Lisbon Treaty , Yes or No or maybe

[snotsnfarts]

Well this could ramble on for ever and we still may never get the chance.

[hidetheelephants]

There was a vague ramble on R4 about how the German judiciary are deeply unimpressed at how this treaty is robbing them of their ultimate power, or something, and that a judicial challenge was in the works. It would be rather ironic if they succeeded in shooting it down in flames, what with the Germans being amongst the cheerleaders for the thing in the first place...

[CDP]

This is the only vote we'll ever get; despite being promised one by all three parties.

[SkinnyBoy]

No wonder they call the UK Treasure Island. Everybody who has an ounce of pride in being uniquely English should vote No vociferously on this. To think, I thought Starwars Revenge of the Sith was fiction, I'm not so sure now.

[Spiritual_Beggar]

I really can't see why we cannot have a referendum.


The only reason to not have one is if the Politicians in charge know a 'No' vote will be returned.


Otherwise, let's actually see what the country thinks, rather than having politicians telling us what we think!

[chris watton]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

I really can't see why we cannot have a referendum.


The only reason to not have one is if the Politicians in charge know a 'No' vote will be returned.


Otherwise, let's actually see what the country thinks, rather than having politicians telling us what we think!

I think the reason is that it has become all too clear that our 'elected' politicians are in it for self gain, and not for selfless devotion to their constituents and country. Moral they are not, aside from a very few.

[fatboy b]

What is the Lisbon treaty anyway?

[ewenm]

I haven't read it and I'm disinclined to form my opinion based on what newspapers and lobbyists decide to say.

If a referendum is called, I'll read it and make up my mind. Until then, it holds no pressing interest for me.

[elster]

When is the poll reset if the results don't show the "right" outcome?

After reading a summary of the Lisbon Treaty, god no.

[Jasandjules]

Anything which does not reduce the power of the EU to Govern our nation is not acceptable to me.

[Shoot Blair]

fatboy b said:

What is the Lisbon treaty anyway?

It pretty much creates a United States of Europe. Ties up the ends and creates a president.

As you can see, the strength of the Euro is tearing poorer members to bits. Either the contributers have to contribute more (which we will gladly) or parts of it will fall to bits. This "political experiment" is an expensive waste that is at worst a handicap and is best a luxury. We can't afford to be crippled by this crap that our politicians insist on riding.

Most people don't have the knowledge or intelligence to see what this means and get ushered around in the dark, into a place where they lose more freedoms.

As I was saying the other day, Why did we bother fighting WWII? Why not just let Germany rule us? If they didn't take away our freedoms or make us obey an alternative set of behaviours, where was the problem...

The key snag, apart from the economic freedom we lose (that is killing PIIGS) is that we have a load of people who are unelected, with socialist and environmental ideas which exceed those of essential economic success. THEY WILL IMPINGE ON YOUR LIFE VIA ENVIRONMENTAL BULLst AND REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, FROM YOUR POCKETS INTO THOSE OF LAZY DAGOS

The project is in essence a handicap to all those but the facilitators and those who've lined their pockets.

Anything but a no vote reeks of ignorance and stupidity.

Edited by Shoot Blair on Monday 5th October 11:23

[Spiritual_Beggar]

fesuvious said:

Shoot Blair said:

fatboy b said:

What is the Lisbon treaty anyway?

It pretty much creates a United States of Europe. Ties up the ends and creates a president.

As you can see, the strength of the Euro is tearing poorer members to bits. Either the contributers have to contribute more (which we will gladly) or parts of it will fall to bits. This "political experiment" is an expensive waste that is at worst a handicap and is best a luxury. We can't afford to be crippled by this crap that our politicians insist on riding.

Most people don't have the knowledge or intelligence to see what this means and get ushered around in the dark, into a place where they lose more freedoms.

As I was saying the other day, Why did we bother fighting WWII? Why not just let Germany rule us? If they didn't take away our freedoms or make us obey an alternative set of behaviours, where was the problem...

The key snag, apart from the economic freedom we lose (that is killing PIIGS) is that we have a load of people who are unelected, with socialist and environmental ideas which exceed those of essential economic success. THEY WILL IMPINGE ON YOUR LIFE VIA ENVIRONMENTAL BULLst AND REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, FROM YOUR POCKETS INTO THOSE OF LAZY DAGOS

The project is in essence a handicap to all those but the facilitators and those who've lined their pockets.

