French passenger jet gone missing from radar screens........

[escargot]

I've just read on the BBC site that the plane would have run out of fuel by now so they're assuming the worst.

[adam85]

If that is the case then do you effectively lose all control of a "fly by wire" aircraft?

Scary!

[dan1981]

French source suggesting lightening strike?

I thought that was quite commonplace? (i may be wrong)

[Plotloss]

dan1981 said:

I thought that was quite commonplace? (i may be wrong)

Doesnt the old Faraday cage concept make planes immune from such things by nature?

[tank slapper]

shouldbworking said:

Surprises me that there isnt sufficient radar coverage to get a better idea of where it went down.

I think airliners should also carry radar sets, with the data sent to a remote station where the results could be overlapped to form effectively a corridor of full radar coverage in the air along busier routes.

Air traffic control radar only covers land areas, and is limited by the horizon. Unless a naval vessel with an air search radar or a carrier based E2 was up in the mid-atlantic, then determining the location is going to be very difficult. I imagine any such vessels will be reviewing their recordings as soon as they hear of it, but it has to be a long shot.

Airliners do carry radar, but it is a primarily for detecting weather rather than other aircraft.

[Invisible man]

Eric Mc said:

It sounds like electrical problems were occuring - but they may have been a symptom of a more serious underlying problem - like an engine failure, for instance.

The A330 is a Fly By Wire airliner so is very dependent on good electrical reliability to ensure the flight control computers and instrumentation work properly.

A total electrical failure is very, very unlikely and it will take a long hard search to get to the bottom of what went wrong.

First they need to locate where thge aircraft went down.

How would such an plane recover if it took a massive lightning strike, say it knocked out some CBs and knocked over the flight control computers, do they run on 28Vdc or require inverted 110Vac? can they reboot fast enough on the RAT?
There's no manual reversion in these things so loss of electrics is a biggie

[Adrian W]

Plotloss said:

dan1981 said:

I thought that was quite commonplace? (i may be wrong)

Doesnt the old Faraday cage concept make planes immune from such things by nature?

Yep

[Dunk76]

Invisible man said:

Eric Mc said:

It sounds like electrical problems were occuring - but they may have been a symptom of a more serious underlying problem - like an engine failure, for instance.

The A330 is a Fly By Wire airliner so is very dependent on good electrical reliability to ensure the flight control computers and instrumentation work properly.

A total electrical failure is very, very unlikely and it will take a long hard search to get to the bottom of what went wrong.

First they need to locate where thge aircraft went down.

How would such an plane recover if it took a massive lightning strike, say it knocked out some CBs and knocked over the flight control computers, do they run on 28Vdc or require inverted 110Vac? can they reboot fast enough on the RAT?
There's no manual reversion in these things so loss of electrics is a biggie

Given the fuss that Fly-By-Wire caused when it first began to appear in civil aircraft about this very subject, I can't imagine something as far down the evolutionary tree as the A330 is would be knocked out of the sky by something as relatively common as a lightning strike?

[Ayahuasca]

Adrian W said:

Plotloss said:

dan1981 said:

I thought that was quite commonplace? (i may be wrong)

Doesnt the old Faraday cage concept make planes immune from such things by nature?

Yep

In a metal plane that would be the case.

This is a plane made of composites.

[Plotloss]

Ayahuasca said:

In a metal plane that would be the case.

This is a plane made of composites.

Surely 'Plane Design 101' covers flying a big container full of people, right up in the air and lightning?

[bumblebee]

dan1981 said:

French source suggesting lightening strike?

I thought that was quite commonplace? (i may be wrong)

Not unusual. I've been struck 5 times in the past 10yrs. The worst damage has been a few melted rivet heads and some scorched paint on the fuselage. It can do more damge than that. I'd be more concerned about the Severe Turbulence near to the type of CBs you get with an active ITCZ.

I just hope to God they didn't have a Swissair 111 type situation to deal with.

[Invisible man]

Dunk76 said:

Invisible man said:

Eric Mc said:

It sounds like electrical problems were occuring - but they may have been a symptom of a more serious underlying problem - like an engine failure, for instance.

