Dodgy Toyota accelerator death

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 5th February 2010
quotequote all
no one else think this whole story sounds a bit fishy? all due respect to the dead/innocent but an advanced driver (CHP) can't slow a runaway car but they do manage to call 911 and get a recording of the ordeal? modern brakes can slow any FWD/4WD car to a halt on the brakes (dont try it you'll trash the torque converter). very weird or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems.

tinman0

18,231 posts

241 months

Friday 5th February 2010
quotequote all
fbrs said:
no one else think this whole story sounds a bit fishy? all due respect to the dead/innocent but an advanced driver (CHP) can't slow a runaway car but they do manage to call 911 and get a recording of the ordeal? modern brakes can slow any FWD/4WD car to a halt on the brakes (dont try it you'll trash the torque converter). very weird or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems.
Yeah, you are right, because a guy really did want to die and kill his family in the process so a keyboard warrior could start thinking up some sort of conspiracy.

Cmon, Real World is out there. Step away from the keyboard. Engage with reality.

ctallchris

1,266 posts

180 months

Friday 5th February 2010
quotequote all
tinman0 said:
fbrs said:
no one else think this whole story sounds a bit fishy? all due respect to the dead/innocent but an advanced driver (CHP) can't slow a runaway car but they do manage to call 911 and get a recording of the ordeal? modern brakes can slow any FWD/4WD car to a halt on the brakes (dont try it you'll trash the torque converter). very weird or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems.
Yeah, you are right, because a guy really did want to die and kill his family in the process so a keyboard warrior could start thinking up some sort of conspiracy.

Cmon, Real World is out there. Step away from the keyboard. Engage with reality.
would you intentionally crash your car at 50 mph for £1,000,000?

there are a lot of people who really dont give a **** about their family's safety. You just have to watch police programmes to see them

tinman0

18,231 posts

241 months

Friday 5th February 2010
quotequote all
ctallchris said:
would you intentionally crash your car at 50 mph for £1,000,000?

there are a lot of people who really dont give a **** about their family's safety. You just have to watch police programmes to see them
Would you intentionally crash a car at over 125? I wouldn't.

And you can watch all the Police programmes you want where people put the lives of their family in danger, and they mostly conform to a single definition: pikey

This was a middle aged suburban couple, Mr and Mrs Average. Not Mr "I could get a million buck if I crash this car at 125mph with my family in it" Average.

BliarOut

72,857 posts

240 months

Friday 5th February 2010
quotequote all
fbrs said:
no one else think this whole story sounds a bit fishy? all due respect to the dead/innocent but an advanced driver (CHP) can't slow a runaway car but they do manage to call 911 and get a recording of the ordeal? modern brakes can slow any FWD/4WD car to a halt on the brakes (dont try it you'll trash the torque converter). very weird or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems.
As I've already explained, when it happens for real (when you're behind the wheel, not the keyboard) they can't.

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 5th February 2010
quotequote all
tinman0 said:
fbrs said:
no one else think this whole story sounds a bit fishy? all due respect to the dead/innocent but an advanced driver (CHP) can't slow a runaway car but they do manage to call 911 and get a recording of the ordeal? modern brakes can slow any FWD/4WD car to a halt on the brakes (dont try it you'll trash the torque converter). very weird or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems.
Yeah, you are right, because a guy really did want to die and kill his family in the process so a keyboard warrior could start thinking up some sort of conspiracy.

Cmon, Real World is out there. Step away from the keyboard. Engage with reality.
banghead
try reading my post and disengaging the emotion for a second. what do you actually disagree with? firstly i know you can slow a WOT auto on the brakes ive done it and chrysler has the destroyed torque converters to prove it. secondly i said "or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems"; i take it you think this is what happened? jammed throttle AND faulty brakes? on a 2009 lexus? quite what my post has with anyone dying is beyond me. the tragic result was not the cause or even relevant! personally i'd like to know the cause. did you cry when diana died ?

attempted scam gone horribly wrong as suggested above, possibly, here's another scenario; jammed throttle, push button start/no key so can't turn off ignition, electromechanical lock keeps drive engaged at speed (never heard of this but maybe), ABS/TC/ESP gets confused and releases the brakes (maybe). i havent seen this as a theory but its more worrying than anything else ive read. (this guy was vetran CHP, i can't think of a person more qualified to deal with a stressful driving situation, he's not gonna ride the brakes till he loses them like your average muppet might)

its a sad tale for sure but calm down with your keyboard warrior/"won't someone think of the children" drivel.



