Political revolution
Discussion
Is it just me or does anyone else think that we're actually going to have to have a full reform of our political system before we can progress past this point as a country?
The current system is way too comfortable for those in power. No one is accountable for their actions, everyone hides behind a lack of written rules for our politicians.
I live in Brighton so had the joy to behold the Labour party conference this weekend. It has made me very angry.
At a time when the country is in dire straits, people are out of work, we are in a huge amount of debt, our soldiers are fighting in wars that are only ever going to benefit a certain group of people yet in Brighton this weekend half of the seafront is blocked off to 'the public’ so they can sit and drink champagne outside the Grand hotel (which has been shut down for the weekend to accommodate the conference) while keeping every day people out of their way with armed police and bollards absolutely everywhere. I’ve never been made to feel more comfortable in my own town before.
Now, this alone is not my gripe, it’s the complete lack of concern or attachment to the real world that our politicians seem to have. I can’t blame all of them, as some really do care, but the majority, and the system itself, is not set up to aid or assist the progress of the masses.
I’m not a crazy lefty advocating communism or socialism. What I would like to see is an end to huge money-wasting schemes, an end to people taking advantage of their power in society, an end to political points scoring and an end to a system that fosters a near constitutional approach to stopping or stalling change.
Am I the only one who thinks that we’ll never see this under our current political system or do people think it is the party/parties in power that have more of an effect?
Thanks for listening!
'
The current system is way too comfortable for those in power. No one is accountable for their actions, everyone hides behind a lack of written rules for our politicians.
I live in Brighton so had the joy to behold the Labour party conference this weekend. It has made me very angry.
At a time when the country is in dire straits, people are out of work, we are in a huge amount of debt, our soldiers are fighting in wars that are only ever going to benefit a certain group of people yet in Brighton this weekend half of the seafront is blocked off to 'the public’ so they can sit and drink champagne outside the Grand hotel (which has been shut down for the weekend to accommodate the conference) while keeping every day people out of their way with armed police and bollards absolutely everywhere. I’ve never been made to feel more comfortable in my own town before.
Now, this alone is not my gripe, it’s the complete lack of concern or attachment to the real world that our politicians seem to have. I can’t blame all of them, as some really do care, but the majority, and the system itself, is not set up to aid or assist the progress of the masses.
I’m not a crazy lefty advocating communism or socialism. What I would like to see is an end to huge money-wasting schemes, an end to people taking advantage of their power in society, an end to political points scoring and an end to a system that fosters a near constitutional approach to stopping or stalling change.
Am I the only one who thinks that we’ll never see this under our current political system or do people think it is the party/parties in power that have more of an effect?
Thanks for listening!
'
The current political systems are dated, and need a reform.
If Governments are too start helping the people, then a reform is the only way to go about it as the current system is geared towards personal gain, and the 'good of the nation' is often overlooked in favour of what's most beneficial to the politician.
If Governments are too start helping the people, then a reform is the only way to go about it as the current system is geared towards personal gain, and the 'good of the nation' is often overlooked in favour of what's most beneficial to the politician.
This has been going on since the roman empire and it won't change until someone literally holds a gun to their heads and forces them to change. BUT they have to be checked on all the time.
Look what happened with communism, started out seemingly like a good thing, greedy powerhungry b
ds got into it, fook the people, and bingo another totalitarian system....Not much different to what bLIAR and Broon have been up to....
Look what happened with communism, started out seemingly like a good thing, greedy powerhungry b
ds got into it, fook the people, and bingo another totalitarian system....Not much different to what bLIAR and Broon have been up to....maix27 said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
what's most beneficial to the politician.
It is sickening what they get away with. Was listening to Dispatches last night, they don't actually have an employment contract! So technicaly they can do what they like.
Being a Politician is a full-time career now. There are kids, who come out of school, and go straight into council/ governmental work with the aim to becoming an MP.
Now personally, and this is just my opinion, but I don't think you are in any position to start governing or make any decisions until you have got the practical experience to back you up. Look at the current lot in charge; where is the experience in running a private company? Where is the experience of having to work hard for a day's pay? If they havent got the experience...how can they know what's best for the people they are 'Supposed' to represent!?
