So are Landlords finished?

[Biggy Stardust]

cheesejunkie said:

I'll let you into a little secret biggy, I've been a landlord, I know how easy it is and I know the pain points. It's not a real job.

God knows who that last tenant was but that's not typical.

Of course it's emotive but it's also factual. The UK government wants to preserve the value of housing. Has at every opportunity decided on the policy flop not to hurt housing owners. Supports nimbyism. Maintains the legacy of a feudalistic system where landlords had rights. We might no longer have robber barons but we do have a few who'd like to be.

I didn't anticipate answers to my questions so it's all good.

[philv]

cheesejunkie said:

Fully agreed. I do wonder how long that two tier system can continue. I'm much older than gen alpha but I keep reading about how the levels of unfairness due to inherited wealth and those without it is getting worse and could be coming to an inflection point. If they voted in numbers it would, sadly many don't.

Never had an inheritance but I didn't need one to get ahead. I would now. I read posters on here sometimes talking about how they've saved housing deposits etc for their children and think all that money that's being wasted around the country would be better spent on business investment but that's the system. Some think they're rich buying houses off each other.

I tend to be of the opinion that come the revolution screw the landlords, I'll know where to stick my pitchfork, if they'd any sense they'd not have got so fat and greedy.

Having to do a bit of painting and decorating in between taking money from someone else won't get my sympathy.

Having a bit of fun with this post obviously but we're in a country where many can't afford housing and some would like to preserve that situation. How long can it continue?

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

You are commenting on landlords when you seem to have absolutely no idea of the risk and hassle inboled in beign a landlord.

Do you not read other posts where someone writes that they spend 10k to evict a non paying tenant?

I have had non paying tenants, abusive tenants, filthy tenants.
An do course some nice ones.

Doing it again, i probably wouldn't have bothered.

It can be very stressful.

That's the reason we have the problem.
Ignorance or denial o the real causes o the problems.

People just like to believe its the greedy landlords doing a bit of decorsting and raking in a fortune.

There's some utter bks written in this thread.

[Killboy]

98elise said:

Would you say that was typical for let's on your area? I'm not suggesting every rental property is perfect, but it's nothing like it's being made out to be. As I've said it's easy to check what's available on rightmove.

Not sure what you mean by the last line?

I refurbish my properties before they're let. As a minimum that's full redecoration and new carpets. If it needs it I do the bathroom and kitchen.
Of the 4 I have left (I've sold 2) 3 had new kitchens, 2 had new bathrooms. 1 had new kitchen doors and worktops as the cupboards were sound, and the layout was fine.

Before....



After...



When a tenant leaves I will refurbish them again before being re-let (or sold).

Edited by 98elise on Thursday 25th April 16:07

Wow, the property got worse with the refurb

It's exactly did say. I've rented in London for 11 years before buying, and have experienced all sorts. Phone a landlord to tell them of a leak and water damage, and rather than fix it they show up to paint over it and hide it. I've never had a landlord to preventative maintenance either.

Properties listed on rental sites are going to look their "best". I'd be much more interested in seeing what with landlords have done to long term rentals while occupants are living there. Bodge job galore!

[ITP]

I guess all the people moaning about private landlords, of course all of them being evil, would much rather have a faceless corporate landlord. Everything would be great then, of course this is what is being pushed by governments, ultimately the purchase of many many, if not all homes by corporate entities. Think that will be better? Think it will make it easier to one day buy your own home? Good luck with that, be careful what you wish for.

[nickfrog]

Yes, quite a manichean view.

[98elise]

Killboy said:

98elise said:

Would you say that was typical for let's on your area? I'm not suggesting every rental property is perfect, but it's nothing like it's being made out to be. As I've said it's easy to check what's available on rightmove.

Not sure what you mean by the last line?

I refurbish my properties before they're let. As a minimum that's full redecoration and new carpets. If it needs it I do the bathroom and kitchen.
Of the 4 I have left (I've sold 2) 3 had new kitchens, 2 had new bathrooms. 1 had new kitchen doors and worktops as the cupboards were sound, and the layout was fine.

Before....



After...



When a tenant leaves I will refurbish them again before being re-let (or sold).

Edited by 98elise on Thursday 25th April 16:07

Wow, the property got worse with the refurb

It's exactly did say. I've rented in London for 11 years before buying, and have experienced all sorts. Phone a landlord to tell them of a leak and water damage, and rather than fix it they show up to paint over it and hide it. I've never had a landlord to preventative maintenance either.

Properties listed on rental sites are going to look their "best". I'd be much more interested in seeing what with landlords have done to long term rentals while occupants are living there. Bodge job galore!

Well the tenant liked it. Shaker style is pretty standard on a modern kitchen. It was certainly better than the worn worktops and 1980's beige laminate doors. Maybe you like that look? I suppose somebody must!

"It's exactly did say?" Not sure what that means. Apologies if your first language isn't English but I'm still none the wiser from your first post.

Properties look their best on rightmove because that's when you're renting it. What preventative maintenance are you expecting after that? I can't think of anything that needs servicing or maintenance beyond the gas and electrical safety stuff.

