Tory lead down to 2%

[tinman0]

unrepentant said:

tinman0 said:

Unfortunately, no matter how right (or wrong) you are, these two make the list above look pretty good:

Oh the Millipedes are awful, as are the rest of the cabinet. The problem is that we want them removed and therefore we have to have an alternative. The Tory front bench is shockingly second rate. After 13 years in opposition they should have a premiership standard team that the public can believe in. When Labour came in they had frontline politicians who the public believed (rightly or wrongly) offered a better alternative. Blair was personally very popular in 97 and Brown was highly respected, as were Mowlam, Blunkett, Cook, Dewar and Straw. Whatever we think of them now they had genuine credability back in 97. The CMD tories are a mixture of has beens, never will be's and jokes. Apart from Hague and Clarke there is not a credible politician amongst them.

Think you are rewriting a bit of history there.

Non of the Labour front bench were highly regarded. They were all crackpots with serious Communist ideals from their student days.

And look where we are today in CCTV Land? Where traffic wardens that can request your emails to see if you've committed a crime.

In fact, iirc, most of the Labour front bench had to go on courses just before the election on how to be a Cabinet Minister as they were all so devoid of ministerial experience.

I take it back actually. The student Communists have been extremely successful in bringing Communism to the UK. They just rebranded it as New Labour and told everyone that they were really right wingers.

[Pesty]

Iain328 said:

Maybe he was evasive about it - but , given that no laws were being broken, was it really his place to disuss another man's private financial affairs & tax status? Indeed, which cretin of an interviewer even bothered to ask the question to Hague but not to Ashcroft himself?

Let me guess - its was the BBC.

it was, I have heard 3 interviews one of them on Radio 4 the others I think were Andrew Marr and balls I have forgotten the name of the other one famous bloke garr this is going to anoy me now.

Anyway yes they should not have asked or at least gone after Labours non doms as well with the same ferosity.

Its more the way he answered he was squirming it was obvious to me he was lieing. he should have just said ask him and moved on but he was so innept I changed my mind completely about him.

edit paxman

here is the paxman interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT9Sa-XXvYw

I just like them to answer teh questions instead of spinning and talking balls.

Have you asked him deserves a yes or no answer. The radio and teh Marr ones were worse

Edited by Pesty on Sunday 7th March 21:33

[unrepentant]

tinman0 said:

unrepentant said:

tinman0 said:

Unfortunately, no matter how right (or wrong) you are, these two make the list above look pretty good:

Oh the Millipedes are awful, as are the rest of the cabinet. The problem is that we want them removed and therefore we have to have an alternative. The Tory front bench is shockingly second rate. After 13 years in opposition they should have a premiership standard team that the public can believe in. When Labour came in they had frontline politicians who the public believed (rightly or wrongly) offered a better alternative. Blair was personally very popular in 97 and Brown was highly respected, as were Mowlam, Blunkett, Cook, Dewar and Straw. Whatever we think of them now they had genuine credability back in 97. The CMD tories are a mixture of has beens, never will be's and jokes. Apart from Hague and Clarke there is not a credible politician amongst them.

Think you are rewriting a bit of history there.

Non of the Labour front bench were highly regarded. They were all crackpots with serious Communist ideals from their student days.

In fact, iirc, most of the Labour front bench had to go on courses just before the election on how to be a Cabinet Minister as they were all so devoid of ministerial experience.

If you knew anything you would know that it is normal practice for shadow ministers to have induction courses prior to a general election, the tories have all undertaken just such "training" in the past 12 months to prepare them for government. Unfortunately that now looks like a waste of taxpayers money.

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

[s2art]

unrepentant said:

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

My guess is that most of the NuLab front bench were virtually unknowns to the majority of the public, and it was Tory ineptness that caused their wipeout, rather than Nulabs appeal.

[unrepentant]

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

My guess is that most of the NuLab front bench were virtually unknowns to the majority of the public, and it was Tory ineptness that caused their wipeout, rather than Nulabs appeal.

I'm not guessing. Blair and Brown (particularly Blair) had a huge public image in 97 and a number of others like Robin Cook had very high public profiles. Mandelson orchestrated a great campaign and to suggest otherwise is to miss the point. The tories were truly awful and that undoubtedly helped Blair to secure a huge landslide but Labour were very well prepared. The contrast with this election is clear. We have a hugely unpopular and inept Labour leadership and a tory party that is not in a position to capitalise on that. Brown 12 months ago was more unpopular than Major ever was but CMD is just not capable of getting the job done.