The A330 is a Fly By Wire airliner so is very dependent on good electrical reliability to ensure the flight control computers and instrumentation work properly.

A total electrical failure is very, very unlikely and it will take a long hard search to get to the bottom of what went wrong.

First they need to locate where thge aircraft went down.

How would such an plane recover if it took a massive lightning strike, say it knocked out some CBs and knocked over the flight control computers, do they run on 28Vdc or require inverted 110Vac? can they reboot fast enough on the RAT?
There's no manual reversion in these things so loss of electrics is a biggie

Given the fuss that Fly-By-Wire caused when it first began to appear in civil aircraft about this very subject, I can't imagine something as far down the evolutionary tree as the A330 is would be knocked out of the sky by something as relatively common as a lightning strike?

You'd hope so wouldn't you......like most incedents this'll probably be a chain of events with a lightning strike playing a part

[Rach*]

What happend to Swiss Air 111?

What does fly-by-wire-mean?


I hope by some small miracle they are found all alive

[OzzyR1]

Is this the same plane that was grounded by a "major electrical fault" not so long ago...??

http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2009/03/air-franc...

[grumbledoak]

Rach* said:

What does fly-by-wire-mean?

No mechanical connection between the pilot and the aircraft; all done by motors. So he cannot 'tough it out' if things go bad- no power = no control.


ETA- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111

Edited by grumbledoak on Monday 1st June 13:43

[dan1981]

bumblebee said:

dan1981 said:

French source suggesting lightening strike?

I thought that was quite commonplace? (i may be wrong)

Not unusual. I've been struck 5 times in the past 10yrs. The worst damage has been a few melted rivet heads and some scorched paint on the fuselage. It can do more damge than that. I'd be more concerned about the Severe Turbulence near to the type of CBs you get with an active ITCZ.

I just hope to God they didn't have a Swissair 111 type situation to deal with.

Sorry to be alittle thick but can someone explain this bit....

"I'd be more concerned about the Severe Turbulence near to the type of CBs you get with an active ITCZ."

Cheers

[Crusoe]

Rach* said:

What does fly-by-wire-mean?

same as a drive by wire throttle in a car, peddle not attached to a wire pulling a throttle cable but goes to a box of electronics that interprets what you wanted to do. Same for all the flight controls in a fully fly-by-wire system it's all computers and no actual manual control.

[ALawson]

OzzyR1 said:

Is this the same plane that was grounded by a "major electrical fault" not so long ago...??

http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2009/03/air-franc...

No, I think the last letter of the call sign is different, thats if the link on page 2 is correct.

[JB Rugby]

Electrics caught fire. Crew thought it was just a smell coming from the air con system. Fire got bigger and plane crashed.
more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111

Fly by wire means in simple terms that your controls aren't attached to your ailerons directly. It's a computer "talking" to another after interpreting the pilot's inputs.

some of today's cars get "throttle by wire".

ETA: that was for Rach* but I am wayyyyy too slow at typing.

Edited by JB Rugby on Monday 1st June 13:48

[schmalex]

dan1981 said:

bumblebee said:

dan1981 said:

French source suggesting lightening strike?

I thought that was quite commonplace? (i may be wrong)

Not unusual. I've been struck 5 times in the past 10yrs. The worst damage has been a few melted rivet heads and some scorched paint on the fuselage. It can do more damge than that. I'd be more concerned about the Severe Turbulence near to the type of CBs you get with an active ITCZ.

I just hope to God they didn't have a Swissair 111 type situation to deal with.

Sorry to be alittle thick but can someone explain this bit....

"I'd be more concerned about the Severe Turbulence near to the type of CBs you get with an active ITCZ."

Cheers

In laymans terms, I think he meant

It gets really fking bouncy Severe Turbulence near to the type of Cumulonimbus (big fluffy clouds) cb you get near to an active Intertropical Convergence Zone (a big area just on the equator where High & Low pressure systems converge) ITCZ

I might be wrong though

Edited by schmalex on Monday 1st June 13:49