Edited by 98elise on Friday 26th April 07:28

[cheesejunkie]

philv said:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

You are commenting on landlords when you seem to have absolutely no idea of the risk and hassle inboled in beign a landlord.

Do you not read other posts where someone writes that they spend 10k to evict a non paying tenant?

I have had non paying tenants, abusive tenants, filthy tenants.
An do course some nice ones.

Doing it again, i probably wouldn't have bothered.

It can be very stressful.

That's the reason we have the problem.
Ignorance or denial o the real causes o the problems.

People just like to believe its the greedy landlords doing a bit of decorsting and raking in a fortune.

There's some utter bks written in this thread.

Fantastic failure at reading comprehension, I’ve been a landlord. I’ve said some kind words and some rude words.

The real reason we have the problem is landlords are a defended species. They are most certainly not the worst sufferers in society.

[Biggy Stardust]

cheesejunkie said:

Fantastic failure at reading comprehension, I’ve been a landlord. I’ve said some kind words and some rude words.

The real reason we have the problem is landlords are a defended species. They are most certainly not the worst sufferers in society.

Having considered your comments I would reply as follows: bks; utter bks.

[Panamax]

JagLover said:

79% of over 65s own their own home, the vast majority mortgage free.

Show me a 65+ year old who can get a mortgage. If they don't already own their own home they're toast.

There's always the world of "equity release". Advertised on TV right next to collectible "gold" coins of Winston Churchill/Spitfires and environmentally friendly funerals. Sign up to give just £3 a month so we can save the donkeys, children and landlords.

[NRS]

Biggy Stardust said:

cheesejunkie said:

I tend to be of the opinion that come the revolution screw the landlords, I'll know where to stick my pitchfork, if they'd any sense they'd not have got so fat and greedy.

Having to do a bit of painting and decorating in between taking money from someone else won't get my sympathy.

Having a bit of fun with this post obviously but we're in a country where many can't afford housing and some would like to preserve that situation. How long can it continue?

This seems very emotive rather than factual. Who exactly wishes to preserve the situation where many can't afford housing? Not some indefinably "them", specifically who? Also who exactly is "fat & greedy"? Please show specific examples in quantities that aren't statistically insignificant.

"A bit of painting & decorating" in my last tenancy renewal meant replacing literally every door in the house & a few of their frames, repairing holes in walls & one ceiling, removing piles of junk left behind, replacing smashed lights and half the kitchen. Don't pretend it doesn't happen because it's surprisingly common.

Plenty of people don't actually talk about the issue, or are very skewed in their response. According to the LLs on this thread increased competition to buy a house from LL's buying doesn't impact house prices, but increased competition from LL's selling does. And the people who buy a sold LL house just appear from nowhere, it's not that 1 buyer means 1 less renter somehow.

I doubt anyone would post that they don't want things to change, but when changes happen it's an attack on LLs. Yes, there is a risk to owning and renting property. Most LLs on here are making out the huge risk and cost of renting is really high. Yet if the whole business case had been poor you'd have not owned 4+ properties for a lot of you. I'd be very interested if any of you would post how much you had made off the properties (rental profits and house price increases). I suspect it is large sums, which would illustrate part of the problem of the system for young people these days.

[Biggy Stardust]

NRS said:

Plenty of people don't actually talk about the issue, or are very skewed in their response. According to the LLs on this thread increased competition to buy a house from LL's buying doesn't impact house prices, but increased competition from LL's selling does. And the people who buy a sold LL house just appear from nowhere, it's not that 1 buyer means 1 less renter somehow.

I doubt anyone would post that they don't want things to change, but when changes happen it's an attack on LLs. Yes, there is a risk to owning and renting property. Most LLs on here are making out the huge risk and cost of renting is really high. Yet if the whole business case had been poor you'd have not owned 4+ properties for a lot of you. I'd be very interested if any of you would post how much you had made off the properties (rental profits and house price increases). I suspect it is large sums, which would illustrate part of the problem of the system for young people these days.

I owned 10, then the government started moving the goalposts. It went from being decent business to being incredibly high risk for very little money. I made money but I'm now seeing it being not worth the risk & aggravation. As do many.

[philv]

cheesejunkie said:

Fantastic failure at reading comprehension, I’ve been a landlord. I’ve said some kind words and some rude words.

The real reason we have the problem is landlords are a defended species. They are most certainly not the worst sufferers in society.

Clearly landlords are not a defended species as they have been the focus of attacks for quite a while now.

[philv]

People argue that btl has pushed up prices and the solution is to get rid of btl to allow first time buyers to be able to get on the property ladder.

But this solves half the problem at the expense of making the other half of the problem worse.
Ie reducing the rental supply and increasing rents.

There are simply not enough properties.

[cheesejunkie]

Biggy Stardust said:

Your comments about LLs being a defended species- I've seldom heard such inaccuracy.

Okay.,, tell me how that campaign to remove no fault evictions is going with Gove in charge.

Landlords are protected. They like a good whinge because they have influence. They’re not suffering half as much as their tenants. But yes some will imply all tenants are scum and they’re providing a service, the truth is very different.