[Iain328]

unrepentant said:

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

My guess is that most of the NuLab front bench were virtually unknowns to the majority of the public, and it was Tory ineptness that caused their wipeout, rather than Nulabs appeal.

I'm not guessing. Blair and Brown (particularly Blair) had a huge public image in 97 and a number of others like Robin Cook had very high public profiles. Mandelson orchestrated a great campaign and to suggest otherwise is to miss the point. The tories were truly awful and that undoubtedly helped Blair to secure a huge landslide but Labour were very well prepared. The contrast with this election is clear. We have a hugely unpopular and inept Labour leadership and a tory party that is not in a position to capitalise on that. Brown 12 months ago was more unpopular than Major ever was but CMD is just not capable of getting the job done.

Maybe, maybe not. This labour government is a very different animal to Major - they have no morals, no scruples & there are no depths to which they will sink. They are vicious.

The Tories have said so little with so little detail that I firmly believe it is a deliberate strategy to contain Labour in a vacuum & give them nothing specific to aim at. Any time the Tories have published anything specific the entire labour spin machine zeros in on it relentlessly and has done for years. They are past masters at shouting loudly & often until people believe them. So why help them?

The Tories are deliberately saying as little as they can till the coward pulls the trigger on the starting gun. When he does I fully expect (hope to God!) things will change in this regard. The Tories can massivly out-spend labour at this election & I expect to see a positive blizzard of stuff coming out as soon as the thing is underway.

If you look even the polls are beginning to comment on how little the Tories are saying. And still they are ahead.

We shall see - If I am right Labour is going to get ambushed and overwhelmed by this & generally murdered. If I am not and the Tories really are dithering then we are screwed. But frankly there are too many highly intelligent people at work (both visibly and behind the scenes) to let that happen. There is much more to this than meets the eye - yet - I think. In Tsun Tzu (Art of war) terms its a classic "Containment" strategy to be followed by (probably) a "Flanking manouevre" of some kind.

In boxing terms - Ali-Foreman.

It'll be interesting (or possibly highly depressing!) to watch!

Edited by Iain328 on Monday 8th March 00:51

[tinman0]

unrepentant said:

If you knew anything you would know that it is normal practice for shadow ministers to have induction courses prior to a general election, the tories have all undertaken just such "training" in the past 12 months to prepare them for government. Unfortunately that now looks like a waste of taxpayers money.

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

Yeah, going to have to conclude you watched a different 97 election to the rest of us.

[W124Bob]

Iain328 said:

unrepentant said:

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

My guess is that most of the NuLab front bench were virtually unknowns to the majority of the public, and it was Tory ineptness that caused their wipeout, rather than Nulabs appeal.

I'm not guessing. Blair and Brown (particularly Blair) had a huge public image in 97 and a number of others like Robin Cook had very high public profiles. Mandelson orchestrated a great campaign and to suggest otherwise is to miss the point. The tories were truly awful and that undoubtedly helped Blair to secure a huge landslide but Labour were very well prepared. The contrast with this election is clear. We have a hugely unpopular and inept Labour leadership and a tory party that is not in a position to capitalise on that. Brown 12 months ago was more unpopular than Major ever was but CMD is just not capable of getting the job done.

Maybe, maybe not. This labour government is a very different animal to Major - they have no morals, no scruples & there are no depths to which they will sink. They are vicious.

The Tories have said so little with so little detail that I firmly believe it is a deliberate strategy to contain Labour in a vacuum & give them nothing specific to aim at. Any time the Tories have published anything specific the entire labour spin machine zeros in on it relentlessly and has done for years. They are past masters at shouting loudly & often until people believe them. So why help them?

The Tories are deliberately saying as little as they can till the coward pulls the trigger on the starting gun. When he does I fully expect (hope to God!) things will change in this regard. The Tories can massivly out-spend labour at this election & I expect to see a positive blizzard of stuff coming out as soon as the thing is underway.

If you look even the polls are beginning to comment on how little the Tories are saying. And still they are ahead.

We shall see - If I am right Labour is going to get ambushed and overwhelmed by this & generally murdered. If I am not and the Tories really are dithering then we are screwed. But frankly there are too many highly intelligent people at work (both visibly and behind the scenes) to let that happen. There is much more to this than meets the eye - yet - I think. In Tsun Tzu (Art of war) terms its a classic "Containment" strategy to be followed by (probably) a "Flanking manouevre" of some kind.

In boxing terms - Ali-Foreman.

It'll be interesting (or possibly highly depressing!) to watch!

Edited by Iain328 on Monday 8th March 00:51

I just hope and pray you're right!

