Jon Venables back in prison

[Dave_ST220]

Parrot of Doom said:

Oh look, the army. Lets also bring whales into the discussion, and while we're at it, cardboard boxes.

Or even McDonalds and their scolding hot tea in not fit for purpose cups eh? Tit.

Edited by Dave_ST220 on Friday 5th March 08:19

[Bing o]

Dan_1981 said:

I think thats the Milgram experiment.

Yep - worth also looking at Zimbardo's Prison Experiment http://www.prisonexp.org/

[tinman0]

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Dave_ST220 said:

A 10 year old, no matter what the upbringing, knows what they did was serverly wrong. I have a daughter about the same age as James, how anyone, no matter what age, could do what those evil bds did is beyond me.

Of course they knew it was wrong.

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.


I'm amazed at how often this simple but important fact needs to be repeated.

I know what you are tyring to convey, however no upbringing can over-ride the human instincts with regards to not torturing a small child.

What they did was more evil and extreme than any 'ubringing' or 'social issues' could ever begin to justify/explain.

Prove it.

Nothing to prove. It's a mixture of the breakup of the family, the use of drugs/excess alcohol by the underclass, benefits culture, and just generally parents who should have been sterilized years ago.

Still think the welfare state is a large cause of these problems.

[Parrot of Doom]

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Dave_ST220 said:

A 10 year old, no matter what the upbringing, knows what they did was serverly wrong. I have a daughter about the same age as James, how anyone, no matter what age, could do what those evil bds did is beyond me.

Of course they knew it was wrong.

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.


I'm amazed at how often this simple but important fact needs to be repeated.

I know what you are tyring to convey, however no upbringing can over-ride the human instincts with regards to not torturing a small child.

What they did was more evil and extreme than any 'ubringing' or 'social issues' could ever begin to justify/explain.

Prove it.

Disprove it.

I'm not the one making an unfounded assertion.

:cough:

parrot of doom said:

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.

Prove it.

If you haven't already educated yourself on their upbringings, I suggest you do so now, before more bks spew from your mouth.

[Parrot of Doom]

Dave_ST220 said:

Or even McDonalds and their scolding hot tea in not fit for purpose cups eh? Tit.

Wow, I'm convinced. By the way, how do you manage to make the cheeks of your arse look so convincingly like a human mouth?

[monthefish]

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

I'm not the one making an unfounded assertion.

:cough:

parrot of doom said:

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.

Prove it.

If you haven't already educated yourself on their upbringings, I suggest you do so now, before more bks spew from your mouth.

No need to get techy just because you're losing the debate.

I am not disputing the facts/details of their upbringing - I am asking you to (firstly regain your composure, and to then) prove that

parrot of doom said:

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.

Boldy-bit to help you understand what is being requested here.

[bonsai]

FFS - yes their childhood was st, noone is denying that.

But Thompson has 6 siblings! None of them murdered anyone. The sad fact is that there's probably thousands of children up and down the country who had, and others that continue to have, worse upbringings and they manage not to torture and kill people.

[Parrot of Doom]

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

I'm not the one making an unfounded assertion.

:cough:

parrot of doom said:

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.

Prove it.

If you haven't already educated yourself on their upbringings, I suggest you do so now, before more bks spew from your mouth.

No need to get techy just because you're losing the debate.

I am not disputing the facts/details of their upbringing - I am asking you to (firstly regain your composure, and to then) prove that

parrot of doom said:

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.

Boldy-bit to help you understand what is being requested here.

I'm not at all techy, and I don't consider that I'm losing anything. I've offered enough evidence to support my assertion, that you don't see it as enough for proof isn't something I'm particularly bothered about rectifying.

Interesting though (well, in a "bored as fk way so let's see what raises a mild smile") that you choose to equate rude words with aggression. fking weak argument.

[Parrot of Doom]

bonsai said:

FFS - yes their childhood was st, noone is denying that.

