Tory lead down to 2%

[dcb]

The Hypno-Toad said:

I saw this this morning and felt physically sick. The thought of working like a dog so that these bds can give the money that I earn to chav scum, europe and themselves scares me to hell.

So don't do it then.

Pack your job in, join the millions already doing so,
sign on and put your feet up.

Sell the kids for medical experiments, forget about nice cars, join
the afternoon dog walking club and sit back and relax for as long
as you like.

I am pretty sure there are a whole host of state handouts you could
easily qualify for, too.

[turbobloke]

10 Pence Short said:

If the (fringe party) individuals concerned were any good they'd have succeeded in the mainstream parties, where they would have a chance of power. The fact they haven't suggests they haven't got what it takes.

Or, like disillusioned voters, they too became disillusioned and rather than doing what some of us will do - make a protest vote - they did what they could do which was to form or join another political party.

Unfortunately it looks to be a waste of time for both disillusioned voters and disillusioned politicians, as there's little any of us seem able to do to get a political party we could support, in terms of policies rather than not being the party in power, anywhere near to gaining office.

[10 Pence Short]

turbobloke said:

10 Pence Short said:

If the (fringe party) individuals concerned were any good they'd have succeeded in the mainstream parties, where they would have a chance of power. The fact they haven't suggests they haven't got what it takes.

Or, like disillusioned voters, they too became disillusioned and rather than doing what some of us will do - make a protest vote - they did what they could do which was to form or join another political party.

Unfortunately it looks to be a waste of time for both disillusioned voters and disillusioned politicians, as there's little any of us seem able to do to get a political party we could support, in terms of policies rather than not being the party in power, anywhere near to gaining office.

UKIP was formed to make money from the EU. Hardly the stuff of swashbuckling protests. BNP was formed by a bunch of racists who hate anything that isn't white. Hardly the stuff of swashbuckling protests.

Are the Greens any better? Monster Raving Loonies? Ricky Tomlinson?

[turbobloke]

10 Pence Short said:

turbobloke said:

10 Pence Short said:

If the (fringe party) individuals concerned were any good they'd have succeeded in the mainstream parties, where they would have a chance of power. The fact they haven't suggests they haven't got what it takes.

Or, like disillusioned voters, they too became disillusioned and rather than doing what some of us will do - make a protest vote - they did what they could do which was to form or join another political party.

Unfortunately it looks to be a waste of time for both disillusioned voters and disillusioned politicians, as there's little any of us seem able to do to get a political party we could support, in terms of policies rather than not being the party in power, anywhere near to gaining office.

UKIP was formed to make money from the EU. Hardly the stuff of swashbuckling protests. BNP was formed by a bunch of racists who hate anything that isn't white. Hardly the stuff of swashbuckling protests.

Are the Greens any better? Monster Raving Loonies? Ricky Tomlinson?

Exactly my point. The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one any alternative political party "we could support, in terms of policies rather than not being the party in power" (as per my post) ever getting near to electability is a million to one, but still they come (Green muppets, BNP changelings, UKIP cartoon characters etc).

[andy400]

thinfourth2 said:

Space aliens will invade and take over the planet

This works for me! Anything would be better than another term of Labour....

[YAD061]

On Sky just now, the President of yougov Peter Kellner said that voters didn't want to chance changing the administration as we emerge from the recession and didn't feel confident that the Tories had the experience to do it. Go figure.

[stevejh]

I am really disappointed with the current Tory leaderships green agenda and several of their other policies and, in moments of weakness, I have thought of voting for UKIP. However, it only takes one of the current shower to appear on the TV or radio and any thought of 'wasting' my vote (and let's not pretend it would be anything other than a wasted vote) and any thought of voting in any way that might see them continue in power rapidly goes out the window.

Part of me quite likes the idea of Labour winning the election and having to clear up their own mess rather than passing it on to the Tories as they clearly expect to do but then I realise that I've got to live in this country and I really want Labour out now not in five year's time.

