SNP in party leadership debate legal threat

[ninja-lewis]

glazbagun said:

I was surprised that UKIP didn't have a seat- did they campaign for the last election, or are they mainly local council/EU gravy train?

2.2% of the vote. They're a bit single issue (or percieved to be anyway) so they do well in the Euro elections (where they also benefit from PR) but come the general election (with first past the post), most people are looking at other issues and the EU is not as important.

[eldar]

bobthemonkey said:

In the states entry requires the candidate to have at least 15% support in a number of national poles. No reason why we couldn't have a similar rule here.

What about national belgians?

[Puggit]

ninja-lewis said:

glazbagun said:

I was surprised that UKIP didn't have a seat- did they campaign for the last election, or are they mainly local council/EU gravy train?

2.2% of the vote. They're a bit single issue (or percieved to be anyway) so they do well in the Euro elections (where they also benefit from PR) but come the general election (with first past the post), most people are looking at other issues and the EU is not as important.

But with the 3 main parties seemingly all leading us down the same path, why not vote for a single issue party...?

[fluffnik]

deevlash said:

As for "letting the big boys fight it out" thats fine if we're talking about party sizes but as a debater Alex Salmond would beat Brown and Cameron really bady, he's very very good at it.

An Alex and Boris show would be the best TV.

...and here in Scotland the Tories are number 4.

[fluffnik]

glazbagun said:

Sinn Fein (5) (haven't taken their seats and cannot vote)

Cannot take their seats because, despite being democratically elected, to do so they would have to take an oath directly contrary to the platform on which they stood.

Democracy? Pah!

[Skywalker]

EU regional reps in "wah wah wah, I want to play with the big boys" shocker.

[deevlash]

Skywalker said:

EU regional reps in "wah wah wah, I want to play with the big boys" shocker.

the tories are a regional party too, they only have 1 MP in Scotland, in the borders. They will use the exposure this generates to try to win votes in Scotland, the SNP heartland. Why should the SNP stand by and allow them free exposure and PR to steal their seats? Alex Salmond is quite right to fight his corner.

The pathetic attitude of many of the posters on here when referring to him and his party as irrelevant and apparently some kind of mickey mouse outfit is pretty poor and displays their own ignorance.

I voted Tory last time around just FYI.

[ninja-lewis]

fluffnik said:

deevlash said:

As for "letting the big boys fight it out" thats fine if we're talking about party sizes but as a debater Alex Salmond would beat Brown and Cameron really bady, he's very very good at it.

An Alex and Boris show would be the best TV.

...and here in Scotland the Tories are number 4.

By recent measures the Tories are actually third in Scotland, ahead of the Lib Dems. Won more MSPs in 2007, more votes in the Euro election this year and ahead of the Lib Dems in the Scottish voting intention polls recently. The only measures that the LDs are ahead in are MPs (elected in 2005) and the council elections in 2007 where they had about 20 more councillors so the Tories are not as marginalised in Scotland as perceived wisdom suggests. Indeed, I'd be surprised if the Tories didn't win about 5 or 6 seats next year.

[OnTheOverrun]

deevlash said:

the tories are a regional party too, they only have 1 MP in Scotland, in the borders. They will use the exposure this generates to try to win votes in Scotland, the SNP heartland. Why should the SNP stand by and allow them free exposure and PR to steal their seats? Alex Salmond is quite right to fight his corner.

It's not about what you win, it's about where you stand. If Salmond wants to feature on a debate between UK-wide parties he needs to put forward SNP candidates outside Scotland. The scots have the option to vote tory, the english do not have the opportunity to vote SNP so the SNP exclude themselves from that debate.

[glazbagun]

OnTheOverrun said:

deevlash said:

the tories are a regional party too, they only have 1 MP in Scotland, in the borders. They will use the exposure this generates to try to win votes in Scotland, the SNP heartland. Why should the SNP stand by and allow them free exposure and PR to steal their seats? Alex Salmond is quite right to fight his corner.

It's not about what you win, it's about where you stand. If Salmond wants to feature on a debate between UK-wide parties he needs to put forward SNP candidates outside Scotland. The scots have the option to vote tory, the english do not have the opportunity to vote SNP so the SNP exclude themselves from that debate.

Judging by the results of this thread:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

perhaps they should stand in England.

[mybrainhurts]

Doesn't Salmond understand this is a general election, and nothing to do with his little empire in the wastes of up there...?

Stick to sheep fiddling, you inconsequential little twerp...

[deevlash]

mybrainhurts said:

Doesn't Salmond understand this is a general election, and nothing to do with his little empire in the wastes of up there...?

Stick to sheep fiddling, you inconsequential little twerp...

The SNP stand in parliamentary elections too you fool. Salmond is an MP and therefore of a great deal more importance and intelligence than you, who seemingly spends every waking minute posting drivel on a car forum.

[fluffnik]

glazbagun said:

Judging by the results of this thread:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

perhaps they should stand in England.

I've often thought there should be joint SNP/PC candidates in English by-elections standing on an "Independence for England" platform.

They might do quite well.

[wiffmaster]

deevlash said:

an MP and therefore of a great deal more importance and intelligence than you

Quick children, it's a non-sequitur. Run for your lives!