But Thompson has 6 siblings! None of them murdered anyone. The sad fact is that there's probably thousands of children up and down the country who had, and others that continue to have, worse upbringings and they manage not to torture and kill people.

Really, I seem to recall that there are quite a lot of mass-murderers and murders in this country, and indeed across the world.

[Dave_ST220]

bonsai said:

FFS - yes their childhood was st, noone is denying that.

But Thompson has 6 siblings! None of them murdered anyone. The sad fact is that there's probably thousands of children up and down the country who had, and others that continue to have, worse upbringings and they manage not to torture and kill people.

This is the bit he seems to have a problem with.

[Halb]

FarleyRusk said:

monthefish said:

ali_kat said:

Excellent post lost at the bottom of page 4. I've put some spaces in to encourage others to read it...

Agreed.

+1 Very articulate.

I concur.

bonsai said:

But Thompson has 6 siblings! None of them murdered anyone. The sad fact is that there's probably thousands of children up and down the country who had, and others that continue to have, worse upbringings and they manage not to torture and kill people.

Quite. These two had it in them to do these acts. Their upbringing may have helped them out, but they didn't create them.

freecar said:

...I'm just a civilised human being, not someone pretending to be but forgetting all civilisation when it suits.

'Civilised is arbitrary. I would say destroying an internecine cancer in oneself/society is civilised.

[Wings]

This is worth a read;

http://thefearfactoryblog.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_...

[drivin_me_nuts]

Dave_ST220 said:

bonsai said:

FFS - yes their childhood was st, noone is denying that.

But Thompson has 6 siblings! None of them murdered anyone. The sad fact is that there's probably thousands of children up and down the country who had, and others that continue to have, worse upbringings and they manage not to torture and kill people.

This is the bit he seems to have a problem with.

Actually that means bugger all. Every single one of us responds differently. Someone kills your child, you might want to kill them, or you might not. Some people, avtually a great many grieve and then genuinely forgive. Others seek revenge. Do You really think that all seven of them behaved in the same way? that they all have the same responses, moods, emotions, thoughts, coping mechanisms as eachother?

What they did was terrible beyond measure of what you or I call 'normal'. But for them it was an acceptable behaviour path. Why that is the case is a much more complex answer than the fact their siblings did not kill. As unpalatable as it may seem to many to accept, social class, education, environment, parental contribution and control all have a large part to play in their development, or lack of it.

[micky g]

Dave_ST220 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

micky g said:

Parrot of Doom said:

monthefish said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Dave_ST220 said:

A 10 year old, no matter what the upbringing, knows what they did was serverly wrong. I have a daughter about the same age as James, how anyone, no matter what age, could do what those evil bds did is beyond me.

Of course they knew it was wrong.

They simply didn't care, and that is entirely as a result of their horrific upbringing.


I'm amazed at how often this simple but important fact needs to be repeated.

I know what you are tyring to convey, however no upbringing can over-ride the human instincts with regards to not torturing a small child.

What they did was more evil and extreme than any 'ubringing' or 'social issues' could ever begin to justify/explain.

Prove it.

Why do you think the army recruit at the earliest age possible?

The atrocities carried out in the name of war?

'...overide the human instincts...'?

The mind can be a fragile thing, particularly the mind of a child.

Oh look, the army. Lets also bring whales into the discussion, and while we're at it, cardboard boxes.

Or even McDonalds and their scolding hot tea in not fit for purpose cups eh? Tit.

Perhaps I was too vague for some of the simpler thinking folk on here. The relevance of the army is that they train young minds to kill. Unfortunately, you don't have to go back far in history to see countless women and children slaughtered in the name of war.

I struggle to comprehend how anyone is capable of such atrocities, but capable they are, and they do it in the belief that they are right.

