Jon Venables back in prison
Discussion
10 Pence Short said:
bonsai said:
Of course any 10 year old understands it's wrong to drop a toddler on his head, beat him with an iron bar, shove batteries up his arse and then lie his dieing body on a railway track.
It is literally unfathomable how anyone can think otherwise, regardless of the offenders' upbringings which, whilst far from ideal, are not nearly as feral as would be neccessary for there to be no understanding of the heinousness of their crime.
You're entitled to your opinion. You have to ask why the law disagrees with you, though.It is literally unfathomable how anyone can think otherwise, regardless of the offenders' upbringings which, whilst far from ideal, are not nearly as feral as would be neccessary for there to be no understanding of the heinousness of their crime.
Jasandjules said:
10 Pence Short said:
You're entitled to your opinion. You have to ask why the law disagrees with you, though.
I believe criminal consent is 10 years old is it not?I'll probably bow out of the conversation at this point, as the point I am trying to make, that the things people do as children shouldn't be judged in the same way as those they do as an adult, will inevitably be lost in the presumption that I'm defending what these two boys did- which I certainly am not.
If, as looks likely, Venables is behind bars for committing serial breaches, then that's completely his own doing and he should have no sympathy.
I can't quite make up my mind about this.
On one hand, I can see where 10PS is coming from, and agree to an extent that an adult shouldn't be judged for something he or she did as a 10 year old child.
However, by the same token, at ten years old, I'm fairly sure most of us reading this thread would have known that killing & torturing a baby is a bad thing to do.
On one hand, I can see where 10PS is coming from, and agree to an extent that an adult shouldn't be judged for something he or she did as a 10 year old child.
However, by the same token, at ten years old, I'm fairly sure most of us reading this thread would have known that killing & torturing a baby is a bad thing to do.
bonsai said:
Of course any 10 year old understands it's wrong to drop a toddler on his head, beat him with an iron bar, shove batteries up his arse and then lie his dieing body on a railway track.
It is literally unfathomable how anyone can think otherwise, regardless of the offenders' upbringings which, whilst far from ideal, are not nearly as feral as would be neccessary for there to be no understanding of the heinousness of their crime.
Just for clarity, the batteries business was never actually proved.It is literally unfathomable how anyone can think otherwise, regardless of the offenders' upbringings which, whilst far from ideal, are not nearly as feral as would be neccessary for there to be no understanding of the heinousness of their crime.
I doubt it would take too much to get either one of them back behind bars, as their licence conditions would be pretty strict. How long they will stay there is anyone's guess as we have very little info to go on as to why he has been locked up.
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
y2blade said:
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
y2blade said:
I think what he means is that if two adults had done this to another adult then no it wouldn't have been as notorious
But it is to a degree. You have those three who tortured the poor invalid and then killed him. That got a lot of air-time around here. Of course, humanity being what it is, we abhor such things happening to those too weak to defend themselves, such as children.
esselte said:
y2blade said:
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
anything that ends with children getting harmed really does deserve a proper punishment
y2blade said:
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
Can you, or anyone else here, name these people that did this, without resorting to google searches etc?
Can you even name the victims?
Edit to add, not haveing a 'go' at anyone, and for the record, I cant name them either.
Edited by Tony*T3 on Wednesday 3rd March 13:45
Tony*T3 said:
y2blade said:
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
Can you, or anyone else here, name these people that did this, without resorting to google searches etc?
Can you even name the victims?
Tracy Connolly/Baby P
Angela Gordon/Khyra Ishaq
spring to mind
esselte said:
Tony*T3 said:
y2blade said:
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
Can you, or anyone else here, name these people that did this, without resorting to google searches etc?
Can you even name the victims?
Tracy Connolly/Baby P
Angela Gordon/Khyra Ishaq
spring to mind
Well done. Bet you're in a minority though. Everyone knows who killed Jamie Bulger. There are dozens of children murdered every year, bet even you cant name many of the people responsible? Because some murderers become 'celebrity criminals' due to press coverage, whilst the majority dont.
Edited by Tony*T3 on Wednesday 3rd March 13:59
Tony*T3 said:
esselte said:
Tony*T3 said:
y2blade said:
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
Can you, or anyone else here, name these people that did this, without resorting to google searches etc?
Can you even name the victims?
Tracy Connolly/Baby P
Angela Gordon/Khyra Ishaq
spring to mind
without googling
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:55
Tony*T3 said:
esselte said:
Tony*T3 said:
y2blade said:
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
Can you, or anyone else here, name these people that did this, without resorting to google searches etc?
Can you even name the victims?
Tracy Connolly/Baby P
Angela Gordon/Khyra Ishaq
spring to mind
added this to earlier reply:
Well done. Bet you're in a minority though. Everyone knows who killed Jamie Bulger. There are dozens of children murdered every year, bet even you cant name many of the people responsible? Because some murderers become 'celebrity criminals' due to press coverage, whilst the majority dont.
Well done. Bet you're in a minority though. Everyone knows who killed Jamie Bulger. There are dozens of children murdered every year, bet even you cant name many of the people responsible? Because some murderers become 'celebrity criminals' due to press coverage, whilst the majority dont.
10 Pence Short said:
esselte said:
10 Pence Short said:
I would hate for all the people I know to judge my actions as a 10 year old through the eyes of an adult. Must be great being so perfect.
Don't you think they knew they were doing wrong TPS?Either way, to judge a 27 year old man on the actions of a 10 year old boy seems unrealistic and far too easy a trap to fall into, in my opinion. If we stop believing people can be changed by age, notwithstanding the justice system, we stop believing in human nature and the justice system altogether. No doubt there'll be respondants furiously tapping on their keyboards as they read this saying precisely that. It's an easy opinion to have but a harder one to justify.
Whatever reason for his recall to prison on this occasion, it at least shows the 'system' is doing what it should.
I would suggests some crimes indicate the person is broken inside in a way that means they will never be fixed. For me I'd be happy never to let them out of jail.
But then I was quite a normal 10 year old who liked to watch deputy Dawg on TV rather than hacking apart 2 year olds.
esselte said:
Tony*T3 said:
y2blade said:
esselte said:
Rollcage said:
Tony*T3 said:
Its a funny society we live in. There are many adults that have done just as bad crimes, that have been released, and that dont get any of this notoriety and treatment for their crimes or persecution. You wouldnt know if one of your neighbors was a child murderer yet we all have our opinions on these few 'celebrity criminals'.
Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
Anything to do with kids (ie Jamie) is a very emotional business, and will likely cloud many people's objectivity.Maxine Carr was for instance not a murderer. Yet many profess that they'd want to see her dead. Yet there are people that you pass on the street that are likely to have done far far worse, yet dont have this 'celebrity criminal' status.
As you say, if this crime had happened with adults, it would not be anywhere near as notorious. Its very notoriety makes it a very tricky case to deal with. I think the original sentence was too short, but also that they need not necessarily spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I think there are only about a dozen true "Lifers" in the UK prison system today?
Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 3rd March 13:34
Can you, or anyone else here, name these people that did this, without resorting to google searches etc?
Can you even name the victims?
Tracy Connolly/Baby P
Angela Gordon/Khyra Ishaq
spring to mind
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