Edited by fbrs on Friday 5th February 21:45

tinman0

18,231 posts

241 months

Friday 5th February 2010
quotequote all
fbrs said:
tinman0 said:
fbrs said:
no one else think this whole story sounds a bit fishy? all due respect to the dead/innocent but an advanced driver (CHP) can't slow a runaway car but they do manage to call 911 and get a recording of the ordeal? modern brakes can slow any FWD/4WD car to a halt on the brakes (dont try it you'll trash the torque converter). very weird or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems.
Yeah, you are right, because a guy really did want to die and kill his family in the process so a keyboard warrior could start thinking up some sort of conspiracy.

Cmon, Real World is out there. Step away from the keyboard. Engage with reality.
banghead
try reading my post and disengaging the emotion for a second. what do you actually disagree with? firstly i know you can slow a WOT auto on the brakes ive done it and chrysler has the destroyed torque converters to prove it. secondly i said "or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems"; i take it you think this is what happened? jammed throttle AND faulty brakes? on a 2009 lexus? quite what my post has with anyone dying is beyond me. the end result was not the cause! personally i'd like to know the cause. did you cry when diana died ?

attempted scam gone horribly wrong as suggested above, possibly, here's another scenario; jammed throttle, push button start/no key so can't turn off ignition, electromechanical lock keeps drive engaged at speed (never heard of this but maybe), ABS/TC/ESP gets confused and releases the brakes (maybe). i havent seen this as a theory but its more worrying than anything else ive read. (this guy was vetran CHP, i can't think of a person more qualified to deal with the situation, he's not gonna ride the brakes till he loses them like your average muppet might)

its a sad tale for sure but calm down with your keyboard warrior/won't someone think of the children drivel.
I have a high powered Toyota sitting outside, and I reckon, if it was minded to jam its throttle down, the brakes would be history in short order.

The moment you scrub any speed off the car - what is the autobox going to do? It's going to kick down. Everytime you slow the car, it will kick down more gears. I have no doubt that if i was in that situation, my 300bhp on my Toyota engine is going to win the argument with the brakes.

This isn't about "thinking of the children" either. Someone died and all that some posters on PH can do is post from their armchairs of all the possible options available to them, which is distasteful at its best.

And as for Diana - lets remember that the person wearing the seatbelt lived. Couldn't care less that she died frankly as I never knew her. But her, Dodi and the drunk driver are testament to seatbelts saving lives. Maybe if she had a seatbelt, her aorta wouldn't have been ripped from her heart during the accident.


Poledriver

28,645 posts

195 months

Friday 5th February 2010
quotequote all
tinman0 said:
fbrs said:
tinman0 said:
fbrs said:
no one else think this whole story sounds a bit fishy? all due respect to the dead/innocent but an advanced driver (CHP) can't slow a runaway car but they do manage to call 911 and get a recording of the ordeal? modern brakes can slow any FWD/4WD car to a halt on the brakes (dont try it you'll trash the torque converter). very weird or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems.
Yeah, you are right, because a guy really did want to die and kill his family in the process so a keyboard warrior could start thinking up some sort of conspiracy.

Cmon, Real World is out there. Step away from the keyboard. Engage with reality.
banghead
try reading my post and disengaging the emotion for a second. what do you actually disagree with? firstly i know you can slow a WOT auto on the brakes ive done it and chrysler has the destroyed torque converters to prove it. secondly i said "or incredibly unlucky series of mechanical problems"; i take it you think this is what happened? jammed throttle AND faulty brakes? on a 2009 lexus? quite what my post has with anyone dying is beyond me. the end result was not the cause! personally i'd like to know the cause. did you cry when diana died ?

attempted scam gone horribly wrong as suggested above, possibly, here's another scenario; jammed throttle, push button start/no key so can't turn off ignition, electromechanical lock keeps drive engaged at speed (never heard of this but maybe), ABS/TC/ESP gets confused and releases the brakes (maybe). i havent seen this as a theory but its more worrying than anything else ive read. (this guy was vetran CHP, i can't think of a person more qualified to deal with the situation, he's not gonna ride the brakes till he loses them like your average muppet might)

its a sad tale for sure but calm down with your keyboard warrior/won't someone think of the children drivel.
I have a high powered Toyota sitting outside, and I reckon, if it was minded to jam its throttle down, the brakes would be history in short order.

