Shades of criminality?
Discussion
A contentious one for you this morning.
A 21 year old chasing a 15 year old. (That they are female rather than male, I'd say, is irrelevant)
Do you think that a prosecution with associated terms like 'paedophile' and 'victim' are appropriate in this case? Or, given their respective ages, would words like 'wrong', 'misguided' and 'Police caution' have been a better application of the law?
A 21 year old chasing a 15 year old. (That they are female rather than male, I'd say, is irrelevant)
Do you think that a prosecution with associated terms like 'paedophile' and 'victim' are appropriate in this case? Or, given their respective ages, would words like 'wrong', 'misguided' and 'Police caution' have been a better application of the law?
The Hypno-Toad said:
Nope, lock her up I say. Although the boyfriend was cleared I get the impression that the phrase "Look at the nice present I found for us on the internet," might well have said by her at one stage. Who knows what might have happened then?
Sick.
Do you know what? I read that article through twice before posting and on neither occasion saw the bit about the older woman's boyfriend. Bizarre!Sick.
That does change the story quite significantly. I had the older one down as an ugly (and therefore lonely) fool rather than necessarily sexual predator but, as you say, whatever the court 'found', the boyfriend must have had a role.
V8mate said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
Nope, lock her up I say. Although the boyfriend was cleared I get the impression that the phrase "Look at the nice present I found for us on the internet," might well have said by her at one stage. Who knows what might have happened then?
Sick.
Do you know what? I read that article through twice before posting and on neither occasion saw the bit about the older woman's boyfriend. Bizarre!Sick.
That does change the story quite significantly. I had the older one down as an ugly (and therefore lonely) fool rather than necessarily sexual predator but, as you say, whatever the court 'found', the boyfriend must have had a role.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8138908....
The bloke was 39 - but strangely is described as an unwilling participant.
Odd, it does appear that its the 21 year old woman who's done the running here.
But if the other girl had been a year older - would anythign have happened? ie - 16 and 22?
Its strange how what could essentially come down to the difference in age by a single day - ie girl was 16 rarther than 15, can have such an impact on a case.
I genuinly don't know so would be interested in finding out if anythign had happened if this had took place while the girl was 16.
Cheers
Dan
Odd, it does appear that its the 21 year old woman who's done the running here.
But if the other girl had been a year older - would anythign have happened? ie - 16 and 22?
Its strange how what could essentially come down to the difference in age by a single day - ie girl was 16 rarther than 15, can have such an impact on a case.
I genuinly don't know so would be interested in finding out if anythign had happened if this had took place while the girl was 16.
Cheers
Dan
Dan_1981 said:
The bloke was 39 - but strangely is described as an unwilling participant.
Odd, it does appear that its the 21 year old woman who's done the running here.
But if the other girl had been a year older - would anythign have happened? ie - 16 and 22?
Its strange how what could essentially come down to the difference in age by a single day - ie girl was 16 rarther than 15, can have such an impact on a case.
I've always found it a very interesting that, as you've pointed out, our legal system draws such clear cut lines defining when these age related offences occur.Odd, it does appear that its the 21 year old woman who's done the running here.
But if the other girl had been a year older - would anythign have happened? ie - 16 and 22?
Its strange how what could essentially come down to the difference in age by a single day - ie girl was 16 rarther than 15, can have such an impact on a case.
A 1 day difference hardly constitutes sufficient evidence of emotional maturity. I suppose the arguement in favour would be that is very difficult to draw a line any other way and we need one somewhere but it definately is vague at best. I wonder if, in lieu of advances in psychology, we could use the scalpal of logic with a little more precision and find a better means of drawing up these lines.
In reference to the article itself though, it is definately not a healthy relationship and this woman, rightly in my opinion, has been identified and sentenced as a sexual predator. I don't think we can really comment on the chap involved, as we're not in possession of all the facts. I do find it unlikely that he was ignorant of the situation though. It would seem more likely that he either was involved and it could not be proved in court or he knew about it and was a coward for not doing anything about it.
Good job by the parents/school/British Transport Police in noticing her gone & finding her, and I agree that the law is a bit to rigid when it comes to cases like this, but I can't see any way of improving it. There are many 15 y.o girls who are anything but vulnerable but could still get someone labelled a paedophile and sent down for statutory rape... then there are many older girls/women for whom the law serves as no protection from abusive controlling relationships. I guess it's just another case of the blunt transition between childhood protection and the hard facts of reality.
Martial Arts Man said:
I don't like the term paedophile being used in cases like this.
It is important to distinguish between desiring an under age, yet (presumably) post pubescent girl and a child.
We need a new word, me thinks.
I think there is a word for this....It is important to distinguish between desiring an under age, yet (presumably) post pubescent girl and a child.
We need a new word, me thinks.
Hold on i'm sure i've sen it used on here before.....
BRB....
Here we go - from wikipedia....
Hebephilia refers to an adult's sexual preference for pubescent youths; the term was introduced by Glueck (1955).[1] It differs from ephebophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for individuals in mid-to-late adolescence,[2] and from pedophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for prepubescent children.[3] While individuals with a sexual preference for adults (i.e., teleiophiles) may have some sexual interest in pubescent-aged individuals,[4] the term hebephilia is reserved for those who prefer pubescent-aged individuals over adults.
