US Extradition Treaty - an Act of Treason

[esselte]

beanbag said:

Marf said:

beanbag said:

I don't agree with the act however I agree this tosser should be punished.

So do you think he should be tried and punished here then?

Yes. How do you think we would react if we found some American nerd was hacking our government systems, stealing information and making it public?

If he was in the US at the time would you expect him to be tried over here?

[Marf]

beanbag said:

Marf said:

beanbag said:

I don't agree with the act however I agree this tosser should be punished.

So do you think he should be tried and punished here then?

Yes. How do you think we would react if we found some American nerd was hacking our government systems, stealing information and making it public?

I don't know, but we'd have a far harder time gaining extradition than our colonial counterparts have.

And just to get back to my original question, its good you think he should be tried here, because if that was the case he would be a free man. The DPP determined that under UK law there was no case to bring.

[grumbledoak]

beanbag said:

Yes. How do you think we would react if we found some American nerd was hacking our government systems, stealing information and making it public?

The US would tell us to ps off.

Gordon would stamp his little feet. And, most likely, throw a phone at the wall. Then get his tongue firmly back up Obama's arse.

[Halb]

beanbag said:

Yes. How do you think we would react if we found some American nerd was hacking our government systems, stealing information and making it public?

Is that what he did? I thought he broke in and left some rude things for the officials. I thought he was looking for UFOs. The US was rather lucky that it was a UFOologist rather than a terrorist.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6072959645...

[Skywalker]

The fact that the treaty is not equally reciprocal is a matter of national shame and disgust. Chutney Ferret Blair should never have done this and HMTQ should have had him beheaded.

I suppose that the nerd should count himself lucky that he wasn't Disappeared via the Extraordinary Rendition route and then given a hard time elsewhere.

[fluffnik]

Guam said:

On the general front I do think that any extradition treaty has to be balanced between both countries for the treaty to be seen as being just.

...and it should err in favour of protecting the citizen from the foreign power.

[amsie]

Hi all,

I used to work with Gary some 10 years ago in IT, for a spell of about 6 months. He was a very nice bloke, good laugh down the pub, always eager to tell you how he had hacked your workstation whilst you were away from the desk, but in all honestly, he wasnt a top hacker by any means. He used very simple hacks. He was what I call a conspiracy theorist type person, always going on about the US and Aliens etc.

From what I understand of his "hacking", and im not a hacker in anyway, he was using packet sniffers on devices on the US networks, and listening to traffic. Nothing more than that.

My feeling is that the US are going to make an example of him, and the guy is pretty harmless, and im not claiming to be his best friend but he is a decent nice bloke, very socialist in his views about 3rd world, helping the poorer etc. The US are definately overusing their powers here for what is nothing more than a schoolboy hack into their systems.

Im dissapointed to hear the news today regarding him, and I hope he gets a fair trial over there, and they see it in the context it probably was.

He has never asked not to be punished, he's asked to be punished in the context the hacks were, after all, he didnt try to set off any nukes, put any malicious code in their systems or delete any data.

[Pesty]

He did the crime. He has admited it. Send him to teh US to face trial and if he gets time let him serve it there why should we pay for it.

[Oakey]

Pesty said:

He did the crime. He has admited it. Send him to teh US to face trial and if he gets time let him serve it there why should we pay for it.

But he hasn't done a crime in this country, has he?

[Pesty]

No but extradition treaties are nothing new.

I agree this treaty is one sided and should possibly be changed. However the guy did the crime. His story seems to change daily. His latest explanation was saving the planet by finding CO2 free power hidden in US computers.


I don't get this thing where everybody sides with criminals just because they are from this country. Drugs smuglers the lot. The minute one gets locked up everybody clammers for their release.

He broke teh law, he new he was braking teh law and didn't care. Oh yeah thats right last year (6 years after the crime and just before an appeal) he got diagnosed with Aspergers convienient. anyway I am sure teh US will take that into acount

[grumbledoak]

Pesty said:

No but extradition treaties are nothing new.

I think you've missed the point. Prior to this ridiculous treaty the US would have had to provide evidence before we would agree to extradite him. They no longer need to do this.

He committed no crime, here, and caused no damage. Except to the Pentagon's reputation by telling the world just how fking useless they had been in protecting their own computer network. He even left messages to tell the admins that they should really sort their security.

This grievous situation, brought to us by the smiling wker himself, was not proposed as one-sided. But, while it was quickly rammed through our Parliament, the US congress/senate (I forget which) told the President to go fk himself. Our democracy failed, theirs did not.

This will be a show trial to save face, and NuLabour's "so called" best have shown how useless and spineless they really are.

[Smiler.]

There was a 'dramatised' account of this in a play on R4 a year or so ago. I'm not an expert on this case, but it does seem like the US have been made to look like total s (with the hacking and all), so they're mighty pissed, a bit like ramming a broom handle up a wasps nest.

