Mark Menzies MP campaign funds
Discussion
andymadmak said:
Populism plus several other factors such as:
1. Too many voters has come to expect that fixing stuff is the responsibility or at least to be paid for by someone, anyone else but themselves.
2. The standard of political debate is incredibly poor these days. Nobody wants to say the difficult stuff that needs to be said.
3. Nobody wants to make choices, especially if those choices might piss somebody/some section of the media off.
4. The media is increasingly toxic, but then the public lap up that toxicity, so we can only expect it to get worse
5. We expect Politicians to fix complex problems (often caused by other politicians it has to be said) but the actual calibre of people elected is pretty poor in many (not all) cases.
6. Politicians and their families are too frequently considered to be fair game for personal and/or physical attacks
7. Any mistake, any misdemeanour has the press and others howling for your head
So who wants to get involved in that world? Poor job security, the pay isn't brilliant for the responsibilities involved, and no matter what you do half the country will still hate you.
Politics therefore attracts in the main a particular subset of people for all the parties. Some genuinely want to serve the country and its people, some are entirely self serving, some start out with good intentions and just lose their way, and some have delusions of capability far beyond the reality.
By and large, the truly capable, the genuinely forward thinking, the moral, honest and decent folk no longer bother with politics because its a waste of time. If you have talent, drive ability and integrity, why would you want to engage in any of the above when other careers would be more rewarding, more secure and less stressful for you and your family? The question is, how on earth do we tempt them back?
Good post, and one i almost entirely agree with. 1. Too many voters has come to expect that fixing stuff is the responsibility or at least to be paid for by someone, anyone else but themselves.
2. The standard of political debate is incredibly poor these days. Nobody wants to say the difficult stuff that needs to be said.
3. Nobody wants to make choices, especially if those choices might piss somebody/some section of the media off.
4. The media is increasingly toxic, but then the public lap up that toxicity, so we can only expect it to get worse
5. We expect Politicians to fix complex problems (often caused by other politicians it has to be said) but the actual calibre of people elected is pretty poor in many (not all) cases.
6. Politicians and their families are too frequently considered to be fair game for personal and/or physical attacks
7. Any mistake, any misdemeanour has the press and others howling for your head
So who wants to get involved in that world? Poor job security, the pay isn't brilliant for the responsibilities involved, and no matter what you do half the country will still hate you.
Politics therefore attracts in the main a particular subset of people for all the parties. Some genuinely want to serve the country and its people, some are entirely self serving, some start out with good intentions and just lose their way, and some have delusions of capability far beyond the reality.
By and large, the truly capable, the genuinely forward thinking, the moral, honest and decent folk no longer bother with politics because its a waste of time. If you have talent, drive ability and integrity, why would you want to engage in any of the above when other careers would be more rewarding, more secure and less stressful for you and your family? The question is, how on earth do we tempt them back?
MPs of all parties are justifiably paranoid about raising their heads above the parapets due to the risk of being vilified by (in no particular order) the press, the public or their peers.
S600BSB said:
pork911 said:
Apparently Menzies had been suspended from the unpaid, voluntary role aimed at boosting trade with Colombia, Chile, Peru and Argentina.
Did he sample the goods??sugerbear said:
I will ask the Tory supporters again - Did Mark Menzies pay income tax on the £14,000 money he took from his donations fund?
Dan Neidle suggests that it's not taxable: https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1780942633319...
Oakey said:
Rufus Stone said:
Why did he need the money, does he have a drugs problem or something?
Sounds like he's addicted to coke, sorry, I meant cock. Andy is correct though. £85k simply isn’t v much. If you wish to attract the calibre required, then you need to dbl the money. Can you imagine the outrage across the country though if that was suggested? It is simply not a viable political solution.