You’re not saying all tenants are scum but you’re borderline cruising.

[cheesejunkie]

philv said:

People argue that btl has pushed up prices and the solution is to get rid of btl to allow first time buyers to be able to get on the property ladder.

But this solves half the problem at the expense of making the other half of the problem worse.
Ie reducing the rental supply and increasing rents.

There are simply not enough properties.

Build more, let property values fall if that’s a result. Political suicide but the only way out of the problem.

[NRS]

Biggy Stardust said:

NRS said:

Plenty of people don't actually talk about the issue, or are very skewed in their response. According to the LLs on this thread increased competition to buy a house from LL's buying doesn't impact house prices, but increased competition from LL's selling does. And the people who buy a sold LL house just appear from nowhere, it's not that 1 buyer means 1 less renter somehow.

I doubt anyone would post that they don't want things to change, but when changes happen it's an attack on LLs. Yes, there is a risk to owning and renting property. Most LLs on here are making out the huge risk and cost of renting is really high. Yet if the whole business case had been poor you'd have not owned 4+ properties for a lot of you. I'd be very interested if any of you would post how much you had made off the properties (rental profits and house price increases). I suspect it is large sums, which would illustrate part of the problem of the system for young people these days.

I owned 10, then the government started moving the goalposts. It went from being decent business to being incredibly high risk for very little money. I made money but I'm now seeing it being not worth the risk & aggravation. As do many.

I can completely understand that, even if the rules were completely the same the financial environment would make it far harder because the mortgage (if still there) would have a much higher cost than the last few decades due to interest rates. But that wasn't the point, I'd hazard a guess a lot of the landlords have made hundreds of thousands over the past few decades when you add in the money from the rent and the house price increases. Of course it might be different if you're renting out low end properties like Groak in Glasgow where house prices won't go anywhere and it's more on higher % profits (but higher risk), versus somewhere like London where a lot of the rises would be in the house prices.

But making large profits like that is like any other business, it will be taxed when we have to cover far more expenses as a country. And it's likely to be targetted even more given that it don't contribute to economic growth but just moves money typically from poorer people to richer people who can afford the deposits. There is some people who will need renting anyway, but in a lot of cases young renters want to buy but just can't afford it. Landlords take advantage of this by using their wealth to grab properties and earn money of those who can't afford to, which also makes it harder for them to afford to buy later. See one of the posts above where someone was saying a landlord should push the prices as high as possible now in case of rent limits coming in - it's not about what their costs are, just about profits. The house could be paid off, yet most LLs will increase prices to the "market price" - in cases of a paid off house that will be a huge profit each month (but with risk of course, if you have a bad tenant).

[NRS]

cheesejunkie said:

philv said:

People argue that btl has pushed up prices and the solution is to get rid of btl to allow first time buyers to be able to get on the property ladder.

But this solves half the problem at the expense of making the other half of the problem worse.
Ie reducing the rental supply and increasing rents.

There are simply not enough properties.

Build more, let property values fall if that’s a result. Political suicide but the only way out of the problem.

And spread jobs around the company more evenly to create better growth opportunities. Less people concentrated in one place, less pressure on house prices.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

White-Noise said:

NerveAgent said:

Biggy Stardust said:

NerveAgent said:

Careful, landlords are a very fragile people.

Many, sick of the incessant attacks, have got out of BTL. This has caused shortages & rent rises. Ireland is several years ahead of us on this path and is now beginning to realise the consequences of their actions against landlords.

The solution for UK is not to continue the attacks.

So many attacks

It's a serious problem. Landlords are moving out of the rental market increasingly due to the changes being made and its helping push rents up. Folks can't afford to rent let alone buy. A lot of people are not laughing on both sides.

Eh? When monthly rent costs way above what a mortgage that's not 'poor landlords'. Around my area houses sell very quickly then appear on the rental market at crazy prices.

First time buyers can't get a look in.

Poor landlords hey. Let's think about their portfolios.

[98elise]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

White-Noise said:

NerveAgent said:

Biggy Stardust said:

NerveAgent said:

Careful, landlords are a very fragile people.

Many, sick of the incessant attacks, have got out of BTL. This has caused shortages & rent rises. Ireland is several years ahead of us on this path and is now beginning to realise the consequences of their actions against landlords.

The solution for UK is not to continue the attacks.

So many attacks

It's a serious problem. Landlords are moving out of the rental market increasingly due to the changes being made and its helping push rents up. Folks can't afford to rent let alone buy. A lot of people are not laughing on both sides.

Eh? When monthly rent costs way above what a mortgage that's not 'poor landlords'. Around my area houses sell very quickly then appear on the rental market at crazy prices.

First time buyers can't get a look in.

Poor landlords hey. Let's think about their portfolios.

What area out of interest? That would mean your area is beating average yields by some margin.

[nickfrog]

Different people make different choices when it comes to investments and pension provision, including property. Some even diversify across different asset classes, big shock.
The problem with property investment is that it's a little bit more visible and it looks more like you're "exploiting" others. Hence the bitterness against LL.