The moment you scrub any speed off the car - what is the autobox going to do? It's going to kick down. Everytime you slow the car, it will kick down more gears. I have no doubt that if i was in that situation, my 300bhp on my Toyota engine is going to win the argument with the brakes.

This isn't about "thinking of the children" either. Someone died and all that some posters on PH can do is post from their armchairs of all the possible options available to them, which is distasteful at its best.

And as for Diana - lets remember that the person wearing the seatbelt lived. Couldn't care less that she died frankly as I never knew her. But her, Dodi and the drunk driver are testament to seatbelts saving lives. Maybe if she had a seatbelt, her aorta wouldn't have been ripped from her heart during the accident.
REVELATION! Dodi didn't die! rolleyes
If you are driving an automatic and the throttle sticks, put it in neutral and use the brakes! Simples! biggrin

Edited by Poledriver on Friday 5th February 23:51

tinman0

18,231 posts

241 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
Poledriver said:
REVELATION! Dodi didn't die! rolleyes
If you are driving an automatic and the throttle sticks, put it in neutral and use the brakes! Simples! biggrin
I've no idea what you mean by Dodi didn't die.

As for the moving the vehicle into neutral, I have no idea why they didn't, and I'm not about to try it out on ours.

Poledriver

28,645 posts

195 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
tinman0 said:
Poledriver said:
REVELATION! Dodi didn't die! rolleyes
If you are driving an automatic and the throttle sticks, put it in neutral and use the brakes! Simples! biggrin
I've no idea what you mean by Dodi didn't die.

As for the moving the vehicle into neutral, I have no idea why they didn't, and I'm not about to try it out on ours.
tinman0 said:
And as for Diana - lets remember that the person wearing the seatbelt lived. Couldn't care less that she died frankly as I never knew her. But her, Dodi and the drunk driver are testament to seatbelts saving lives. Maybe if she had a seatbelt, her aorta wouldn't have been ripped from her heart during the accident.
It looks like you're saying that Diana was the only one who died!

fido

16,805 posts

256 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
tinman0 said:
hornetrider said:
On DBW cars the application of the brake overrides the input from the accelerator. Did in my old VAG disel anyway.
Doesn't on our Toyota. Nor my Fiat. Nor any of our Fords. Nor the Smart.
Neither have Honda or Volvo - so how comes no issues (that i've heard of) with these brands?
Just wondering why Bosch/VAG stuff have a brake override but others don't - or is it controlled through some other mechanism?

Edited by fido on Saturday 6th February 00:15

ctallchris

1,266 posts

180 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
fido said:
tinman0 said:
hornetrider said:
On DBW cars the application of the brake overrides the input from the accelerator. Did in my old VAG disel anyway.
Doesn't on our Toyota. Nor my Fiat. Nor any of our Fords. Nor the Smart.
Neither have Honda or Volvo - so how comes no issues (that i've heard of) with these brands?
Just wondering why Bosch/VAG stuff have a brake override but others don't - or is it controlled through some other mechanism?

Edited by fido on Saturday 6th February 00:15
why would you need to overide the brakes

porsche 911 0-100 9.4 seconds
porsche 911 100-0 4.3 seconds

given a veyron thakes 5/7 seconds to do this sprint i think it's safe to say this shows brakes are more powerful than engine so as long as you apply the brakes hard you should come to a stop.

unless of course you drove down the road thinking hmm my accelerator seems to be sticking. I know i'll countract that by lightly holding the brake thus solving the problem once and for all.

tinman0

18,231 posts

241 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
Poledriver said:
tinman0 said:
And as for Diana - lets remember that the person wearing the seatbelt lived. Couldn't care less that she died frankly as I never knew her. But her, Dodi and the drunk driver are testament to seatbelts saving lives. Maybe if she had a seatbelt, her aorta wouldn't have been ripped from her heart during the accident.
It looks like you're saying that Diana was the only one who died!
Well have another go at reading it!

None of them were wearing seatbelts. They all died. The guy wearing his seatbelt (the body guard) who caught a concrete post in his face lived through it, albeit with horrible injuries.

fildigger

1,095 posts

206 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
Back to the 4 that died in the Lexus in the US, i have no wish to bring into question the intellect of the Driver or passengers of the Lexus!