It's a fair analogy and remember, when you call me a tit, it's you that drives the Mondeo

Edited by micky g on Thursday 4th March 23:12

[Jasandjules]

drivin_me_nuts said:

What they did was terrible beyond measure of what you or I call 'normal'. But for them it was an acceptable behaviour path.

No, it was not acceptable to them, they were aware that is was a major problem and they took steps to hide their acts.

[bonsai]

The mirror is alleging he's back in clink because:

James Bulger’s killer Jon Venables transformed into ‘cokehead with raging temper’ after jail release

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/03/0...

mirror said:

Child killer Jon Venables’ life has descended into one of drug abuse and brushes with the law since he left jail nine years ago.

The 27-year-old began snorting cocaine and popping ecstasy pills while throwing himself into his local night club scene.

He is also said to have a raging temper that has landed him in hot water with the police – and ended with him back behind bars for breaching parole conditions set when he was freed in 2001.

Venables (above left), who murdered toddler James Bulger in 1993 with fellow thug Robert Thompson, was hauled back to prison after a bust-up at work.

A source last night lifted the lid on his secret life of drug addiction.

It was revealed that until last Christmas, Venables was buying one gram of cocaine a week to feed his habit.

He is also a big music fan who has attended The V Festival, the Leeds Festival and Glastonbury.

His drug abuse led to a major brush with police.

Snorting cocaine with a friend down a dirty alley outside a nightclub in December 2008, Venables was stunned to see plain-clothed police officers running towards him.

Not as severe as some of us thought then. If true then maybe he will be out sooner rather than later?

[elster]

Wow!

A 1g a week habit?!!!

That's not even a hobby, let alone a habit.

[nonegreen]

Wings said:

This is worth a read;

http://thefearfactoryblog.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_...

Yes very interesting but again it focuses on the criminals as victims. It is ludicrous to put Thompson and Venebles in the same category as a child whose drunken parents brought people home to have sex with her. One is clearly a victim and in need of care, the others are criminals and we have a right not to be exposed to these monsters. This should be the number one prioroty of the criminal justice system. The artical is typical of the Guardian, written by someone with no knowlege other than a bit of anecdotal slant. We have a similar misunderstanding with the charity Brake. Its based on one womans perception of a non existant problem. IE Mary Williams has had a relative killed by a motorist. Her solution? To wreck the UK economy with her silly ideas on speed limits. Its a totally different sphere, but it illustrates well the ability we have to get it all oh so very wrong at all levels. No one is suggesting we demonise children, but is it right to go to the nth degree to rehabilitate offenders of such satanic crimes? Surely there is a line somewhere?

[MikeyT]

bonsai said:

The mirror is alleging he's back in clink because:

James Bulger’s killer Jon Venables transformed into ‘cokehead with raging temper’ after jail release

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/03/0...

mirror said:

Child killer Jon Venables’ life has descended into one of drug abuse and brushes with the law since he left jail nine years ago.

The 27-year-old began snorting cocaine and popping ecstasy pills while throwing himself into his local night club scene.

He is also said to have a raging temper that has landed him in hot water with the police – and ended with him back behind bars for breaching parole conditions set when he was freed in 2001.

Venables (above left), who murdered toddler James Bulger in 1993 with fellow thug Robert Thompson, was hauled back to prison after a bust-up at work.

A source last night lifted the lid on his secret life of drug addiction.

It was revealed that until last Christmas, Venables was buying one gram of cocaine a week to feed his habit.

He is also a big music fan who has attended The V Festival, the Leeds Festival and Glastonbury.

His drug abuse led to a major brush with police.

Snorting cocaine with a friend down a dirty alley outside a nightclub in December 2008, Venables was stunned to see plain-clothed police officers running towards him.

Not as severe as some of us thought then. If true then maybe he will be out sooner rather than later?

If he had had brushes with the law over the last nine years surely he would have been inside again already?

[FarleyRusk]

Clearly the powers that be decided that he has had enough hardship and trauma in his life and deserved to be treated leniently. The poor darling!