Airline bailout
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8628878.stm
[i] British commercial pilots' union Balpa says the industry will need the same of kind of government rescue as the banks following the eruption, with a number of airlines "staring bankruptcy in the face".
Tim Jeans, managing director of the airline Monarch, said that "clearly you cannot sell a ticket for somebody from say Alicante to London for £60 and pick up a £2000 bill". [/i]
Here we go again... Don't they have insurance for that kind of event?
This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
[i] British commercial pilots' union Balpa says the industry will need the same of kind of government rescue as the banks following the eruption, with a number of airlines "staring bankruptcy in the face".
Tim Jeans, managing director of the airline Monarch, said that "clearly you cannot sell a ticket for somebody from say Alicante to London for £60 and pick up a £2000 bill". [/i]
Here we go again... Don't they have insurance for that kind of event?
This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
isee said:
Here we go again... Don't they have insurance for that kind of event?
This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
Too right! Let them go bust! They should be prepared for government organisations stopping them earning any money for weeks when they think it's safe to go flying.This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
Scrounging b
ds!el stovey said:
isee said:
Here we go again... Don't they have insurance for that kind of event?
This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
Too right! Let them go bust! They should be prepared for government organisations stopping them earning any money for weeks when they think it's safe to go flying.This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
Scrounging b
ds!Nobody has asked me if I am prepared for a government organisation to increase the road tax and the fuel duty when i think they get plenty enough and when the roads are covered with wheel bursting potholes.
I would favour a bailout in the form of offering the best military + civilian engineering we have available to solve this issue at a technical level. Whether that means modifications to engines so they can withstand the volcanic ash, or something similar that gets airlines moving again. I'm sure (given enough incentive) the collective minds of the worlds aviation industry can solve this.
isee said:
el stovey said:
isee said:
Here we go again... Don't they have insurance for that kind of event?
This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
Too right! Let them go bust! They should be prepared for government organisations stopping them earning any money for weeks when they think it's safe to go flying.This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
Scrounging b
ds!Nobody has asked me if I am prepared for a government organisation to increase the road tax and the fuel duty when i think they get plenty enough and when the roads are covered with wheel bursting potholes.
His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
DSM2 said:
Yes it was meant to be ironic, i think.
His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
1) Government organisation unnecessarily stops your business making any money for long enough to make you go bankrupt.His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
2) You ask the government for support.
3) Internet 'experts' tell you it's a free market and your business should be left to fail through absolutely no fault of your own.
DSM2 said:
isee said:
el stovey said:
isee said:
Here we go again... Don't they have insurance for that kind of event?
This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
Too right! Let them go bust! They should be prepared for government organisations stopping them earning any money for weeks when they think it's safe to go flying.This bailout mentality needs to end and soon!
Scrounging b
ds!Nobody has asked me if I am prepared for a government organisation to increase the road tax and the fuel duty when i think they get plenty enough and when the roads are covered with wheel bursting potholes.
His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
t like that afterall they clearly know how beneficial that is since they keep trying to sell us travel insurance 
Edited by isee on Monday 19th April 11:35
el stovey said:
DSM2 said:
Yes it was meant to be ironic, i think.
His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
1) Government organisation unnecessarily stops your business making any money for long enough to make you go bankrupt.His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
2) You ask the government for support.
3) Internet 'experts' tell you it's a free market and your business should be left to fail through absolutely no fault of your own.
I for one would not like to have my life put at risk so that someone's company may continue to trade.
If the company wants to run the gauntlet, this puts the responsibility on people who are not directly experienced in the mechanics of jet engines being wapped with sharp, hard, glass!
That leaves it up to me to make the decision to go or not. I look at various pics of abraded turbines and dust concentration projections and these nutters are going to "go for it". By all means, if you can convince the pilot to "go for it" get some freight up there and have a look at the jet engines afterwards. Perhaps do this a few times to get rid of probabilities of a clean-run and then consider flying humans.
If something f
ks up, there will be hell to pay. Tangent Police said:
el stovey said:
DSM2 said:
Yes it was meant to be ironic, i think.
His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
1) Government organisation unnecessarily stops your business making any money for long enough to make you go bankrupt.His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
2) You ask the government for support.
3) Internet 'experts' tell you it's a free market and your business should be left to fail through absolutely no fault of your own.
I for one would not like to have my life put at risk so that someone's company may continue to trade.
If the company wants to run the gauntlet, this puts the responsibility on people who are not directly experienced in the mechanics of jet engines being wapped with sharp, hard, glass!
That leaves it up to me to make the decision to go or not. I look at various pics of abraded turbines and dust concentration projections and these nutters are going to "go for it". By all means, if you can convince the pilot to "go for it" get some freight up there and have a look at the jet engines afterwards. Perhaps do this a few times to get rid of probabilities of a clean-run and then consider flying humans.
If something f
ks up, there will be hell to pay. 
