Tactical voters
Discussion
So you are voting Tory at the next election to keep labour out. You don't like the tories but you will vote tatically to ensure labour stay out.
Now when you realise the Tories are also a bunch of lying self serving arses will you be proud to have voted for them? Or will you keep quiet.
Now when you realise the Tories are also a bunch of lying self serving arses will you be proud to have voted for them? Or will you keep quiet.
thinfourth2 said:
Now when you realise the Tories are also a bunch of lying self serving arses will you be proud to have voted for them? Or will you keep quiet.
They are a bunch of self serving lying arses who make a decent stab at running the country. A bit of bed hopping was nothing compared to the £50,000 that each of us now owes thanks to Gordon. So, where are you getting yours? JSA?
No, I'll be happy to stand up and be counted.
As for the Tories, we do not know if they will be any good or not.
We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.
Lets turn it around - If Labour win because UKIP voters split the Tory vote, will UKIP voters be prepared to stand up and be counted?
Will UKIP voters admit that the reason we have Labour in for another 5 years , an even weaker country with less power in Europe, is because they caused it by splitting the opposition vote ??
As for the Tories, we do not know if they will be any good or not.
We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.
Lets turn it around - If Labour win because UKIP voters split the Tory vote, will UKIP voters be prepared to stand up and be counted?
Will UKIP voters admit that the reason we have Labour in for another 5 years , an even weaker country with less power in Europe, is because they caused it by splitting the opposition vote ??
grumbledoak said:
thinfourth2 said:
Now when you realise the Tories are also a bunch of lying self serving arses will you be proud to have voted for them? Or will you keep quiet.
They are a bunch of self serving lying arses who make a decent stab at running the country. A bit of bed hopping was nothing compared to the £50,000 that each of us now owes thanks to Gordon. I don't particularly believe in democracy as it has a very poor track record. I understand Martin Bell is seeking an independent candidate for where I live. If this is the case I will be voting for the independent. I have known my current MP to be a criminal long before the current expenses scandal and he is Labour anyway.
toppstuff said:
No, I'll be happy to stand up and be counted.
As for the Tories, we do not know if they will be any good or not.
We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.
Lets turn it around - If Labour win because UKIP voters split the Tory vote, will UKIP voters be prepared to stand up and be counted?
Will UKIP voters admit that the reason we have Labour in for another 5 years , an even weaker country with less power in Europe, is because they caused it by splitting the opposition vote ??
[Harry Enfield]As for the Tories, we do not know if they will be any good or not.
We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.
Lets turn it around - If Labour win because UKIP voters split the Tory vote, will UKIP voters be prepared to stand up and be counted?
Will UKIP voters admit that the reason we have Labour in for another 5 years , an even weaker country with less power in Europe, is because they caused it by splitting the opposition vote ??
Is 'at whatchoo want? Cuz 'at's what'll 'appen.
[/Harry Enfield]
You can take that argument one step further, as I alluded to in the Cameron/Europe thread;
lets say everyone votes Conservative rather than UKIP - maybe 3 or 4 more Conservative MPs than would otherwise have been returned (and I'm being generous).
The Conservatives will be returned to government with a slim majority anyway, that's pretty much assured by Labour's boundary redesign a few years back.
So we have a Conservative government, trying to make things better for the country by cutting here, slimming down there, selling off what assets remain and generally spending the next 5 years administering the medicine the country, and more specifically the economy needs.
What do you think Labour will be doing at that time? Sitting quietly licking their wounds?
Or jeering from the sidelines, telling anyone who'll listen that the Conservatives are up to their old tricks, helping the 'toffs', culling jobs in schools and hospitals that have real effects on front line services....yada yada, we all know the script.
Unlike 1997 where Labour inherited a growing economy, the Conservatives will inherit a very sick one. The Conservatives were in the wilderness for so long because unlike in previous times, 'New' Labour managed to keep the wolf from the door long enough that people really believed they could have it all - prosperity and massive public investment - they looked like they really were a 'Third Way'.
And unfortunately I don't have the optimism in me to think that the electorate will be savvy enough to realise that the prosperity they felt was nothing but an illusion. And we'll be back to a Labour government in 5 years.
So thanks, but I'll vote for whoever looks like they represent me best come election day, be they Conservative, Independant or Monster Raving Loony (AKA UKIP).
toppstuff said:
No, I'll be happy to stand up and be counted.
As for the Tories, we do not know if they will be any good or not.
We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.
Lets turn it around - If Labour win because UKIP voters split the Tory vote, will UKIP voters be prepared to stand up and be counted?
Will UKIP voters admit that the reason we have Labour in for another 5 years , an even weaker country with less power in Europe, is because they caused it by splitting the opposition vote ??
It really does not matter who wins the next election. The important thing is to return to consensus politics. That means a hung parliament or an overall majority but a tiny one. Since the mad cow was elected we have had successive loonies in Thatcher, Blair and now Stalin with mainstream policies that were acceptable and fringe lunacy such as congestion charging, destroying manufacturing, creating quangos and Supporting global warming lies. What we need to do is return the government to the grass roots of parliament, so MPs can vote down the ravings of terminally bewildered cabinets led by little tyrants who have in recent years all been in great need of a good smack. With the additional threat of the jack boot from Brussles we now more than ever need the likes of UKIP to put the fear of Satan into the jibbering public school third rate yes men, we see fit to elect to be laughed at by foreign politicians, with orders of magnitude more intelligence.As for the Tories, we do not know if they will be any good or not.
We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.
Lets turn it around - If Labour win because UKIP voters split the Tory vote, will UKIP voters be prepared to stand up and be counted?
Will UKIP voters admit that the reason we have Labour in for another 5 years , an even weaker country with less power in Europe, is because they caused it by splitting the opposition vote ??