We also have no accountability. which allows politicians to make quick, snap, rash decisions and not have to worry about the consequences if they get them wrong.
You notice how many new laws and policies come into effect these days, where MP are exempt from them? It's another example of 'Do as we say; and not as we do!'.
Spiritual_Beggar said:
maix27 said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
what's most beneficial to the politician.
It is sickening what they get away with. Was listening to Dispatches last night, they don't actually have an employment contract! So technicaly they can do what they like.
Being a Politician is a full-time career now. There are kids, who come out of school, and go straight into council/ governmental work with the aim to becoming an MP.
Now personally, and this is just my opinion, but I don't think you are in any position to start governing or make any decisions until you have got the practical experience to back you up. Look at the current lot in charge; where is the experience in running a private company? Where is the experience of having to work hard for a day's pay? If they havent got the experience...how can they know what's best for the people they are 'Supposed' to represent!?
We also have no accountability. which allows politicians to make quick, snap, rash decisions and not have to worry about the consequences if they get them wrong.
You notice how many new laws and policies come into effect these days, where MP are exempt from them? It's another example of 'Do as we say; and not as we do!'.
If we had someone who knew the financial system inside out who was actually interested in how the financial system affects everyone then there's a chance that we wouldn't be in such a poor financial state.
Fittster said:
JMGS4 said:
This has been going on since the roman empire and it won't change until someone literally holds a gun to their heads and forces them to change
For true change the trigger has to be pulled, “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”No chance whatsoever.
The ill educated average joe has no idea about what half of this means, yet can be roused by some ridiculous issues, but these are swept under the rug asap and it's back to normal.
Funding it is impossible at this rate. It seems unlikely that a member of the party system will have the nuts to rein in this spending malarkey. Only solution is to carry on as normal until the EU come and absorb us in a big asset stripping nationalisation into a United States of Europe (socialist republic). Then we can have a nice fresh start and the cronies can cut up the power/industry as they please.
That was my paranoia speaking and what I thought would be a likely cause. It is unlikely as the EU monetary federation is going to tear itself apart. Even if it didn't, a lot of EU countries still have a micron of national pride, unlike our Government. (Then again, I imagine most of them would like Scotland to be a EU state). I can't see a USE, no matter how utopian and stoned I feel.
Revolution is impossible. Just witness every higher taxation, more people going into the underclass/black/grey markets and the country printing itself into the third world, whilst our minerals are stripped by foreign companies!
It won't be that bad. Slugbrows and Brown are working on the task of getting Britain back on it's feet. It's all hype. A few slips of decimal points will see everything is fine soon.
The ill educated average joe has no idea about what half of this means, yet can be roused by some ridiculous issues, but these are swept under the rug asap and it's back to normal.
Funding it is impossible at this rate. It seems unlikely that a member of the party system will have the nuts to rein in this spending malarkey. Only solution is to carry on as normal until the EU come and absorb us in a big asset stripping nationalisation into a United States of Europe (socialist republic). Then we can have a nice fresh start and the cronies can cut up the power/industry as they please.
That was my paranoia speaking and what I thought would be a likely cause. It is unlikely as the EU monetary federation is going to tear itself apart. Even if it didn't, a lot of EU countries still have a micron of national pride, unlike our Government. (Then again, I imagine most of them would like Scotland to be a EU state). I can't see a USE, no matter how utopian and stoned I feel.
Revolution is impossible. Just witness every higher taxation, more people going into the underclass/black/grey markets and the country printing itself into the third world, whilst our minerals are stripped by foreign companies!
It won't be that bad. Slugbrows and Brown are working on the task of getting Britain back on it's feet. It's all hype. A few slips of decimal points will see everything is fine soon.
Edited by Gedon on Tuesday 29th September 15:13
There needs to be an overhaul of the electoral system. The conservatives have got off to a good start, with proper open primaries that allow anyone to vote for who will be the conservative candidate in that constituency.