Insurance will 'Act of God' on it.. just like they already have done for people flights that have been cancelled etc.
But bks to this.. Its been a few days and they are moaning about going bust.. That just stupid, not a very robust business plan they live off is it.
But b
ks to this.. Its been a few days and they are moaning about going bust.. That just stupid, not a very robust business plan they live off is it.Yeast Lord said:
Seriously I wish these stupid people that vote for labour and the libdemons would wake the fk up. Us working people need to march on Downing Street to stop them once and for all making decisions that no one in their right mind would.
I cannot see the Tories doing the same, I think its a EU pressure thing.k up. Us working people need to march on Downing Street to stop them once and for all making decisions that no one in their right mind would.Edited by joe_90 on Monday 19th April 11:51
Tangent Police said:
el stovey said:
DSM2 said:
Yes it was meant to be ironic, i think.
His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
1) Government organisation unnecessarily stops your business making any money for long enough to make you go bankrupt.His point is that many airlines think it is safe to fly, and recent tests back them up.
A government department is stopping them flying, thereby directly hitting them financially.
Personally I would not like a bail out, but they do have a point.
2) You ask the government for support.
3) Internet 'experts' tell you it's a free market and your business should be left to fail through absolutely no fault of your own.
I for one would not like to have my life put at risk so that someone's company may continue to trade.
If the company wants to run the gauntlet, this puts the responsibility on people who are not directly experienced in the mechanics of jet engines being wapped with sharp, hard, glass!
That leaves it up to me to make the decision to go or not. I look at various pics of abraded turbines and dust concentration projections and these nutters are going to "go for it". By all means, if you can convince the pilot to "go for it" get some freight up there and have a look at the jet engines afterwards. Perhaps do this a few times to get rid of probabilities of a clean-run and then consider flying humans.
If something f
ks up, there will be hell to pay. Airlines operate around erupting volcanoes all the time. Recently Soufriere has been erupting in Monrserrat and the New York/Piarco controlled airspace remained open. The rest of the world uses a simple long standing pragmatic approach to these events which involves the authority publishing where the cloud is and letting the operator decide how to deal with it.
The only reason the airspace in Europe is closed is because of the different way we in Europe interpret the rules from ICAO.
7thCircleAcolyte said:
If a single penny of my hard earned taxes goes to fund a bailout of the communist trash at BA then I'll reduce my taxes paid on an on-going basis for the lifetime of the government in power when the bailout occurs.
BA have a nice £4 billion cash pool, and emergency loan agreements with banks in place that were set up to get them through the cabin crew strikes - they are in one of the strongest positions.AlfaFoxtrot said:
7thCircleAcolyte said:
If a single penny of my hard earned taxes goes to fund a bailout of the communist trash at BA then I'll reduce my taxes paid on an on-going basis for the lifetime of the government in power when the bailout occurs.
BA have a nice £4 billion cash pool, and emergency loan agreements with banks in place that were set up to get them through the cabin crew strikes - they are in one of the strongest positions.joe_90 said:
Insurance will 'Act of God' on it.. just like they already have done for people flights that have been cancelled etc.
Yep they are classing it as force majeure. Not many insurance companies, will be paying out. rubbish imo as this is what we purchase travel ins for. I can see a hell of a lot of airlines and tour operators going bust after this 
el stovey said:
This isn't the first volcano to erupt.
Airlines operate around erupting volcanoes all the time. Recently Soufriere has been erupting in Monrserrat and the New York/Piarco controlled airspace remained open. The rest of the world uses a simple long standing pragmatic approach to these events which involves the authority publishing where the cloud is and letting the operator decide how to deal with it.
The only reason the airspace in Europe is closed is because of the different way we in Europe interpret the rules from ICAO.
I agree. However, the airstreams around here are a tad more complex and the particular set of circumstances have dictated a spread of a certain sort of ash (glassy) over a large area. There are also concentrations of this matter here and there. What holds good for one eruption does not for another. Airlines operate around erupting volcanoes all the time. Recently Soufriere has been erupting in Monrserrat and the New York/Piarco controlled airspace remained open. The rest of the world uses a simple long standing pragmatic approach to these events which involves the authority publishing where the cloud is and letting the operator decide how to deal with it.
The only reason the airspace in Europe is closed is because of the different way we in Europe interpret the rules from ICAO.
Rather than cocking around with dogma, what they need to do is get some hard data on what these concentrations mean to engines. The current data seems to be mixed "our engines are fine" vs "our engines are f
ked". They can then get cracking. Since the data is contradictory at the moment, they need to do some more tests and shag up/not shag up some more engines. This puts planes at risk and "someone else should do it". Until then, we'll have to run the gauntlet.
This isn't as simple as avoiding the plume. (as you know)
I'm due out later this week and I'd rather not be a part of some sketchy fricking experiment being done at risk to the public because a bunch of shareholders are s
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