[mybrainhurts]

deevlash said:

mybrainhurts said:

Doesn't Salmond understand this is a general election, and nothing to do with his little empire in the wastes of up there...?

Stick to sheep fiddling, you inconsequential little twerp...

The SNP stand in parliamentary elections too you fool. Salmond is an MP and therefore of a great deal more importance and intelligence than you, who seemingly spends every waking minute posting drivel on a car forum.

The ease of hooking you crusties is a deep joy, second only to....no, better not

[Skywalker]

deevlash said:

[ Salmond is an MP

Morning deevlash .

Top point about the Tories in Scotland - well made and my hat is truly doffed.

Well blow me. I never realised until just know that Alex Salmond is both an MP and an MSP. I thought that in a similar way to Glennis Kinnock that you had to be one or the other.

Whilst in the truest interests of democracy, there should be an open forum for the leaders of all parties to come and take part (and as much as it would disgust me the B & P and all others should be able to exercise their rights to freedom of thought and expression as the next person) - if Sky only want to invite the leaders of parties with more that "x" MPs in the Palace of Westminster, then that is their call.

Ironically it is the Euro model to promote the Council of Regions above national Parliaments but sub-ordinate to the EuroParl, so actually the Regional Assemblies will have greater clout.

It is a pity in some senses that the the phrase 'devolution' has enticed the patriots into RA's in Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland whereas teh English (quite rightly IMO) gave Blair and particularly Prescott the Agincourt salute when they tried to impose one in the North East.

Still, our Government Offices for the Regions have aligned Health Authorities, Police (including ACPO regions), Development Agencies etc, so the infrastructure has been established and all they need to do is impose encourage the populace to accept RAs.

Perhaps they will turn Longshanks' concept back on the English and breed them out in a modern day prima nocte?

[Dracoro]

Is this still going on?

There is to be a televised debate on UK politics. You can't have all the parties there, you need to draw the line somewhere. Having a party represented there that has only 1% of MPs is ludicrous.

If Salmond wishes to be involved, then so must Sinn Fein, the Greens, Democratic Unionists, Independents, Plaid Cymru, Respect, Social Democratic and Ulster Unionists.

Edited by Dracoro on Tuesday 6th October 10:21

[ninja-lewis]

Although Salmond is an MP now he's supposed to be standing down at the next election to concentrate on his MSP and First Minister roles. So why invite someone who is not even standing for election? Labour might as well send Mandelson along in that case. Somehow I can't see Alex Salmond minding Angus Robertson (leader of the SNP group in Westminster) being invited instead.

[deevlash]

Skywalker said:

deevlash said:

[ Salmond is an MP

Morning deevlash .

Top point about the Tories in Scotland - well made and my hat is truly doffed.

Well blow me. I never realised until just know that Alex Salmond is both an MP and an MSP. I thought that in a similar way to Glennis Kinnock that you had to be one or the other.

Whilst in the truest interests of democracy, there should be an open forum for the leaders of all parties to come and take part (and as much as it would disgust me the B & P and all others should be able to exercise their rights to freedom of thought and expression as the next person) - if Sky only want to invite the leaders of parties with more that "x" MPs in the Palace of Westminster, then that is their call.

Ironically it is the Euro model to promote the Council of Regions above national Parliaments but sub-ordinate to the EuroParl, so actually the Regional Assemblies will have greater clout.

It is a pity in some senses that the the phrase 'devolution' has enticed the patriots into RA's in Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland whereas teh English (quite rightly IMO) gave Blair and particularly Prescott the Agincourt salute when they tried to impose one in the North East.

Still, our Government Offices for the Regions have aligned Health Authorities, Police (including ACPO regions), Development Agencies etc, so the infrastructure has been established and all they need to do is impose encourage the populace to accept RAs.

Perhaps they will turn Longshanks' concept back on the English and breed them out in a modern day prima nocte?

I wasnt overly keen on the idea of the scottish parliament when it was first mooted but as I was 15 I had no say in the matter. I think the plan was essentially, as you say, to put the nationalists in their own little box and theyd become irrelevant to UK politics. It has backfired somewhat however as the nationalists gained power in Holyrood and have become a bit of a nuisance to Brown instead of having a nice puppet Labour administration.

Salmond is right to fight his corner, he knows fine well that his being part of the debate itself is pretty pointless, he wont be forming a UK government. It does provide him with an opportunity to throw his weight around a little and get some good PR too.

Most importantly however his legal threats etc. seem to ps off a huge amount of English people who think Scotland is a region of England. He knows that a lot of nationalist voters and potential voters will see this as a good thing and vote for him off the back of it.

[Corpulent Tosser]

fluffnik said:

glazbagun said:

Sinn Fein (5) (haven't taken their seats and cannot vote)

Cannot take their seats because, despite being democratically elected, to do so they would have to take an oath directly contrary to the platform on which they stood.

Democracy? Pah!

That being the case, which it is, aren't the elected representatives hypocrits for standing to take a place in a parliament which they had no intention of actually taking, and aren't the people who voted for then exceedingly stupid voting for a representative who will not represent them.

But to the point I think the leaders of the three leading parties is plenty for the debate.

Edited by Corpulent Tosser on Wednesday 7th October 09:16