Pros of being an MP:
The pay is acceptable if not spectacular in the north
You can live and work in a nice rural area (if you are a Conservative)
You have a job for life if your seat is a safe one and you don't do something illegal or completely immoral
London flat on expenses
Loyalty points on the credit card or air miles when booking trains, buying food etc
Paid to do surveys which can add another few thousand
Can still do freelance work if you had another career
If you do lose your seat then you may have experience of the soft skills needed to take on a more senior position
Chance to serve your country
Chance to look into lots of different topics that you can't do elsewhere
Cons of being an MP:
Constant death/rape threats, including to your family
Many weeks working away
High pressure, stressful environment with a lot of bullying and backstabbing
If you live in London then an £85k salary is a pittance and hardly any expenses (probably the only job where being in the regions pays more than being in London)
Also work as a social worker rather than just a legislator
Crackdown on expenses means you can't top up your salary quite as much as you could before
80+ hour work weeks (which also adds to the risk of you doing something you shouldn't)
Constantly on the lookout for journalists rummaging through your bins trying to find anything to cost you your job
I think you'd have to be a nutter to take it in the current situation but there are a lot of good ones. They just don't get featured in the news.
The pay is acceptable if not spectacular in the north
You can live and work in a nice rural area (if you are a Conservative)
You have a job for life if your seat is a safe one and you don't do something illegal or completely immoral
London flat on expenses
Loyalty points on the credit card or air miles when booking trains, buying food etc
Paid to do surveys which can add another few thousand
Can still do freelance work if you had another career
If you do lose your seat then you may have experience of the soft skills needed to take on a more senior position
Chance to serve your country
Chance to look into lots of different topics that you can't do elsewhere
Cons of being an MP:
Constant death/rape threats, including to your family
Many weeks working away
High pressure, stressful environment with a lot of bullying and backstabbing
If you live in London then an £85k salary is a pittance and hardly any expenses (probably the only job where being in the regions pays more than being in London)
Also work as a social worker rather than just a legislator
Crackdown on expenses means you can't top up your salary quite as much as you could before
80+ hour work weeks (which also adds to the risk of you doing something you shouldn't)
Constantly on the lookout for journalists rummaging through your bins trying to find anything to cost you your job
I think you'd have to be a nutter to take it in the current situation but there are a lot of good ones. They just don't get featured in the news.
Give the poor fellow a break. It was just a misunderstanding with one of his lady friends after he forgot the safety word.
"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
ATG said:
Give the poor fellow a break. It was just a misunderstanding with one of his lady friends after he forgot the safety word.
"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
Sounds like you speak from experience.."I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
rustyuk said:
I'm not sure paying more would lead to a higher calibre of MP. Maybe making the role 100% voluntary would attract the right type of person 
That's what it used to be, but it meant that MPs could only be self-supporting, so had to be rich enough to survive four or five years without any income. Obviously this meant that only the landed gentry and independently wealthy could become MPs.I know a lot of our current crop still sall into that camp, but there is at least hte possibility of someone from a working class background getting to be an MP.
MPs should have to A. Have had a job outside politics for five years B. Town council .C District - if you go straight into being an MP with no idea how local gouvernment works, you lack half the understanding. The wage should be just under the cliff at 120k.
All local roles, from Town council upwards, should be nominally paid. Part of the sclerotic nature of this county is explained by town councillors all being retired busybodies with no idea what the f
k is going on and no skin in the game. Same with District - you get sod all for doing it. 12k. It’s not enough. People, obviously, skip the ‘learning how money gets spent’ bit. It’s pure madness.
All local roles, from Town council upwards, should be nominally paid. Part of the sclerotic nature of this county is explained by town councillors all being retired busybodies with no idea what the f
k is going on and no skin in the game. Same with District - you get sod all for doing it. 12k. It’s not enough. People, obviously, skip the ‘learning how money gets spent’ bit. It’s pure madness. ATG said:
Give the poor fellow a break. It was just a misunderstanding with one of his lady friends after he forgot the safety word.
"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
Lady friend?"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/30/t...
Evanivitch said:
ATG said:
Give the poor fellow a break. It was just a misunderstanding with one of his lady friends after he forgot the safety word.
"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
Lady friend?"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/30/t...