[Bing o]

tinman0 said:

unrepentant said:

If you knew anything you would know that it is normal practice for shadow ministers to have induction courses prior to a general election, the tories have all undertaken just such "training" in the past 12 months to prepare them for government. Unfortunately that now looks like a waste of taxpayers money.

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

Yeah, going to have to conclude you watched a different 97 election to the rest of us.

Yep, it was basically BLiar and his spin-meisters that won that election - I had (and still have) very little clue as to the rest of his cabinet at the time.

I do strongly remember saying to my girlfriend at the time, that we were "truly fked". Sadly, I was right.

[Iain328]

W124Bob said:

Iain328 said:

Snipped stuff I wrote

I just hope and pray you're right!

Me too - tin hats on!

[TASS]

Iain328 said:

W124Bob said:

Iain328 said:

Snipped stuff I wrote

I just hope and pray you're right!

Me too - tin hats on!

The only fly in this optimistic ointment is, that it would require a level of ingenuity yet to be seen from CMD and a degree of secrecy that, by now, would have comprimised by being left in the back of a cab

[drivin_me_nuts]

Does anyone know the deadline by which the election date has to be set?

[Don]

drivin_me_nuts said:

Does anyone know the deadline by which the election date has to be set?

The election MUST be held by June 3rd.

So tha last day for an announcement will be 17 working days before that. May 5th or so.

[Don]

The Tory lead is back up again.

[s2art]

unrepentant said:

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

My guess is that most of the NuLab front bench were virtually unknowns to the majority of the public, and it was Tory ineptness that caused their wipeout, rather than Nulabs appeal.

I'm not guessing. Blair and Brown (particularly Blair) had a huge public image in 97 and a number of others like Robin Cook had very high public profiles. Mandelson orchestrated a great campaign and to suggest otherwise is to miss the point. The tories were truly awful and that undoubtedly helped Blair to secure a huge landslide but Labour were very well prepared. The contrast with this election is clear. We have a hugely unpopular and inept Labour leadership and a tory party that is not in a position to capitalise on that. Brown 12 months ago was more unpopular than Major ever was but CMD is just not capable of getting the job done.

You are not guessing what? The 1997 front bench was comprised mainly of a pretty motley collection of unknowns.

see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/642802...

I am reasonably politically aware but I had no idea about most of them.

[odyssey2200]

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

s2art said:

unrepentant said:

The labour frontbench in 97 were hugely well regarded by the public, as witnessed by their massive landslide victoty and the virtual wiping out of the tory party in Westminster! The current inept bunch of clowns behind CMD are not even well regarded in the tory party!

My guess is that most of the NuLab front bench were virtually unknowns to the majority of the public, and it was Tory ineptness that caused their wipeout, rather than Nulabs appeal.

I'm not guessing. Blair and Brown (particularly Blair) had a huge public image in 97 and a number of others like Robin Cook had very high public profiles. Mandelson orchestrated a great campaign and to suggest otherwise is to miss the point. The tories were truly awful and that undoubtedly helped Blair to secure a huge landslide but Labour were very well prepared. The contrast with this election is clear. We have a hugely unpopular and inept Labour leadership and a tory party that is not in a position to capitalise on that. Brown 12 months ago was more unpopular than Major ever was but CMD is just not capable of getting the job done.

You are not guessing what? The 1997 front bench was comprised mainly of a pretty motley collection of unknowns.

see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/642802...

I am reasonably politically aware but I had no idea about most of them.

They are still a mystery to me.

What ever happened to politicians we all recognised?

Now we seem to have an anonymous suit that appears out of nowhere, overnight, fks things up for a while and then moves to a different department to repeatthe process

[Bing o]

odyssey2200 said:

What ever happened to politicians we all recognised?

I think the media was very different in those days - pre-satellite, I remember Spitting Image being a very popular show at the time, and I think that helped people remember and recognise people like Geoffery Hurd et al.

The number of my colleagues (top rate tax payers in an international company) that have little or no interest in politics is truly scary, but then it's easy to avoid these days.

[Liszt]

Bing o said:

odyssey2200 said:

What ever happened to politicians we all recognised?

Geoffery Hurd

Who hell he?
Douglas Hurd or Geoffery Howe?

[Olivera]

If you don't recognise most of the politicians in that bbc news link then I suggest you stay out of political debate.

[s2art]

Olivera said:

If you don't recognise most of the politicians in that bbc news link then I suggest you stay out of political debate.

LOL! in 1997? The only people who would have recognised many of them would have been Labour nerds.