Now is not the time to be voting on principle, now is the time to get this bunch of wasters out of power before they destroy the country any more. Principle can wait for by-elections and council elections.

[Crafty_]

There was a post on the times site, one of their bloggers, a bit biased because he's tory, but he raised the issue of complex models being applied to poll data, so we don't know where we are really.
I also read somewhere else that when the "down to 7%" polls came out the raw data showed something like a 12% lead but "corrections" (presumably by the modelling) revised this down.

Seems we will only really know when the election is held. I'm not particularly surprised that people don't like cameron, but amazed at the number of people still willing to vote labour.

[johnfm]

This is the problem with democracy. Thick people are allowed to vote with impunity! This results in politics that panders to the act of winning votes, rather than politics that improves the country.

It it amazing how people use the 'no experience' argument when considering an opposition party.

Do people think that Blair and Brown had any experience when they got in in 1997?

The Labour party back then was so lightweight it was embarrassing. And their inexperience has resulted in 13 years of naive social engineering at enormous cost.

[The Hypno-Toad]

dcb said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

I saw this this morning and felt physically sick. The thought of working like a dog so that these bds can give the money that I earn to chav scum, europe and themselves scares me to hell.

So don't do it then.

Pack your job in, join the millions already doing so,
sign on and put your feet up.

Sell the kids for medical experiments, forget about nice cars, join
the afternoon dog walking club and sit back and relax for as long
as you like.

I am pretty sure there are a whole host of state handouts you could
easily qualify for, too.

Much as I would love to do that; I'm a single, white, middle aged, mortgaged, credit card debted up (my fault), only very slightly disabled, honest man. I guess I'd get me about £50.00 a week which would be just enough to buy me a better cardboard box.

Its not really Labour or Tory (although still believe CMD is still a million times a better than Satan's Little Winky.) the real problem is politicans.
Charlie Brooker summed it up very well last year.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/0...

[YAD061]

johnfm said:

This is the problem with democracy. Thick people are allowed to vote with impunity! This results in politics that panders to the act of winning votes, rather than politics that improves the country.

It it amazing how people use the 'no experience' argument when considering an opposition party.

Do people think that Blair and Brown had any experience when they got in in 1997?

The Labour party back then was so lightweight it was embarrassing. And their inexperience has resulted in 13 years of naive social engineering at enormous cost.

You seem to be contradicting yourself john

[Rocky Balboa]

Since when did these polls become fact? If you believe that you will believe anything!

[Jasandjules]

stevejh said:

Part of me quite likes the idea of Labour winning the election and having to clear up their own mess rather than passing it on to the Tories as they clearly expect to do but then I realise that I've got to live in this country and I really want Labour out now not in five year's time.

Now is not the time to be voting on principle, now is the time to get this bunch of wasters out of power before they destroy the country any more. Principle can wait for by-elections and council elections.

^ This

The issue with Labour having to clear up their own mess is that they will simply borrow more and p**s billions more up the wall in their social experiments and leave the country permanently bankrupt.

And now is the time to save the country before it is too late, that means getting rid of Labour. The only way to do that is vote Tory and not UKIP (much as I would prefer to vote UKIP as I appreciate the idea of getting out of Europe).

[unrepentant]

Jasandjules said:

Puggit said:

I wonder if these latest 'scare' polls will cause a focusing of minds and repair the lead?

I don't know. I rather think that many once Tory voters will now put their cross next the UKIP candidate instead. Thus diminishing further the chances of the Tories getting into power.

CMD will pay the price for ignoring his base and the country will pay the price for allowing a cabal of left wing tories to outmanoevre David Davis and parachute this opportunist chameleon into the leadership.

[pacman1]

10 Pence Short said:

thinfourth2 said:

10 Pence Short said:

So you vote in the BNP or UKIP. Do you think they are going to listen to you and react any more than the mainstream parties do now? Don't be silly.