S600BSB said:
Evanivitch said:
ATG said:
Give the poor fellow a break. It was just a misunderstanding with one of his lady friends after he forgot the safety word.
"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
Lady friend?"I've been a bad boy."
Wallop.
"Yes, you've been a very bad boy."
She kept role playing, he thought she really wasn't letting him go. He starts offering her cash. She keeps saying "naughty boy" ... wallop. She's surprised and somewhat alarmed when other people seem to be joining in the fun and actually turn up with cash, but she's a pro so remains in character.
It could so, so easily happen to any of us.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/30/t...
andymadmak said:
Populism plus several other factors such as:
1. Too many voters has come to expect that fixing stuff is the responsibility or at least to be paid for by someone, anyone else but themselves.
2. The standard of political debate is incredibly poor these days. Nobody wants to say the difficult stuff that needs to be said.
3. Nobody wants to make choices, especially if those choices might piss somebody/some section of the media off.
4. The media is increasingly toxic, but then the public lap up that toxicity, so we can only expect it to get worse
5. We expect Politicians to fix complex problems (often caused by other politicians it has to be said) but the actual calibre of people elected is pretty poor in many (not all) cases.
6. Politicians and their families are too frequently considered to be fair game for personal and/or physical attacks
7. Any mistake, any misdemeanour has the press and others howling for your head
So who wants to get involved in that world? Poor job security, the pay isn't brilliant for the responsibilities involved, and no matter what you do half the country will still hate you.
Politics therefore attracts in the main a particular subset of people for all the parties. Some genuinely want to serve the country and its people, some are entirely self serving, some start out with good intentions and just lose their way, and some have delusions of capability far beyond the reality.
By and large, the truly capable, the genuinely forward thinking, the moral, honest and decent folk no longer bother with politics because its a waste of time. If you have talent, drive ability and integrity, why would you want to engage in any of the above when other careers would be more rewarding, more secure and less stressful for you and your family? The question is, how on earth do we tempt them back?
A few years ago I thought very seriously about putting my name forward as an MP. Put in a decent about of ground work to make it happen. Ultimately, for many of the reasons you mention, I decided it wasn't for me. 1. Too many voters has come to expect that fixing stuff is the responsibility or at least to be paid for by someone, anyone else but themselves.
2. The standard of political debate is incredibly poor these days. Nobody wants to say the difficult stuff that needs to be said.
3. Nobody wants to make choices, especially if those choices might piss somebody/some section of the media off.
4. The media is increasingly toxic, but then the public lap up that toxicity, so we can only expect it to get worse
5. We expect Politicians to fix complex problems (often caused by other politicians it has to be said) but the actual calibre of people elected is pretty poor in many (not all) cases.
6. Politicians and their families are too frequently considered to be fair game for personal and/or physical attacks
7. Any mistake, any misdemeanour has the press and others howling for your head
So who wants to get involved in that world? Poor job security, the pay isn't brilliant for the responsibilities involved, and no matter what you do half the country will still hate you.
Politics therefore attracts in the main a particular subset of people for all the parties. Some genuinely want to serve the country and its people, some are entirely self serving, some start out with good intentions and just lose their way, and some have delusions of capability far beyond the reality.
By and large, the truly capable, the genuinely forward thinking, the moral, honest and decent folk no longer bother with politics because its a waste of time. If you have talent, drive ability and integrity, why would you want to engage in any of the above when other careers would be more rewarding, more secure and less stressful for you and your family? The question is, how on earth do we tempt them back?
One additional factor which swayed my decision; the more MPs I met in person, the more I realised I wasn't much like them. It's usually not good to generalise, but it was genuinely odd. I like to have a discussion with most people as I can usually learn something, but there was something rather hollow about all the MPs I met (and some of the other people I met who also wanted to be an MP) . It really was quite strange once I noticed it.
S600BSB said:
Surely this is one for the police to investigate - bad people, drugs, extortion etc etc. Odd that it has been known about for a few months and they aren’t already conducting an investigation.
For the Police to be involved you need a victim and a complainant No victim, no crime
They don’t magically suddenly become involved
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