Only that He was a Law enforcement officer (copper) of 20 yrs or more & had a very good mechanical apptitude (responsible for maintaining a variety of vehicles!) Does seem odd he had the presence of mind (or a passenger did) to phone the police to discuss his situation! there was a Policeman at the wheel!!!!

Worth noting that the Lexus was not his vehicle, it appears it was a rental vehicle or borrowed, so he may not of been familiar with the controls! Although there can't be many Americans who do not know the functions of an auto' box!

R.I.P


Trooper2

6,676 posts

232 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
jeff m said:
Switchng off the engine using the key is actually a very bad option...steering lock is applied...as a yooth I did this at parking speed and got a gouged rim courtesy of a kerbsmile

Travelling at usual driving speeds would be pretty scary at best.
Brakes, nuetral, the engine will rev to it's limit but far safer.
Steering lock is only applied if the key is removed from the ignition - not if its simply switched off... I think?!
Key position II- Start, cranks engine. No detent, key returns to position I when released.
Key position I- Run, engines runs and electrical accessories enabled, steering unlocked.
Key position O- Off, turns off engine and accessories, locks steering wheel in vehicles equiped.
Key position ACC- Accessory, allows most electrical accessories to be turned on, steering locked if equiped.



Edited by Trooper2 on Saturday 6th February 04:22

Trooper2

6,676 posts

232 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
I drove a Toyota Matrix today as part of a used car safety inspection and all went well. Maybe I should go buy a lottery ticket?

GavinPearson

5,715 posts

252 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
Trooper2 said:
hornetrider said:
jeff m said:
Switchng off the engine using the key is actually a very bad option...steering lock is applied...as a yooth I did this at parking speed and got a gouged rim courtesy of a kerbsmile

Travelling at usual driving speeds would be pretty scary at best.
Brakes, nuetral, the engine will rev to it's limit but far safer.
Steering lock is only applied if the key is removed from the ignition - not if its simply switched off... I think?!
Key position II- Start, cranks engine. No detent, key returns to position I when released.
Key position I- Run, engines runs and electrical accessories enabled, steering unlocked.
Key position O- Off, turns off engine and accessories, locks steering wheel in vehicles equiped.
Key position ACC- Accessory, allows most electrical accessories to be turned on, steering locked if equiped.



Edited by Trooper2 on Saturday 6th February 04:22
You're missing the point. The car DID NOT HAVE A KEY, IT HAD A START STOP BUTTON THAT DIDN'T STOP THE ENGINE WHEN THE TROOPER PRESSED IT.

Blue Meanie

73,668 posts

256 months

Saturday 6th February 2010
quotequote all
he was answering Hornetriders question...

Trooper2

6,676 posts

232 months

Tuesday 9th February 2010
quotequote all
GavinPearson said:
Trooper2 said:
hornetrider said:
jeff m said:
Switchng off the engine using the key is actually a very bad option...steering lock is applied...as a yooth I did this at parking speed and got a gouged rim courtesy of a kerbsmile

Travelling at usual driving speeds would be pretty scary at best.
Brakes, nuetral, the engine will rev to it's limit but far safer.
Steering lock is only applied if the key is removed from the ignition - not if its simply switched off... I think?!
Key position II- Start, cranks engine. No detent, key returns to position I when released.
Key position I- Run, engines runs and electrical accessories enabled, steering unlocked.
Key position O- Off, turns off engine and accessories, locks steering wheel in vehicles equiped.
Key position ACC- Accessory, allows most electrical accessories to be turned on, steering locked if equiped.



Edited by Trooper2 on Saturday 6th February 04:22
You're missing the point. The car DID NOT HAVE A KEY, IT HAD A START STOP BUTTON THAT DIDN'T STOP THE ENGINE WHEN THE TROOPER PRESSED IT.
I'm sure I did, but I'm just a moron who repairs cars that the automotive engineers didn't get right.... wink

All I've got to do are warranties, recalls and cars that helpline/field service engineers are clueless with, maybe if I could afford to eat, my responces to posts would be more to the point! ... smile

Hub

6,440 posts

199 months

Tuesday 9th February 2010
quotequote all
So now the media is going hysterical over this Prius brake 'feel' issue. Bad timing for Toyota, but they aren't exactly reporting all the other manufacturers who undertake recalls for minor issues!