Texas- voters to decide on alternative to Darwinism....

[Einion Yrth]

[jmorgan]

OK, I was wrong.....

[him_over_there]

ben_reza said:

Personally, i believe in creation.. but there are aspects of evolution (what i know of it) that i agree with. Does that make me a bad christian? i dont think so.

What parts of evolution do you not agree with ?

Do you believe God made man in the form he is today, or do you believe that he made primitive cellular life millions of years ago and let it evolve, meanwhile crossing his fingers hoping that eventually it would lead to man.

What did god do in those intervening years ? He must have been bored stless.

Do you believe the earth is 10000 years old ?

[AJS-]

sstein said:

AJS- said:

How come humans don't turn into monkeys anymore?

I think the one massive evolutionary advantage we have come up with is communication which is sufficient to pass the knowledge of one generation on to the next. Chimps use tools, many animals warn each other of dangers, some micro organisms farm other organisms for food, yet none pass on their knowledge as building blocks to others.

If you look at any of the great apes they really aren't that far behind us in many ways, the key difference is that they approach something like a door as entirely new with no point of reference, and it is, understandably, mind boggling. A human on the other hand is able to use doors, machinery and computers by building on what he has learned from older humans.

I may be wrong, but I imagine the big difference would be in our thumbs and fingers no ?

I think we have a lot more dexterity in our thumbs and a better grip, so you could have an ape that is super intelligent, but it is never going to have the grip and accuracy to be able to utilise tools effectively ?

Or am I way wrong ? And really it was hiring chimps to build cars that was Rovers ultimate demise ?

-

Stuart

Haven't studied it enough to have any hard and fast conclusions, but I am lucky enough to have seen Orangutans fairly close up, and they are quite dexterous. Not brain surgeon style, but they have very human like hands, and they have them on their feet too. I'm sure they would be physically capable of striking a match, turning a tap on and most other things that humans routinely do.

I still think inherited knowledge is a greater advantage than pretty much any physical attribute. If we had to re-invent everything in our lives we probably wouldn't even get as far as fire most of the time, especially as food and shelter would be occupying most of our time, as it does for Orangutans.

[ninja-lewis]

There was an article in the Economist at Christmas that suggested Homos Sapiens advantage came from learning to use fire for cooking. Cooking food made it easier to digest thus less energy required to consume it. With less need to spend all our time and energy on feeding ourselves, the extra energy was directed towards the development of the brain.

[Einion Yrth]

ninja-lewis said:

There was an article in the Economist at Christmas that suggested Homos Sapiens advantage came from learning to use fire for cooking. Cooking food made it easier to digest thus less energy required to consume it. With less need to spend all our time and energy on feeding ourselves, the extra energy was directed towards the development of the brain.

One might suggest that the mastery of fire required pretty good brain development in the first place.

[jonnyb]

Einion Yrth said:

ninja-lewis said:

There was an article in the Economist at Christmas that suggested Homos Sapiens advantage came from learning to use fire for cooking. Cooking food made it easier to digest thus less energy required to consume it. With less need to spend all our time and energy on feeding ourselves, the extra energy was directed towards the development of the brain.

One might suggest that the mastery of fire required pretty good brain development in the first place.

A similar article was in BBC Focus magazine.

I am currently reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and its well worth the read for those of a scientific persuasion. Probably one to avoid if you think your the Pope.

As for Evolution, it is a theory in the strict scientific sence of the word, but one that has been proved by experiment and observation at every opportunity for the last 150 years.

[ben_reza]

him_over_there said:

ben_reza said:

Personally, i believe in creation.. but there are aspects of evolution (what i know of it) that i agree with. Does that make me a bad christian? i dont think so.

What parts of evolution do you not agree with ?

Do you believe God made man in the form he is today, or do you believe that he made primitive cellular life millions of years ago and let it evolve, meanwhile crossing his fingers hoping that eventually it would lead to man.

What did god do in those intervening years ? He must have been bored stless.

Do you believe the earth is 10000 years old ?

What parts do i beleive in? im no expert and wouldnt profess to be. i agree that something can adapt, or evolve, to suit its surroundings. to what extent that evolution takes place over huge amounts of time.. i dont know.

I dont think the days of creation were literal 24 hour periods. maybe thats another discusion entirely!
What was gods methods for creation? i would reason the laws of physics would still apply, so even if creation might seem miraculous- there would be an explanation to how it happened.. just that we dont know that explanation.

Is the earth 10'000 years old. I dont know.

