French passenger jet gone missing from radar screens........

[dan1981]

Either that or he's taking the wrecked-canoe-on-a-beach-escape to a whole new level.

[john_p]

Rob P said:

A few websites say the black box "might" float.

Surely it should be designed to float as a major design requirement?! Where is it usually located? I guess the risk is that it goes down with the aircraft and sinks.

They are usually bolted into the tail area and I'd imagine they would be secured to quite a large bit of metal so even if they did float on their own, they'd be dragged underwater by wreckage.

If the aircraft came down near those rocks, then hopefully the surrounding sea level is not too low and the boxes can be recovered.

[AKA8]

weren't there reports some time ago about design faults on the tail of A300's? Something to do with the composites used in the tail not being totally understood from what I remember.

[Invisible man]

AKA8 said:

weren't there reports some time ago about design faults on the tail of A300's? Something to do with the composites used in the tail not being totally understood from what I remember.

Flight 587, over enthusiastic rudder command could cause them to fail

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Fli...

[Eric Mc]

AKA8 said:

weren't there reports some time ago about design faults on the tail of A300's? Something to do with the composites used in the tail not being totally understood from what I remember.

The Air France aircraft was an A330, noit an A300. There are some family links between the two aircraft but the A330 is a separate design. However, they both use composite tailfins and I have no doubt investigators will try to establish if fin-failure was a factor in the accident.

[Deva Link]

Legend83 said:

Interesting to note that Arthur Coakley, the oil rig worker who was suspected to have been on the plane, has not been released as being on the official roster.

Coupled with his wife claiming his phone was still ringing - miracle escape perhaps?

My missus commented that his wife and business partner didn't look very upset when they appeared on TV. OTOH if they had been trying anything on then I presume there would have been much theatrical wailing.

[Invisible man]

Eric Mc said:

AKA8 said:

weren't there reports some time ago about design faults on the tail of A300's? Something to do with the composites used in the tail not being totally understood from what I remember.

The Air France aircraft was an A330, noit an A300. There are some family links between the two aircraft but the A330 is a separate design. However, they both use composite tailfins and I have no doubt investigators will try to establish if fin-failure was a factor in the accident.

A300 isn't FBW either

[Eric Mc]

Fly by wire Airbuses -

A318
A319
A320
A321
A330
A340
A350
A380

Non-fly by wire Airbuses
A300
A310

[s3fella]

I also thought the Interview with the Wife on the news was a little strange. I mean you can only wonder how people may react, but she did seem a bit weird. Is there an official pasenger list anywhere been published?

[King Herald]

cottonfoo said:

Cas_P said:

So much speculation....

You should have seen the carnage on pprune.

Those poor souls, families and friends

The vice president and an employee of a division of my company were on the plane. We just had an announcement.

I would have been on that flight tonight if things had gone differently.

Schlumberger President said:

It is with deep personal regret that I inform you that Andres Suarez, Vice President of Wireline for Latin America, and Alexander Bjoroy, son of Robin and Jane Bjoroy, were on board Air France flight 447 to Paris lost over the Atlantic on Monday June 1st.

Andres had just been promoted and was on his way to Paris to take his new slot.

[Invisible man]

King Herald said:

cottonfoo said:

Cas_P said:

So much speculation....

You should have seen the carnage on pprune.

Those poor souls, families and friends

The vice president and an employee of a division of my company were on the plane. We just had an announcement.

I would have been on that flight tonight if things had gone differently.

Schlumberger President said:

It is with deep personal regret that I inform you that Andres Suarez, Vice President of Wireline for Latin America, and Alexander Bjoroy, son of Robin and Jane Bjoroy, were on board Air France flight 447 to Paris lost over the Atlantic on Monday June 1st.

Andres had just been promoted and was on his way to Paris to take his new slot.

that's a bit close to home fella.....

[Podie]

s3fella said:

I also thought the Interview with the Wife on the news was a little strange. I mean you can only wonder how people may react, but she did seem a bit weird. Is there an official pasenger list anywhere been published?

The woman has lost her husband - do you expect her to be "all there"..?

Personally I think it's more wierd that people want to interview her and film the reaction of people waiting for news.

[TimJMS]

smack said:

I remember that one at the time, amazing only one died. Also the problems they had with the cargo doors on 747's years ago, which resulted in the incident with United Airlines...

You are probably thinking of the DC10, which is the only modern airliner I can think of since the Comet that had repeated catastrophic structural failures due to the major design flaw in a cargo bay door, and was eventually rectified after several incidents.

[Roop]

AKA8 said:

weren't there reports some time ago about design faults on the tail of A300's? Something to do with the composites used in the tail not being totally understood from what I remember.