Nope
Labour will get in
But the tories might look at the fringe parties getting votes and actually come up with some decent policies to get the country great again
or more likely
Space aliens will invade and take over the planet

Labour won't get back in this time and the fringe parties are on the fringe for a reason. The only way to succeed in politics is to appeal to the majority and, looking at the loony bin UKIP or the racist BNP, they're never ever going to do that.
By all means protest vote, but don't pretend the people in the fringe parties have a chance or anywhere near the mental capability to ever actually run a real country. If the individuals concerned were any good they'd have succeeded in the mainstream parties, where they would have a chance of power. The fact they haven't suggests they haven't got what it takes.

I think you maybe right, but surely parties have to start somewhere? Perhaps if UKIP won a significant proportion of the vote in the next GE, it might attract politicians of a greater calibre, and the whole idea of change might start to benefit from it's own momentum.
I've seen nothing yet to stop me, for the first time, lodging a protest vote with them. To my thinking, the alternatives only serve to present me with a catch 22 situation.

[CDP]

andy400 said:

thinfourth2 said:

Space aliens will invade and take over the planet

This works for me! Anything would be better than another term of Labour....

We just need to persuade them that white sportswear, baseball caps and gold chains make people taste better.

This gets rid of the chavs while their salt, fat and clymidia content will quickly finish off the aliens leaving the world a better place.

[johnfm]

YAD061 said:

johnfm said:

This is the problem with democracy. Thick people are allowed to vote with impunity! This results in politics that panders to the act of winning votes, rather than politics that improves the country.

It it amazing how people use the 'no experience' argument when considering an opposition party.

Do people think that Blair and Brown had any experience when they got in in 1997?

The Labour party back then was so lightweight it was embarrassing. And their inexperience has resulted in 13 years of naive social engineering at enormous cost.

You seem to be contradicting yourself john

What I didn't add is that Blair and Brown not only had no experience of governing a country, but had no experience of running anything else. Bunch of professional politicians without a clue of how big business works.

I sense that the Tories at least know how to match income with expenditure. They're not perfect, but a better bet than the red team.

[Mr E]

What sort of odds are the bookies offering at the moment?

[stevejh]

pacman1 said:

10 Pence Short said:

thinfourth2 said:

10 Pence Short said:

So you vote in the BNP or UKIP. Do you think they are going to listen to you and react any more than the mainstream parties do now? Don't be silly.

Nope
Labour will get in
But the tories might look at the fringe parties getting votes and actually come up with some decent policies to get the country great again
or more likely
Space aliens will invade and take over the planet

Labour won't get back in this time and the fringe parties are on the fringe for a reason. The only way to succeed in politics is to appeal to the majority and, looking at the loony bin UKIP or the racist BNP, they're never ever going to do that.
By all means protest vote, but don't pretend the people in the fringe parties have a chance or anywhere near the mental capability to ever actually run a real country. If the individuals concerned were any good they'd have succeeded in the mainstream parties, where they would have a chance of power. The fact they haven't suggests they haven't got what it takes.

I think you maybe right, but surely parties have to start somewhere? Perhaps if UKIP won a significant proportion of the vote in the next GE, it might attract politicians of a greater calibre, and the whole idea of change might start to benefit from it's own momentum.
I've seen nothing yet to stop me, for the first time, lodging a protest vote with them. To my thinking, the alternatives only serve to present me with a catch 22 situation.

Sorry but the only protest vote that's worth making at the moment is the protest vote that gets Labour out. The majority of Labour voters won't be making protest votes they'll either vote for Labour in order continue feathering their own nests or because they've always voted Labour or, at best, they won't vote at all. We have to make our votes count which IMO means voting Conservative.

[turbobloke]

Crafty_ said:

There was a post on the times site, one of their bloggers, a bit biased because he's tory, but he raised the issue of complex models being applied to poll data...

Ah ha those wonderful computer models i.e. yet more politicised GIGO.