Edited by Dan_1981 on Wednesday 8th July 12:32
Dan_1981 said:
Martial Arts Man said:
I don't like the term paedophile being used in cases like this.
It is important to distinguish between desiring an under age, yet (presumably) post pubescent girl and a child.
We need a new word, me thinks.
I think there is a word for this....It is important to distinguish between desiring an under age, yet (presumably) post pubescent girl and a child.
We need a new word, me thinks.
Hold on i'm sure i've sen it used on here before.....
BRB....
Here we go - from wikipedia....
Hebephilia refers to an adult's sexual preference for pubescent youths; the term was introduced by Glueck (1955).[1] It differs from ephebophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for individuals in mid-to-late adolescence,[2] and from pedophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for prepubescent children.[3] While individuals with a sexual preference for adults (i.e., teleiophiles) may have some sexual interest in pubescent-aged individuals,[4] the term hebephilia is reserved for those who prefer pubescent-aged individuals over adults.
Edited by Dan_1981 on Wednesday 8th July 12:32
Shame they are all such a mouthful.....will never catch on sadly.
Dan_1981 said:
Martial Arts Man said:
I don't like the term paedophile being used in cases like this.
It is important to distinguish between desiring an under age, yet (presumably) post pubescent girl and a child.
We need a new word, me thinks.
I think there is a word for this....It is important to distinguish between desiring an under age, yet (presumably) post pubescent girl and a child.
We need a new word, me thinks.
Hold on i'm sure i've sen it used on here before.....
BRB....
Here we go - from wikipedia....
Hebephilia refers to an adult's sexual preference for pubescent youths; the term was introduced by Glueck (1955).[1] It differs from ephebophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for individuals in mid-to-late adolescence,[2] and from pedophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for prepubescent children.[3] While individuals with a sexual preference for adults (i.e., teleiophiles) may have some sexual interest in pubescent-aged individuals,[4] the term hebephilia is reserved for those who prefer pubescent-aged individuals over adults.
Edited by Dan_1981 on Wednesday 8th July 12:32
Surely the worst, at least morally, bit of this is a 39 year old man in a relationship with an unattractive easy to seduce and influence 21 year old. A 21 year old who probably saw no wrong in what she was doing and I would wager had been convinced this was a good idea by said older man.
21 - 15 = 6 year age gap, 21 - 39 = 18 year age gap.
15 is under the legal age of consent but I would rather my (non existent) teenage daughter had relationships with someone closer to her own age than waited until she was over 16 and buggered off with someone old enough to be her father.
21 - 15 = 6 year age gap, 21 - 39 = 18 year age gap.
15 is under the legal age of consent but I would rather my (non existent) teenage daughter had relationships with someone closer to her own age than waited until she was over 16 and buggered off with someone old enough to be her father.
Chris_w666 said:
Surely the worst, at least morally, bit of this is a 39 year old man in a relationship with an unattractive easy to seduce and influence 21 year old. A 21 year old who probably saw no wrong in what she was doing and I would wager had been convinced this was a good idea by said older man.
21 - 15 = 6 year age gap, 21 - 39 = 18 year age gap.
15 is under the legal age of consent but I would rather my (non existent) teenage daughter had relationships with someone closer to her own age than waited until she was over 16 and buggered off with someone old enough to be her father.
How fantastically sexist. Alternative view: unnattractive no-hoper dropout 39 year old cleaner/loner/shelf-stacker meets 21 year old goldigging munter who digs her claws in. Woman is complete psycho b21 - 15 = 6 year age gap, 21 - 39 = 18 year age gap.
15 is under the legal age of consent but I would rather my (non existent) teenage daughter had relationships with someone closer to her own age than waited until she was over 16 and buggered off with someone old enough to be her father.
h from hell and treats him like st, but he is too cowed and pathetic to tell her to fk off. She eventually gets busted for being a complete fruitcake, police question B/F & see the way it is and then let him go free of any charges.Edited by glazbagun on Wednesday 8th July 22:32
glazbagun said:
Alternative view: unnattractive no-hoper dropout 39 year old cleaner/loner/shelf-stacker meets 21 year old goldigging munter who digs her claws in. Woman is complete psycho bh from hell and treats him like st, but he is too cowed and pathetic to tell her to fk off. She eventually gets busted for being a complete fruitcake, police question B/F & see the way it is and then let him go free of any charges.
Agreed. When I saw the 21y/o troglodyte's photo I immediately thought of a small, skinny, stoop-shouldered balding man being totally dominated by a manipulative and abusive woman.h from hell and treats him like st, but he is too cowed and pathetic to tell her to fk off. She eventually gets busted for being a complete fruitcake, police question B/F & see the way it is and then let him go free of any charges.Edited by glazbagun on Wednesday 8th July 22:32
No grounds for that impression to have been planted, but relationships like that (and serious domestic abuse to accompany) do exist "the other way round".
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