Anything but a no vote reeks of ignorance and stupidity.

Edited by Shoot Blair on Monday 5th October 11:23

I fear you may be sitting on the fence too much.

Don't hold back, this is a free place, just tell us what you think

Quite simply, a Ratification of the Lisbon Treaty means Europe is governed by 'Labour' style Policies and economics.


So, let's look at the way our country is run at the moment, and decide whether we want that, but on a larger scale.

I for one do not!

Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Monday 5th October 12:01

[Windsorphil]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

I really can't see why we cannot have a referendum.


The only reason to not have one is if the Politicians in charge know a 'No' vote will be returned.


Otherwise, let's actually see what the country thinks, rather than having politicians telling us what we think!

...Well mostly because we have already said yes, and there are only two more signatures needed to make it happen Poland and Czech Republic - and they will likely happen very quickly now, so it will soon be ratified by all 27 memberstates. We, and a few others, have got an opt out on legislation around home and justice affairs - of course sceptics will not be convinced that this will be enough...

[teapea]

What can any of us do though except vote BNP or UKIP.
I know a lot of my friends vote BNP, yet they know none of their policies other than getting us out of Europe.

[FourWheelDrift]

teapea said:

What can any of us do though except vote BNP or UKIP.

Wouldn't change anything, Labour has already forced us in and when Poland and the Czechs also ratify the treaty we will in before a General Election can happen and when we are in we can't get out. At least not without penalties and you know what happens when we play Germany at penalties.

Which is why David Cameron has said he will rule out a retrospective referendum because it won't change a thing except prove the obvious, that we shouldn't have gone in in the first place. What he will do though is attempt to claw back powers instead. Which is a lot more than Labour would do for us.

Have you never realised why Blair gave up the PMs job so readily to a man he doesn't like? A deal was done, Brown to be PM and ratify the Lisbon treaty backing Blair for the EU Presidency.

[Spiritual_Beggar]

Windsorphil said:

...Well mostly because we have already said yes

There's no 'WE' in it.

There was no vote, we weren't given the choice....we were TOLD.


Thats the whole point!!!!

[nonegreen]

On the downside we are losing control to another set of tossers we didn't elect. We will have to believe the global warming bks and we lose control of our borders so the whole place become the dumping ground for the human flotsam and jetsom. On the upside we get rid of the parasitical royals as you can't have 2 heads of state. We will learn to have no respect for suthority and we will at least stop being run by incompetent english ex public schoolboys.

On balance the Lisbon treaty wins lol

[Spiritual_Beggar]

Actually...when you think about it......


If Tony Blair is announced the EU president, do any of you think Gordon Brown will give us a referendum, with their past relationship and all

You know, what with him essentially being TB's no.2 again.

[Einion Yrth]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

no.2 again.

{schoolboy humour} I don't believe he ever ceased being a no. 2 {schoolboy humour off}

[mybrainhurts]

Shoot Blair said:

fatboy b said:

What is the Lisbon treaty anyway?

It pretty much creates a United States of Europe. Ties up the ends and creates a president.

As you can see, the strength of the Euro is tearing poorer members to bits. Either the contributers have to contribute more (which we will gladly) or parts of it will fall to bits. This "political experiment" is an expensive waste that is at worst a handicap and is best a luxury. We can't afford to be crippled by this crap that our politicians insist on riding.

Most people don't have the knowledge or intelligence to see what this means and get ushered around in the dark, into a place where they lose more freedoms.

As I was saying the other day, Why did we bother fighting WWII? Why not just let Germany rule us? If they didn't take away our freedoms or make us obey an alternative set of behaviours, where was the problem...

The key snag, apart from the economic freedom we lose (that is killing PIIGS) is that we have a load of people who are unelected, with socialist and environmental ideas which exceed those of essential economic success. THEY WILL IMPINGE ON YOUR LIFE VIA ENVIRONMENTAL BULLst AND REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, FROM YOUR POCKETS INTO THOSE OF LAZY DAGOS

The project is in essence a handicap to all those but the facilitators and those who've lined their pockets.

Anything but a no vote reeks of ignorance and stupidity.

Just bumping this excellent post, lest anybody missed it...