Has Cameron blown it?
Discussion
968 said:
BJG1 said:
Think the Tories need William Hague at the helm again. he'd have run rings around the other two in the telivised debates, plus he's a better all-round leader imo, would give the Tories more focus and purpose.
He's been there before and he was crap. The Tories were thrashed in an election he contested. It's not an option.It's academic though; he won't get the job. And it would be political suicide to change leaders this close to an election.
I think the Conservative party have a real problem, and it isn't Cameron in particular. It is that they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. On some of the things mentioned in this thread for example - if they come out strongly against immigration then they will be battered by the liberal elite media with it. It won't matter whether they are good intentioned, or even right, they will just be hounded continuously.
An example was the Chris Grayling thing the other day. His comments were instantly seized upon as being evidence of the 'evil tories', when in fact they were nothing of the sort. Unfortunately, the general populace are too stupid to realise this and are led by what they are fed in words of one syllable. Similar situations could easily arise over Europe, crime, and any number of other things.
For some reason, there is a real lack of desire on the part of the media to put the boot in to the other parties to the same extent, although there are a few who will do it (Andrew Neil for example), I see far more interviews of Labour and Liberal politicians (especially Cable) giving them an easy ride than I do of the Conservatives.
An example was the Chris Grayling thing the other day. His comments were instantly seized upon as being evidence of the 'evil tories', when in fact they were nothing of the sort. Unfortunately, the general populace are too stupid to realise this and are led by what they are fed in words of one syllable. Similar situations could easily arise over Europe, crime, and any number of other things.
For some reason, there is a real lack of desire on the part of the media to put the boot in to the other parties to the same extent, although there are a few who will do it (Andrew Neil for example), I see far more interviews of Labour and Liberal politicians (especially Cable) giving them an easy ride than I do of the Conservatives.
d every time I read it in a political context.tank slapper said:
I think the Conservative party have a real problem, and it isn't Cameron in particular. It is that they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. On some of the things mentioned in this thread for example - if they come out strongly against immigration then they will be battered by the liberal elite media with it. It won't matter whether they are good intentioned, or even right, they will just be hounded continuously.
An example was the Chris Grayling thing the other day. His comments were instantly seized upon as being evidence of the 'evil tories', when in fact they were nothing of the sort. Unfortunately, the general populace are too stupid to realise this and are led by what they are fed in words of one syllable. Similar situations could easily arise over Europe, crime, and any number of other things.
For some reason, there is a real lack of desire on the part of the media to put the boot in to the other parties to the same extent, although there are a few who will do it (Andrew Neil for example), I see far more interviews of Labour and Liberal politicians (especially Cable) giving them an easy ride than I do of the Conservatives.
Consensus politics has killed values and the essence of a party ethos.An example was the Chris Grayling thing the other day. His comments were instantly seized upon as being evidence of the 'evil tories', when in fact they were nothing of the sort. Unfortunately, the general populace are too stupid to realise this and are led by what they are fed in words of one syllable. Similar situations could easily arise over Europe, crime, and any number of other things.
For some reason, there is a real lack of desire on the part of the media to put the boot in to the other parties to the same extent, although there are a few who will do it (Andrew Neil for example), I see far more interviews of Labour and Liberal politicians (especially Cable) giving them an easy ride than I do of the Conservatives.
years ago, you'd look at the party 'promises' (yeah, I know) and if you found a party with whom you agreed with more than five out of ten of their policies, they got your vote. Now, the parties are simple fighting for a consensus position where they upset no-one.
They need to get over it and start selling a culture and belief. Give the electorate something meaty to chew on, something to debate and a real choice in what they are voting for.
Strangely Brown said:
I wonder how much different things would be had they elected David Davis as leader instead of Cameron. IMO, he was the Betamax to Cameron's VHS: So much better, but didn't get the popular following.
I'd have prefered him to CMD but he has a touch of the swivel eyed loony about him. Hague is the sensible option and was in 2005. To those who point to his past leadership "failures" I just say phooeey. His failure was in accepting the job at a time when he wasn't ready and the chalice was dripping with poison. But who refuses? Even if the Tories had appointed Mother Theresa or Mandela in 97 they would have lost in 01. If Hague were leader now the Tories would be walking in because he is a politician of conviction rather than an opportunist chameleon like CMD.