The second thing that needs to happen is the electoral system needs changing. The current system is horribly biased, and allows for safe seats that make it impossible to remove cronies and party toads. Brown mentioned today that he wants the Alternative vote system, but that is just a fudge will not change anything as it allows for party controlled lists, which if anything makes the safe seat problem worse.
We need to use the single transferrable vote system, that makes every single MP accountable and makes it almost impossible for the party to dictate which candidates will get a seat, while still allowing workable majorities in parliament and retains a link between the MPs and the constituencies. For that reason I expect the main parties will fight hard against it. Ireland uses it, and it works well enough that the MPs have unsuccessfully tried twice to get rid of it.
The second thing that needs to happen is the electoral system needs changing. The current system is horribly biased, and allows for safe seats that make it impossible to remove cronies and party toads. Brown mentioned today that he wants the Alternative vote system, but that is just a fudge will not change anything as it allows for party controlled lists, which if anything makes the safe seat problem worse.
We need to use the single transferrable vote system, that makes every single MP accountable and makes it almost impossible for the party to dictate which candidates will get a seat, while still allowing workable majorities in parliament and retains a link between the MPs and the constituencies. For that reason I expect the main parties will fight hard against it. Ireland uses it, and it works well enough that the MPs have unsuccessfully tried twice to get rid of it.
maix27 said:
Is it just me or does anyone else think that we're actually going to have to have a full reform of our political system before we can progress past this point as a country?
'
Yip I agree. I know GB has mentioned something aboot change. I don't know the details. The LDs advocate PR, which I wouldn't mind seeing for a second house. A 2nd house made of of non career politicians. The primary house would also need a shake up. I would like no more hereditary positions, less centralisation, more access to how we oversee MPs etc....lunch!'
Maix27 - 'The current system is way too comfortable for those in power'
The Scottish Parliament - vote themselves bigger retirement pots
Now, how can we stop this bandwagon? or more contoversial- has this luxury talking shop been worth the initial building costs-running costs-wage bill-allowances-trips abroad etc etc
The Scottish Parliament - vote themselves bigger retirement pots
Now, how can we stop this bandwagon? or more contoversial- has this luxury talking shop been worth the initial building costs-running costs-wage bill-allowances-trips abroad etc etc
theaxe said:
Since bankers are now compensated according to the long-term performance of their work (and rightly so) should the same now apply to politicians & political parties?
Well how would that work?You've been in power for 3 years and you now owe us 140billion pounds
Brown said:
Oh bugger
theaxe said:
thinfourth2 said:
Well how would that work?
No idea. I guess we'd hope that the electorate would remember past failings and use that knowledge to inform future voting decisions.Accountability!!
Make Politicians accountable for their election promises/ manifesto's......since they get into power on the back on these promises!!
If they've failed to live up to those promises (for whatever reason), then take away their perks (reduced pensions, etc....something for them to actually 'work for').
This will stop people making 'impossible' or unrealistic promises in order to get into power.
This is the biggest problem with the current Political system, imo.
No one is accountable for their actions whilst in government. They can say one thing, and then go a do something completely different and blame it on the 'other party' for opposing.
Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Monday 3rd January 15:33
Spiritual_Beggar - 'No one is accountable for their actions whilst in government'
The souls of these poor devils ......
are sometimes forced to stand up and whisper "I take full responsibility" and then quickly sit down and then carry on as normal.
When the expences scandel was brought out into the open, how many of these 'honorable' and 'right honorable' employees of the Crown made errors of judgement that all favoured themselves? Did any under charge us?
Remember that little red haired lass that waved a cheque?
Was it ever cashed?
Just watched Nuremberg.......what a film
The souls of these poor devils ......
are sometimes forced to stand up and whisper "I take full responsibility" and then quickly sit down and then carry on as normal.
When the expences scandel was brought out into the open, how many of these 'honorable' and 'right honorable' employees of the Crown made errors of judgement that all favoured themselves? Did any under charge us?
Remember that little red haired lass that waved a cheque?
Was it ever cashed?
Just watched Nuremberg.......what a film
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