Tactical voters

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Fittster said:

As someone who want's to see radical change of the system I'm almost tempted to vote labour as this is most likely to bring the current system crashing down.

However I'll stick to my principles and not vote.

Perhaps the Jury Party s the party for you....

"Politics without Parties"...

I would vote for them but much as I aggree with abolishing the party whip system I feel it would be a wasted vote, simply helping out Labour...

[tank slapper]

The real problem is the voting system is not very democratic. It allows safe seats, so almost guarantees that a great many seats will not change hands, and those that do will largely be a two horse race. Until there is electoral reform (preferably to a system of single transferable vote) and the introduction of open primaries, the tactical voting problem will remain.

[Fittster]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Fittster said:

As someone who want's to see radical change of the system I'm almost tempted to vote labour as this is most likely to bring the current system crashing down.

However I'll stick to my principles and not vote.

Perhaps the Jury Party s the party for you....

"Politics without Parties"...

I would vote for them but much as I aggree with abolishing the party whip system I feel it would be a wasted vote, simply helping out Labour...

Us anarchist capitalist don't vote, if that leads to a Labour government so what? The IMF will impose more reforms on the state than the conservatives ever would.

[OnTheOverrun]

Jasandjules said:

The Dilemma is that I want UKIP to win, and/or have enough power to make a difference. If that could be remotely possible then they'd be worth a vore. If it's not going to be remotely possible then I will be forced to vote Tory, but I fear more AGW tax.

That's fair enough and I shall also be monitoring the polls nearer to the election but with a poll today on the politics show showing europe is down at 12th place in voters concerns currently, I can't see them having any chance of getting a single MP, let alone enough for any kind of power.

My personal belief is that the only way to get what I want is to ensure a tory win this time and work from there.

[V8mate]

toppstuff said:

V8mate said:

I'll be voting for an 'also-ran' party. The Tories are in a shocking place and led by a complete buffoon.

My preferred scenario (these threads must be coming up too often, as I've posted this several times before) is for Labour to win the next election, face the truth of the nightmare they have created themselves, make it even worse trying to fix it in their inept way and then have a properly refreshed Tory party landslide to power in 5 year's time led by one of Boris/Hague/Hannan.

It would be worth a few more years of pain to ensure that Labour never win another election in my lifetime.

I'm not prepared to wait. Not prepared to endure another 5 years of labour.

If the tories win, I don't think Labour will be an effective opposition for a long time.

All the established Labour cronies will retire. There will then be a battle inside Labour between the old labour lefties and the progressives, tearing themselves apart for a generation. I think Labour is ill-prepared to form an effective opposition and they will be in a mess for a couple of years.

All the more reason, therefore, to get the Tories in. They will have a couple of years to assert themselves while the opposition try to figure out what they stand for.

But that's just the point. The Tories won't assert themselves, they are led by policy-corrupt plum who has nothing new to offer the country. And if they do try, their efforts will be of an utterly Blairite hue.

[Frankeh]

V8mate said:

But that's just the point. The Tories won't assert themselves, they are led by policy-corrupt plum who has nothing new to offer the country. And if they do try, their efforts will be of an utterly Blairite hue.

Ok, vote labour then.
Voting anyone else other than Tory is technically a vote helping labour.

[V8mate]

Frankeh said:

V8mate said:

But that's just the point. The Tories won't assert themselves, they are led by policy-corrupt plum who has nothing new to offer the country. And if they do try, their efforts will be of an utterly Blairite hue.

Ok, vote labour then.
Voting anyone else other than Tory is technically a vote helping labour.

It depends on your local constituency. In my town, for example, we have a Lib Dem MP with a smallish majority. Any likely swing would be to Tory, so the tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem (even though it pains me)

[toppstuff]

V8mate said:

toppstuff said:

V8mate said:

I'll be voting for an 'also-ran' party. The Tories are in a shocking place and led by a complete buffoon.

My preferred scenario (these threads must be coming up too often, as I've posted this several times before) is for Labour to win the next election, face the truth of the nightmare they have created themselves, make it even worse trying to fix it in their inept way and then have a properly refreshed Tory party landslide to power in 5 year's time led by one of Boris/Hague/Hannan.

It would be worth a few more years of pain to ensure that Labour never win another election in my lifetime.

I'm not prepared to wait. Not prepared to endure another 5 years of labour.

If the tories win, I don't think Labour will be an effective opposition for a long time.

All the established Labour cronies will retire. There will then be a battle inside Labour between the old labour lefties and the progressives, tearing themselves apart for a generation. I think Labour is ill-prepared to form an effective opposition and they will be in a mess for a couple of years.

All the more reason, therefore, to get the Tories in. They will have a couple of years to assert themselves while the opposition try to figure out what they stand for.

But that's just the point. The Tories won't assert themselves, they are led by policy-corrupt plum who has nothing new to offer the country. And if they do try, their efforts will be of an utterly Blairite hue.

I don't ( quite) share your cynicism. The only alternative is the Tories and as, by definition, the only other scenario is that Labour get in again, which is unthinkably worse, I see no alternative to letting the plum, as you put it, have a go.

If I thought for one moment that my vote for a fringe party, or a non-vote, was even remotely responsible for contributing toward a labour win , I really could not live with myself. Anyone thinking of voting UKIP ought to think hard about it in that way IMO, because they will hold some responsibility if Stalin does get in again.

[catso]

toppstuff said:

If I thought for one moment that my vote for a fringe party, or a non-vote, was even remotely responsible for contributing toward a labour win , I really could not live with myself. Anyone thinking of voting UKIP ought to think hard about it in that way IMO, because they will hold some responsibility if Stalin does get in again.