No offence to the yanks, but really.

If the way he was 'coerced' into pleading guilty is correct, it's a bit wrong IMO.

[Pesty]

grumbledoak said:

Pesty said:

No but extradition treaties are nothing new.

I think you've missed the point. Prior to this ridiculous treaty the US would have had to provide evidence before we would agree to extradite him. They no longer need to do this.

.

I know what you are saying but do they need evidence when he has admitted it himslef? even his mother admits he did it.

I know the treety is one sided and bks. Show me a piece of paper and I will sign it. Tell me our politicians are st and I will agree.
Tell me that muggers and murderes should get longer sentences that hackers And i will also nod my head.

However I am fed up of whiney criminals making all kinds of excuses. he did it so has no sympathy from me.

[fluffnik]

Pesty said:

He did the crime. He has admited it. Send him to teh US to face trial and if he gets time let him serve it there why should we pay for it.

If what he did was a crime, he did it here.

What he did was equivalent to wandering around an unsecured area writing rude things in the sand...

[Police State]

Marf said:

Yes, the whole thing is a farce, and makes me ashamed to be British.

British is only a term that your political masters use when they want you to fight a war, otherwise they give away that honour to any old islamist, economic refugee or billionaire Oliagarch.

[unrepentant]

amsie said:

I used to work with Gary some 10 years ago in IT, for a spell of about 6 months. He was a very nice bloke, good laugh down the pub, always eager to tell you how he had hacked your workstation whilst you were away from the desk, but in all honestly, he wasnt a top hacker by any means. He used very simple hacks. He was what I call a conspiracy theorist type person, always going on about the US and Aliens etc.

My feeling is that the US are going to make an example of him, and the guy is pretty harmless, and im not claiming to be his best friend but he is a decent nice bloke, very socialist in his views about 3rd world, helping the poorer etc. The US are definately overusing their powers here for what is nothing more than a schoolboy hack into their systems.

He has never asked not to be punished, he's asked to be punished in the context the hacks were, after all, he didnt try to set off any nukes, put any malicious code in their systems or delete any data.

I listened to him on R5 the other day. He sounded like a harmless if eccentric sort of guy who did what he did without malicious intent and even left notes on people desktops telling them they should maybe consider having a password and a firewall given that they were working at the Pentagon etc.... I think that given that he is clearly not "all there" our government should be doing all they can to persuade the Americans not to extradite him.

[amsie]

unrepentant said:

amsie said:

I used to work with Gary some 10 years ago in IT, for a spell of about 6 months. He was a very nice bloke, good laugh down the pub, always eager to tell you how he had hacked your workstation whilst you were away from the desk, but in all honestly, he wasnt a top hacker by any means. He used very simple hacks. He was what I call a conspiracy theorist type person, always going on about the US and Aliens etc.

My feeling is that the US are going to make an example of him, and the guy is pretty harmless, and im not claiming to be his best friend but he is a decent nice bloke, very socialist in his views about 3rd world, helping the poorer etc. The US are definately overusing their powers here for what is nothing more than a schoolboy hack into their systems.

He has never asked not to be punished, he's asked to be punished in the context the hacks were, after all, he didnt try to set off any nukes, put any malicious code in their systems or delete any data.

I listened to him on R5 the other day. He sounded like a harmless if eccentric sort of guy who did what he did without malicious intent and even left notes on people desktops telling them they should maybe consider having a password and a firewall given that they were working at the Pentagon etc.... I think that given that he is clearly not "all there" our government should be doing all they can to persuade the Americans not to extradite him.

Eccentric is a good way to describe him, and he used to leave us the same notes on our desktop, lol. Put it this way, there are a lot of aholes in life, but he is one of the good guys, would be first at the bar, always give you advice if you were stuck on a problem, although he sucked a bit at playing Quake. Like I say, im not claiming to be his best friend or anything, but I really do feel for him and I would put my house on him not doing any damage, rather just hacking for the sake of it and as a challenge as most of them do.

Again, as far as I know, he didnt have to hack much anyway, he only got in because the US depts left default admin usernames on their devices i.e. Admin on a router.

[ninja-lewis]

Can someone explain something for me? The systems he accessed were in the US but he was in the UK at the time therefore some people argue he should stand trial here instead. But what's the difference between this and say the Lockerbie bombing? The aircraft came down in Scotland but the bag was loaded in Malta apparently. So by the same logic as above, shouldn't the trial have taken place in Malta rather under Scots law?

Secondly, some people say what he did wasn't against UK law. Does the Computer Misuse Act not prohibit unauthorised access and therefore appplicable in this context?

[Zod]

This case is a horrible example of breaking a butterfly on a wheel. The guy is harmless and did no damage other than exposing some US sysadmins as negligent.

[amsie]

ninja, I don't know the specifics but I think that usually he would get a smack on the wrist for such lameness, but there going to throw the book at him to make an example of him.