Airbus don't make all-composite aircraft because they don't believe they have enough experience to do so. Boeing who traditionally make all metal aircraft just turned out the all-composite B787. Makes you wonder, especially as Boeing are allegedly having significant difficulties with the new bird...

[Traveller]

TimJMS said:

smack said:

I remember that one at the time, amazing only one died. Also the problems they had with the cargo doors on 747's years ago, which resulted in the incident with United Airlines...

You are probably thinking of the DC10, which is the only modern airliner I can think of since the Comet that had repeated catastrophic structural failures due to the major design flaw in a cargo bay door, and was eventually rectified after several incidents.

There was a 747 cargo door accident, where there door was not closed properly, and the secondary cam locks actually bent allowing the door to look closed but actually not closed completely, and the plane had an explosive decompression. Although the 747 did not have the almost complete control loss or cabin floor failure like the DC10 due to the different design. There is a discovery channel documentary on the accident.

[mattdaniels]

TimJMS said:

You are probably thinking of the DC10

The United Airlines flight 811 he's quoting was definitely a 747.

[Invisible man]

Roop said:

AKA8 said:

weren't there reports some time ago about design faults on the tail of A300's? Something to do with the composites used in the tail not being totally understood from what I remember.

Airbus don't make all-composite aircraft because they don't believe they have enough experience to do so. Boeing who traditionally make all metal aircraft just turned out the all-composite B787. Makes you wonder, especially as Boeing are allegedly having significant difficulties with the new bird...

No but they use composites in various critical components such as the tail fin attachment bolts which caused some concern in 'Flight 587'

[Eric Mc]

TimJMS said:

smack said:

I remember that one at the time, amazing only one died. Also the problems they had with the cargo doors on 747's years ago, which resulted in the incident with United Airlines...

You are probably thinking of the DC10, which is the only modern airliner I can think of since the Comet that had repeated catastrophic structural failures due to the major design flaw in a cargo bay door, and was eventually rectified after several incidents.

The DC-10 did indeed have a problem with cargo hold doors flying off. One DC-10 was NEARLY lost (American Airlines) in 1972 and one WAS lost (Turkish Airlines - THY) in 1974. These were down to a badly designed latching system on the doors which allowed them to appear locked when they were, in fact, not. McDD had recognised the problem after the AA incident and modified the design of the latching mechnisms and all newly built aircraft after 1972 had the new design of door and experienced no further problems.
The unfortunate circumstances of the THY crash was that the DC-10 involved was built BEFORE the modifications were carried out but remained unsold at Long Beach until delivered to THY in 1973. McDD should have modified the door while it was still sitting outside the factory. They didn't.

In 1989, a forward cargo door flew off a United Airlines Boeing 747, taking a number of passengers with it - and destroying an engine which ingested debris.

[Roop]

Invisible man said:

Roop said:

AKA8 said:

weren't there reports some time ago about design faults on the tail of A300's? Something to do with the composites used in the tail not being totally understood from what I remember.

Airbus don't make all-composite aircraft because they don't believe they have enough experience to do so. Boeing who traditionally make all metal aircraft just turned out the all-composite B787. Makes you wonder, especially as Boeing are allegedly having significant difficulties with the new bird...

No but they use composites in various critical components such as the tail fin attachment bolts which caused some concern in 'Flight 587'

Quite true, although the point I was making was that if Airbus with all their experience can have problems with composites on a hybrid metal/composite airframe then you have to wonder how Boeing are getting on with the all composite B787. From what I have heard, they are (allegedly*) having all sorts of difficulties.

This is in no way specualtive as to what may have happened to the midibus earlier this week, more a "if you think Toulouse has got problems, take a look at Seattle" comment...

* and other anti-litigation ad-lib

[Invisible man]

Roop said:

Invisible man said:

Roop said:

AKA8 said:

weren't there reports some time ago about design faults on the tail of A300's? Something to do with the composites used in the tail not being totally understood from what I remember.

Airbus don't make all-composite aircraft because they don't believe they have enough experience to do so. Boeing who traditionally make all metal aircraft just turned out the all-composite B787. Makes you wonder, especially as Boeing are allegedly having significant difficulties with the new bird...

No but they use composites in various critical components such as the tail fin attachment bolts which caused some concern in 'Flight 587'

Quite true, although the point I was making was that if Airbus with all their experience can have problems with composites on a hybrid metal/composite airframe then you have to wonder how Boeing are getting on with the all composite B787. From what I have heard, they are (allegedly*) having all sorts of difficulties.

This is in no way specualtive as to what may have happened to the midibus earlier this week, more a "if you think Toulouse has got problems, take a look at Seattle" comment...

* and other anti-litigation ad-lib

I think one of the big problems is telling how much stress a compo part has suffered? you can't repair em either so you have to wonder what would happen if someone drove a bowser into a wing etc