Public servants who earn more than PM to explain themselves

[fido]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

How do you go from running the 'Football Association' to running the 'Rotal Mail'!? Shirley there are people with a bit more experience in the require field of business.

What experience has Crozier learnt at the FA which makes him more qualified than others out there?

I was really surprised when they first announced it....and I'm still surprised.

Well i suppose he has experience of dealing with the losing side :hides:

[pkitchen]

fido said:

Spiritual_Beggar said:

How do you go from running the 'Football Association' to running the 'Rotal Mail'!? Shirley there are people with a bit more experience in the require field of business.

What experience has Crozier learnt at the FA which makes him more qualified than others out there?

I was really surprised when they first announced it....and I'm still surprised.

Well i suppose he has experience of dealing with the losing side :hides:

Nah. Jobs for the boys........

[FourWheelDrift]

All that would happen is Sir Humphrey Appleby will work a ploy so that the PM ends up with a salary increase to match that of the highest earning Civil Servant.

Yes Prime Minister, series 1, episode 5. "A Real Partnership".

Been there already.



Why not put in place a policy of when a government leaves office to be replaced by another the civil service staff go with them and are only re-employed by the new government if they have earned it/worth it. If not the new government hires it's own staff. That way an incoming government isn't lumbered with the same old boys network who are only in it for themselves. A proper independent headcount to take place and I'm sure you'd find that only half of the current staff numbers are actually needed. The savings can be passed onto other areas of public spending where the public are the recipient of the work, nursing, police etc......

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 6th October 15:52

[Spiritual_Beggar]

FourWheelDrift said:

Why not put in place a policy of when a government leaves office to be replaced by another the civil service staff go with them and are only re-employed by the new government if they have earned it/worth it.

They do this in the US if I remember correctly.

When a new president is sworn in, the senior cabinet staff offer their resignation, and the President can then either accept or decline their resignation.

I believe that is done on the basis of tradition and not law though


Somebody correct me if I have this wrong, but it's what I remember.

EFA; a quick google search shows the US are not the only ones to do this.....quite a few appear to do this.

Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Tuesday 6th October 16:10

[jesta1865]

madala said:

....public sector reforms are must if we are to get out of this deep hole.....the gravy train has to be stopped.

no gravy train here, i haven't had a rise for 3 years, our budgets have been cut for the last 4 and god knows what the next one will be like.

all this 'new' talk about cuts is rubbish, its been going on in education for years.

[Dunk76]

jesta1865 said:

all this 'new' talk about cuts is rubbish, its been going on in education for years.

Woah there Jesta, you'll have the Labourites frothing over that one - where's Wanta996Gotta when you need him?

[FourWheelDrift]

jesta1865 said:

no gravy train here, i haven't had a rise for 3 years, our budgets have been cut for the last 4 and god knows what the next one will be like.

all this 'new' talk about cuts is rubbish, its been going on in education for years.

It's not cuts in people who educate or essential roles in other services that is needed, it's cuts in the administration, the red-tape brigade. The vast number of non-jobs created over the past 12 years, the 2 administrators for every 1 nursing staff in the NHS that needs to be sorted.

[Nick_F]

jesta1865 said:

madala said:

....public sector reforms are must if we are to get out of this deep hole.....the gravy train has to be stopped.

no gravy train here, i haven't had a rise for 3 years, our budgets have been cut for the last 4 and god knows what the next one will be like.

all this 'new' talk about cuts is rubbish, its been going on in education for years.

Do you mean you've not even had a cost-of-living increase?

[Ewan S]

FourWheelDrift said:

All that would happen is Sir Humphrey Appleby will work a ploy so that the PM ends up with a salary increase to match that of the highest earning Civil Servant.

Yes Prime Minister, series 1, episode 5. "A Real Partnership".

Been there already.



Why not put in place a policy of when a government leaves office to be replaced by another the civil service staff go with them and are only re-employed by the new government if they have earned it/worth it. If not the new government hires it's own staff. That way an incoming government isn't lumbered with the same old boys network who are only in it for themselves. A proper independent headcount to take place and I'm sure you'd find that only half of the current staff numbers are actually needed. The savings can be passed onto other areas of public spending where the public are the recipient of the work, nursing, police etc......