This is my current mindset.
I want an absolute landslide of a victory for the Tories. I want them to decimate Labour.
This is so that in 4 years people wont be tempted to go back to labour when Tories do predictably s
t.
Then Labour can say "You did st in the last 4 years" and Tories can say "But you did st in the 12 years before that and you only got 10% of the votes in the last election" and then people will be forced to actually think and vote for a party other than the one the sun recommends.
That's why I'm voting Tory.
I want an absolute landslide of a victory for the Tories. I want them to decimate Labour.
This is so that in 4 years people wont be tempted to go back to labour when Tories do predictably s
t. Then Labour can say "You did s
t in the last 4 years" and Tories can say "But you did st in the 12 years before that and you only got 10% of the votes in the last election" and then people will be forced to actually think and vote for a party other than the one the sun recommends. That's why I'm voting Tory.
nonegreen said:
we now more than ever need the likes of UKIP to put the fear of Satan into the jibbering public school third rate yes men, we see fit to elect to be laughed at by foreign politicians, with orders of magnitude more intelligence.
But I think the point is that the "political classes" will not fear a large UKIP vote. The jibbering public school yes men really will not care about a UKIP vote because UKIP have no, and will never get, meaningful power.In the corridors of power, UKIP are irrelevant. However tempting it is for the voter to think that a vote for UKIP is a strike for democracy, it is just fanciful nonsense.
Those with power will carry on. All we can do is elect those with power who most closely represent what we want. It's a shame it has to be that way, but democracy is imperfect and I think we just have to be pragmatic. So the Tories it is then...
I'll be voting for an 'also-ran' party. The Tories are in a shocking place and led by a complete buffoon.
My preferred scenario (these threads must be coming up too often, as I've posted this several times before) is for Labour to win the next election, face the truth of the nightmare they have created themselves, make it even worse trying to fix it in their inept way and then have a properly refreshed Tory party landslide to power in 5 year's time led by one of Boris/Hague/Hannan.
It would be worth a few more years of pain to ensure that Labour never win another election in my lifetime.
My preferred scenario (these threads must be coming up too often, as I've posted this several times before) is for Labour to win the next election, face the truth of the nightmare they have created themselves, make it even worse trying to fix it in their inept way and then have a properly refreshed Tory party landslide to power in 5 year's time led by one of Boris/Hague/Hannan.
It would be worth a few more years of pain to ensure that Labour never win another election in my lifetime.
Jasandjules said:
OnTheOverrun said:
Jasandjules said:
UKIP is my best bet..... for a fourth labour term
- EFA
Personally If I believed UKIP had a half decent chance of power, or even the balance of power, I would consider voting for them. Because they don't, my choice is very easy for me.
V8mate said:
I'll be voting for an 'also-ran' party. The Tories are in a shocking place and led by a complete buffoon.
My preferred scenario (these threads must be coming up too often, as I've posted this several times before) is for Labour to win the next election, face the truth of the nightmare they have created themselves, make it even worse trying to fix it in their inept way and then have a properly refreshed Tory party landslide to power in 5 year's time led by one of Boris/Hague/Hannan.
It would be worth a few more years of pain to ensure that Labour never win another election in my lifetime.
The fatal flaw in your plan is the shockingly short memory of the electorate.My preferred scenario (these threads must be coming up too often, as I've posted this several times before) is for Labour to win the next election, face the truth of the nightmare they have created themselves, make it even worse trying to fix it in their inept way and then have a properly refreshed Tory party landslide to power in 5 year's time led by one of Boris/Hague/Hannan.
It would be worth a few more years of pain to ensure that Labour never win another election in my lifetime.
V8mate said:
I'll be voting for an 'also-ran' party. The Tories are in a shocking place and led by a complete buffoon.
My preferred scenario (these threads must be coming up too often, as I've posted this several times before) is for Labour to win the next election, face the truth of the nightmare they have created themselves, make it even worse trying to fix it in their inept way and then have a properly refreshed Tory party landslide to power in 5 year's time led by one of Boris/Hague/Hannan.
It would be worth a few more years of pain to ensure that Labour never win another election in my lifetime.
I'm not prepared to wait. Not prepared to endure another 5 years of labour. My preferred scenario (these threads must be coming up too often, as I've posted this several times before) is for Labour to win the next election, face the truth of the nightmare they have created themselves, make it even worse trying to fix it in their inept way and then have a properly refreshed Tory party landslide to power in 5 year's time led by one of Boris/Hague/Hannan.
It would be worth a few more years of pain to ensure that Labour never win another election in my lifetime.
If the tories win, I don't think Labour will be an effective opposition for a long time.
All the established Labour cronies will retire. There will then be a battle inside Labour between the old labour lefties and the progressives, tearing themselves apart for a generation. I think Labour is ill-prepared to form an effective opposition and they will be in a mess for a couple of years.
All the more reason, therefore, to get the Tories in. They will have a couple of years to assert themselves while the opposition try to figure out what they stand for.
toppstuff said:
nonegreen said:
we now more than ever need the likes of UKIP to put the fear of Satan into the jibbering public school third rate yes men, we see fit to elect to be laughed at by foreign politicians, with orders of magnitude more intelligence.
But I think the point is that the "political classes" will not fear a large UKIP vote. The jibbering public school yes men really will not care about a UKIP vote because UKIP have no, and will never get, meaningful power.In the corridors of power, UKIP are irrelevant. However tempting it is for the voter to think that a vote for UKIP is a strike for democracy, it is just fanciful nonsense.
Those with power will carry on. All we can do is elect those with power who most closely represent what we want. It's a shame it has to be that way, but democracy is imperfect and I think we just have to be pragmatic. So the Tories it is then...
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