I would add, before putting my fire proof suit on, thats just because i beleive that, i dont think everyone has to agree with me.

[tuglet]

Schmeeky said:

tuglet said:

I ordered the Tree of Life poster from the BBC web site; it arrived on Saturday. I stuck it on the kitchen wall and my ten year old daughter asked what it was. I did my best to explain the process of evolution, and who Charles Darwin was. When I had finished, she thought for a while before saying simply, "Does that mean there's no god?"

Smart kid you have there Tuggers! She's bang on the money!

I had a tear in my eye. Four years at Catholic school clearly wasn't long enough to brain wash her

[jmorgan]

ben_reza said:

Is the earth 10'000 years old. I dont know.

Can you elaborate? I think there lies the nubbin?

Personally I have an interest in stuff such as this so will soak up books and documentaries etc. Take the 10,000 years comment. You can if you wish research the subject. It will show a few methods used to verify age of rocks fossils etc or how observations in geology have helped date things. So saying I don't know, is it a case of not believing the existing methods?

Just trying to understand your stance.

[ben_reza]

jmorgan said:

ben_reza said:

Is the earth 10'000 years old? I dont know.

Can you elaborate? I think there lies the nubbin?

Elaborate? I was asked what I thought of that in a previous post.

him_over_there said:

Do you believe the earth is 10000 years old ?

Edited by ben_reza on Tuesday 24th March 14:25

[BiggusLaddus]

tinman0 said:

I have two problems with evolution. 1 is time scales.

For instance, a little horse (about the size of a dog) became a big horse (like we have today) over 300m years. Yeah, not exactly a great advance since the earth is 4bn years old or so. 10% of the earths time was taken with the horse becoming bigger. In the same amount of time, man went from ape to moron?

You are a factor of ten out. First horse was around ~50m years ago, so that is only 1% of the Earth's history spent making it bigger and apes into morons. 300m years ago pre-dates the dinosaurs.

[SkinnyBoy]

its a moot point anyway, as everyone really knows, life here came from out there....

[Jasandjules]

ben_reza said:

Is the earth 10'000 years old. I dont know.

I do. I have a tooth from a Megalodon - over 3 million years old. It's awesome.

[deckster]

Jasandjules said:

ben_reza said:

Is the earth 10'000 years old. I dont know.

I do. I have a tooth from a Megalodon - over 3 million years old. It's awesome.

Must be a bugger to brush though. What does your dentist think?

[Jimbeaux]

deckster said:

Jasandjules said:

ben_reza said:

Is the earth 10'000 years old. I dont know.

I do. I have a tooth from a Megalodon - over 3 million years old. It's awesome.

Must be a bugger to brush though. What does your dentist think?

It was a British Megalodon....it didn't brush!

[Mr Fenix]

Sigh...


America could be great if it wasn't for the South, Texas especially. There are a few decently educated Texans but for the most part THEY are the stereo typed Yank. Loud, rude, "good old boys wit der hound dawgs" seriously...its the dumbest and fattest state in the Union. The guys there think they are some sort of hard as nails cowboy type, in reality they're just obese, brash, ignorant, fking moronic fkwitts.

I personally feel that Darwinism can be taught in schools along with a little bit of creationism in religious education classes. NOT THE SCIENCE ONES!

I'm off to watch Bill Maher's "Religulous" which sees him travel all over the world and question many religions...with hilarious results.

[Jasandjules]

deckster said:

Must be a bugger to brush though. What does your dentist think?

He thinks it's cool. It came ready brushed and polished so I don't have to.. Very handy for steak dinners as well.....

[Jimbeaux]

Mr Fenix said:

Sigh...


America could be great if it wasn't for the South, Texas especially. There are a few decently educated Texans but for the most part THEY are the stereo typed Yank. Loud, rude, "good old boys wit der hound dawgs" seriously...its the dumbest and fattest state in the Union. The guys there think they are some sort of hard as nails cowboy type, in reality they're just obese, brash, ignorant, fking moronic fkwitts.

What a seriously broad and ignorant statement. Do you expect to be taken seriously? Texas is larger than France & Austria combined. Do you feel qualified to typecast that many people? Have you met them all? Your "South" broadbrushing is even further ignorance as it is comprised of about 11 states and produces a vast amount of manufacturing and agricultural goods.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 25th March 16:45

[samuelellis]

If they do teach creationalism then what religion will they teach

I for one think they should teach creationalism as per the church of the flying spaghetti monster - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Mons...