My feelings exactly, plus I live in a safe Tory seat so it would make little difference to vote otherwise.

[OnTheOverrun]

V8mate said:

Frankeh said:

V8mate said:

But that's just the point. The Tories won't assert themselves, they are led by policy-corrupt plum who has nothing new to offer the country. And if they do try, their efforts will be of an utterly Blairite hue.

Ok, vote labour then.
Voting anyone else other than Tory is technically a vote helping labour.

It depends on your local constituency. In my town, for example, we have a Lib Dem MP with a smallish majority. Any likely swing would be to Tory, so the tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem (even though it pains me)

How is it tactical to vote for the most openly pro-EU party, the libdems?

[Bing o]

I and many of my colleagues and friends will be doing exactly this if Labour are returned for a fourth term.

[V8mate]

OnTheOverrun said:

V8mate said:

Frankeh said:

V8mate said:

But that's just the point. The Tories won't assert themselves, they are led by policy-corrupt plum who has nothing new to offer the country. And if they do try, their efforts will be of an utterly Blairite hue.

Ok, vote labour then.
Voting anyone else other than Tory is technically a vote helping labour.

It depends on your local constituency. In my town, for example, we have a Lib Dem MP with a smallish majority. Any likely swing would be to Tory, so the tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem (even though it pains me)

How is it tactical to vote for the most openly pro-EU party, the libdems?

Read the whole discussion

[Frankeh]

Bing o said:

I and many of my colleagues and friends will be doing exactly this if Labour are returned for a fourth term.

No, you wont....

[bakerjuk]

toppstuff said:

We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.

What a load of tosh.. you dont know anything really do you ..
You only KNOW that you are voting to continue the cycle of champagne socialism..

[toppstuff]

bakerjuk said:

toppstuff said:

We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.

What a load of tosh.. you dont know anything really do you ..
You only KNOW that you are voting to continue the cycle of champagne socialism..

Uuh? You do understand how the voting system works in the UK I assume and have read the thread..you know, first past the post based on seats won vs proportional representation etc... ?

I ask because what you have just posted is, frankly, cobblers. It's gibberish.

[OnTheOverrun]

V8mate said:

OnTheOverrun said:

V8mate said:

Frankeh said:

V8mate said:

But that's just the point. The Tories won't assert themselves, they are led by policy-corrupt plum who has nothing new to offer the country. And if they do try, their efforts will be of an utterly Blairite hue.

Ok, vote labour then.
Voting anyone else other than Tory is technically a vote helping labour.

It depends on your local constituency. In my town, for example, we have a Lib Dem MP with a smallish majority. Any likely swing would be to Tory, so the tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem (even though it pains me)

How is it tactical to vote for the most openly pro-EU party, the libdems?

Read the whole discussion

I have, including your post where you outline your ideal outcome, but I still can't see how voting libdem is a better way to achieve what you want than just voting labour, which would make it more likely.

[OnTheOverrun]

bakerjuk said:

toppstuff said:

We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.

What a load of tosh.. you dont know anything really do you ..
You only KNOW that you are voting to continue the cycle of champagne socialism..

I'll be happy to bet you a year's salary that either Labour or Tory do form the next government if you're confident in your opinion.

[Mark Benson]

toppstuff said:

bakerjuk said:

toppstuff said:

We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.

What a load of tosh.. you dont know anything really do you ..
You only KNOW that you are voting to continue the cycle of champagne socialism..

Uuh? You do understand how the voting system works in the UK I assume and have read the thread..you know, first past the post based on seats won vs proportional representation etc... ?

I ask because what you have just posted is, frankly, cobblers. It's gibberish.

Have you considered the effect of a hung parliament?

Nothing gets done (which may actually be a good thing, as they can't f**k things up any more than they already have if they can't pass any more legislation, but I digress...) and the populous starts to look to polarise their politicians so there's a distinction again between left and right.

It could well have the effect of pushing the parties back to their heartlands, where their core votes lie.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

OnTheOverrun said:

bakerjuk said:

toppstuff said:

We DO KNOW, with 100% certainty, that either Labour or Tory will win and form a government. That is an indisputable fact. Of the two, I would rather it is the Tories because Labour simply have to go.

What a load of tosh.. you dont know anything really do you ..
You only KNOW that you are voting to continue the cycle of champagne socialism..

I'll be happy to bet you a year's salary that either Labour or Tory do form the next government if you're confident in your opinion.

Careful - bakerjuk might be hoping for a hung parliament.

[V8mate]

OnTheOverrun said:

V8mate said:

OnTheOverrun said:

V8mate said:

Frankeh said:

V8mate said:

But that's just the point. The Tories won't assert themselves, they are led by policy-corrupt plum who has nothing new to offer the country. And if they do try, their efforts will be of an utterly Blairite hue.

Ok, vote labour then.
Voting anyone else other than Tory is technically a vote helping labour.

It depends on your local constituency. In my town, for example, we have a Lib Dem MP with a smallish majority. Any likely swing would be to Tory, so the tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem (even though it pains me)

How is it tactical to vote for the most openly pro-EU party, the libdems?

Read the whole discussion

I have, including your post where you outline your ideal outcome, but I still can't see how voting libdem is a better way to achieve what you want than just voting labour, which would make it more likely.

Because my constituency has a sitting Lib Dem MP on a small majority and with the Tories a close second. Therefore, to ensure Labour get more seats than the Tories, I have to vote in such a way as to best keep a Tory out of the seat. Voting Labour may mean that I assist the Lib Dem MP in losing his seat to a Tory.