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 6th October 15:52

I believe Chinese warlords did something similiar by killing off all but the most accepting subjects when taking over a new area. Killing people isn't the answer (unless the problem is chav scum), but threatening people to up their game in the first month of taking over or else might have the same effect

[ninja-lewis]

FourWheelDrift said:

Why not put in place a policy of when a government leaves office to be replaced by another the civil service staff go with them and are only re-employed by the new government if they have earned it/worth it. If not the new government hires it's own staff. That way an incoming government isn't lumbered with the same old boys network who are only in it for themselves. A proper independent headcount to take place and I'm sure you'd find that only half of the current staff numbers are actually needed. The savings can be passed onto other areas of public spending where the public are the recipient of the work, nursing, police etc......

The danger with that approach is that it may become too politicised when the CS is supposed to be independent and impartial: Labour employing Labour civil servants; Tories employing Tories etc. One of the key underpinnings of this country is that the CS never changes, proving the implied continuity, which allows new governments to come in and get on with governing as soon as the new PM gets down to Buckingham Palace. Contrast with America, where many of the senior civil servants are political appointments, they need 2 months to get the new administration in place before they can take over.

All new ministers should undertake an informal review of their department (as you would expect any incoming executive would do in the private sector) but replacing the entire CS shouldn't be a formal, automatic process as happens in the US.

[Saddle bum]

Most Civil Servants of Grade 5 and above are the intellectual superior of most MPs. Without them Government and coherent policy making just would not exist.

[wrinx]

Nick_F said:

jesta1865 said:

madala said:

....public sector reforms are must if we are to get out of this deep hole.....the gravy train has to be stopped.

no gravy train here, i haven't had a rise for 3 years, our budgets have been cut for the last 4 and god knows what the next one will be like.

all this 'new' talk about cuts is rubbish, its been going on in education for years.

Do you mean you've not even had a cost-of-living increase?

Correct, can't quote or remember exact figures....but for approximately the last ten years or so there have been lower than inflation increases for local authority employees in the area I work.

Certain roles are also facing potential wage cuts of around £2-3k in a few weeks, as part of a county wide evaluation process, annoyingly this has nothing to do with any proposed or future "cuts", so there may be more to come!

Budgets have been cut for years and increasing pressure placed on the front line services...not good for those who need and expect quality care and support.

wrinx

[Guybrush]

Chris_w666 said:

So the tories have just driven a huge proportion of the voters who actually turnout straight back to labour.

They'd be utter idiots if they did so. How the hell do they think their salaries are funded, by magic? The country is in dire financial trouble and they'll be out of a job anyway if it carries on this way; money has to be saved somehow. And who is stupid enough to think Labour won't be cutting jobs if they get in again, they can't keep printing money. Labour are just less honest and won't admit to the drastic need to cut costs.

[loltolhurst]

Guybrush said:

Chris_w666 said:

So the tories have just driven a huge proportion of the voters who actually turnout straight back to labour.

They'd be utter idiots if they did so. How the hell do they think their salaries are funded, by magic? The country is in dire financial trouble and they'll be out of a job anyway if it carries on this way; money has to be saved somehow. And who is stupid enough to think Labour won't be cutting jobs if they get in again, they can't keep printing money. Labour are just less honest and won't admit to the drastic need to cut costs.

yes but idiotic behaviour is already proved amongst most of the population. How many people have credit card bills they cant afford and keep their head in the sand. If they see tories will def cut everything and labour just pretend its not happening wouldnt be surprised if they vote labour.

[captainzep]

Fittster said:

madala said:

....public sector reforms are must if we are to get out of this deep hole.....the gravy train has to be stopped.

So why no reduction in the number of public sector employees?

Can only speak for the NHS. You won't find the govt (or opposition) announcing redundancies directly. In the case of Foundation Trusts, they aren't answerable to the DH (not many people know this). they are largely run as businesses and will hire and fire as they see fit. Currently redundancies likely in Berkshire amongst others...

Primary Care Trusts will be given CRES (cash releasing efficiency savings) to make (e.g. chop 5% off your budget) -if they decide to find money in the light of financial pressures via redundancies so be it. But you won't find this in central govt announcements...

Two points though:

-redundancy is expensive and large amounts of cash need to be found up front to cover. This can de-stabilise the year's spending regardless of long term savings. Hence recruitment freezes tend to be favoured and draconian spending controls are imposed (can't buy a kettle without Director of Finance approval).

-Redundancies in the private sector often happen because there is a commercial lack of demand for a service/product and the salaried deadwood is unsustainable. The demand on the public sector is more or less constant though, so its difficult to cut out the unused capacity if its not unused.