and it isn't immediately obvious that this isn't one of those cases, so I'm not going to get exercised about a relatively small amount of cash being splashed on it from legal aid.

I predict that this school's practices will change and they will slowly get shot of the lunacy as the founding nutcases gradually get replaced. Let's hope they maintain good academic standards. It's pretty obvious that you don't need to finish letters with "God save the King!" to achieve that.

The school has been rated outstanding both times it was inspected and academically far outperforms the average in the state sector. Which is even more impressive due to the higher proportion of disadvantaged children.

So not sure where all the claims of being an asylum come from, except if some are opposed in principle to schools having a strict ethos and discipline.

They are also a choice, as they were an additional free school in the local area, who started out in a former office block. So parents who like the ethos can choose it and those who don't can go for the existing state schools in the area.

I wonder if its outstanding because of the children following religion.
Must be.

[irc]

768 said:

sugerbear said:

The school is a selective school. Does wonder to your results when you are able to pick and choose which pupils attend your school.

https://www.get-information-schools.service.gov.uk...

Don't go bringing your hard facts here and proving the bigots wrong.

I fail to understand why so many people have a problem with a high achieving school. It sends more of it's 6th form pupils to Russell Group universities than the average private school. 82%.

As for why religion is banned.

"reportedly most of the Muslim parents at the school were appalled at the case.

As they should be. I have spoken to pupils at other schools in London who have told me first-hand about the sort of pressure which is applied once Muslim pupils get into this kind of escalation. It starts with a Muslim girl who wears the hijab questioning girls of Muslim origin who do not, and proceeds from there. Before you know it, you have allowed a system of shame culture to embed in the school. "


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-triumph-of...

[otolith]

ATG said:

It's the natural arc these things tend to follow. Charismatic lunatic enthuses a load of people. They really work hard and managed to achieve something (because of the enthusiasm and hard work, NOT because of the bat st craziness.) Eventually the scales fall from their eyes and they see the insanity for what it is and, if you're lucky they preserve the good stuff, and if you're unlucky the disillusionment destroys the whole edifice.

That analysis seems to suggest that other schools do less well because their teachers are lazy and don’t care or work hard?

[oddman]

For those of you taking time to comment but not taking time to watch the linked video - give it a chance.

I know Birbalsingh is a bit of a darling on the right and a bête noir of the left. However the objectives she has would align with a hippy dippy '60s progressive comprehensive. The idea of groups of 6 for lunch; restricting the size of groups that gather and discipline in corrodors not only pursues the ethos of harmony between pupils of very diverse backgrounds but also prevents the emergence of gang culture.

The pupil involved appears to be at the nucleus of a movement to challenge the school's ethos and in particular target less observant muslim students. These students should be allowed the freedom to succeed and practice their religion (or not) without bullying from the proxies of zealots outside the school

Edited by oddman on Friday 19th April 08:24

[standards]

Find myself in agreement with the National Secular Society who advocate an absence of religious practice in schools but commend the teaching about religion in school to more fully understand the modern world.

Edited by standards on Friday 19th April 12:53

[fly by wire]

oddman said:

For those of you taking time to comment but not taking time to watch the linked video - give it a chance.

I know Birbalsingh is a bit of a darling on the right and a bête noir of the left. However the objectives she has would align with a hippy dippy '60s progressive comprehensive. The idea of groups of 6 for lunch; restricting the size of groups that gather and discipline in corrodors not only pursues the ethos of harmony between pupils of very diverse backgrounds but also prevents the emergence of gang culture.

The pupil involved appears to be at the nucleus of a movement to challenge the school's ethos and in particular target less observant muslim students. These students should be allowed the freedom to succeed and practice their religion (or not) without bullying from the proxies of zealots outside the school

In a nutshell.

[hidetheelephants]

oddman said:

For those of you taking time to comment but not taking time to watch the linked video - give it a chance.

I know Birbalsingh is a bit of a darling on the right and a bête noir of the left. However the objectives she has would align with a hippy dippy '60s progressive comprehensive. The idea of groups of 6 for lunch; restricting the size of groups that gather and discipline in corrodors not only pursues the ethos of harmony between pupils of very diverse backgrounds but also prevents the emergence of gang culture.

The pupil involved appears to be at the nucleus of a movement to challenge the school's ethos and in particular target less observant muslim students. These students should be allowed the freedom to succeed and practice their religion (or not) without bullying from the proxies of zealots outside the school

It's a thing; some time ago the USAF Academy in Colorado Springs had problems with religiously inspired bullying, it was unfortunately encouraged by some staff. A chaplain complained and tried to oppose it and was transferred overseas for their efforts. That's adults behaving like they're in the Lord of the Flies, so why would kids be any different?

[gregs656]

standards said:

Find myself in agreement with the National Secular Society who advocate an absence of religious practice in schools but commend the teaching about religion in school to more fully understand the modern world.

Edited by standards on Friday 19th April 12:53

To properly achieve that we need to separate the state from religion - not on the radar of any of the big parties, perhaps considered too divisive still? Could we see a single issue pressure group party form around that issue?

[otolith]

gregs656 said:

To properly achieve that we need to separate the state from religion - not on the radar of any of the big parties, perhaps considered too divisive still? Could we see a single issue pressure group party form around that issue?

While I support that objective, I really don't see that it's a prerequisite for making non-faith schools secular in nature. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the situations where the only good schools locally happen to be state faith schools.

[gregs656]

otolith said:

While I support that objective, I really don't see that it's a prerequisite for making non-faith schools secular in nature. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the situations where the only good schools locally happen to be state faith schools.

Meeting the objective would mean state faith schools no longer existed.

[hidetheelephants]

gregs656 said:

otolith said:

While I support that objective, I really don't see that it's a prerequisite for making non-faith schools secular in nature. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the situations where the only good schools locally happen to be state faith schools.

Meeting the objective would mean state faith schools no longer existed.

Good; faith should be a private matter for the individual. The number following the nominal state religion is in freefall, the state should not have any part in proselytising for it.

[otolith]

gregs656 said:

otolith said:

While I support that objective, I really don't see that it's a prerequisite for making non-faith schools secular in nature. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the situations where the only good schools locally happen to be state faith schools.

Meeting the objective would mean state faith schools no longer existed.

Personally, I'm more concerned by the lack of good secular schools in some catchments than the existence of faith schools. I'm more motivated by ensuring that those kids whose parents don't want to send their kids to a faith school don't have to than by taking the option away from those who do. I don't agree with those who do wish to do so, but they aren't my kids.

Given that there are state faith schools which are not of the two established churches (there are state funded Muslim, Jewish, and Catholic schools), I'm not sure that the separation of church and state and the existence of faith schools are entirely linked.

[standards]

otolith said:

gregs656 said:

otolith said:

While I support that objective, I really don't see that it's a prerequisite for making non-faith schools secular in nature. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the situations where the only good schools locally happen to be state faith schools.

Meeting the objective would mean state faith schools no longer existed.

Personally, I'm more concerned by the lack of good secular schools in some catchments than the existence of faith schools. I'm more motivated by ensuring that those kids whose parents don't want to send their kids to a faith school don't have to than by taking the option away from those who do. I don't agree with those who do wish to do so, but they aren't my kids.

Given that there are state faith schools which are not of the two established churches (there are state funded Muslim, Jewish, and Catholic schools), I'm not sure that the separation of church and state and the existence of faith schools are entirely linked.

I tend to agree with the last sentence. Although I understand that there is no Established Church in Wales but church affiliated schools.

[Billy_Rosewood]

I have some family in Redbridge, and apparently conversion attempts in school prayer rooms are a hugely under reported issue, with a few attempts turning out to be successful. Lack of supervision in prayer rooms seems a bit of an issue imo.

I can't find much around it other than on social media.

https://twitter.com/zPopzz/status/1776242427830907...

[Biggy Stardust]

Billy_Rosewood said:

I have some family in Redbridge, and apparently conversion attempts in school prayer rooms are a hugely under reported issue, with a few attempts turning out to be successful. Lack of supervision in prayer rooms seems a bit of an issue imo.

Pathetic, isn't it? "Don't mumbo-jumbo to your imaginary friend, come & mumbo-jumbo to ours otherwise we might hurt you".

[Countdown]

Looks like the Headteacher isn't happy with Suella Braverman.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13330035/...