It's interesting watching different people's reaction to Cameron. I don't think he lacks charisma really, but he is definitely better when he is thinking on his feet than when he is reading a prepared speech. He should probably do more like this than the artificial non-debate that was on the other day. I can't imagine Brown doing anything close to that without filling the room with lackeys like Blair used to.
tank slapper said:
I think the Conservative party have a real problem, and it isn't Cameron in particular. It is that they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. On some of the things mentioned in this thread for example - if they come out strongly against immigration then they will be battered by the liberal elite media with it. It won't matter whether they are good intentioned, or even right, they will just be hounded continuously.
.
.
In areas like immigration and the EU the Conservatives still have true blue policies, and ones very different to Labour. But to campaign on these topics will be to attract the hammering they received from the media in the 2005 campaign and all the sheep will think the Conservatives have 'lurched to the right' or are 'extreme' when what they are propsing is simple common sense.
Tangent Police said:
I would like someone on an advert break in Corrie/X Factor to point out to the idiots that the 3 parties are offering the same thing.
We need to get away from Social Undemocracy.
Not just for libertarian personal wishing, but for economic salvation.
A good start would be to get rid of the whip and allow politicians of all parties to vote on principle.We need to get away from Social Undemocracy.
Not just for libertarian personal wishing, but for economic salvation.
Tangent Police said:
Whoever you vote for:-
They are all socialists to various degrees.
They seek regulation and to extend their remit.
They are pro the expensive EU project.
The will not make the cuts required to sort the country out.
The IMF are coming. It's only a matter of when.
Really, your vote is merely something which gives you a little bit of feeling like you actually make a difference, that you actually contribute to the selection and direction of a leader.
The reality is European Totalitarian Socialism. You vote for any of them and this is what you'll get. You can listen to their vote grabbing crap like "Socialist Workers Party oppose the incinerator at the end of my street" or "They will cut left handed lesbians tax".
The bottom line with this fricking song and dance is the people who get in are those most likely to do what it takes to get the country back on it's feet and functioning. Make the adjustments to regulation and public spending in order to facilitate growth.
None of them are going to do it, so we might as well go and weed the garden until the IMF arrive.
They are all social democrats and you get to choose between the set of pricks who get to feather their nests the most.
We need a "Guy Fawkes" protest party.
Here here. UKIP is hardly Xenophobic as someone else wrote they seem to be the only party prepared to discuss quite how shafted we have been by the Lisbon Treaty. Did anyone see the guilty look on all the major representatives on question time recently as UKIP man Farage set to them about EU expansion and the real reason immigration is a problem. They are all socialists to various degrees.
They seek regulation and to extend their remit.
They are pro the expensive EU project.
The will not make the cuts required to sort the country out.
The IMF are coming. It's only a matter of when.
Really, your vote is merely something which gives you a little bit of feeling like you actually make a difference, that you actually contribute to the selection and direction of a leader.
The reality is European Totalitarian Socialism. You vote for any of them and this is what you'll get. You can listen to their vote grabbing crap like "Socialist Workers Party oppose the incinerator at the end of my street" or "They will cut left handed lesbians tax".
The bottom line with this fricking song and dance is the people who get in are those most likely to do what it takes to get the country back on it's feet and functioning. Make the adjustments to regulation and public spending in order to facilitate growth.
None of them are going to do it, so we might as well go and weed the garden until the IMF arrive.
They are all social democrats and you get to choose between the set of pricks who get to feather their nests the most.
We need a "Guy Fawkes" protest party.
If only the Tories could pull together and be bold and start talking about the EU and be bold enough to hold a referendum. Maybe they will , maybe it's the trump card...
grumbledoak said:
It won't happen. These people are effectively being paid not to kick off. Any attempt to reduce their 'pay' will be spun in the MSM and stoked behind the scenes.
This.The unemployed/unemployable are now a sizeable influential group. Any move to substantially cut their benefits would lead to serious civil unrest IMHO, what would they have to lose?
Wadeski said:
They might as well just start copy-pasting the previous manifesto - fine if they want to compete with UKIP, but do they think benefits scroungers are any more of an issue with the middle ground than under hague or howard?
Quite obviously, a future fair for all doesn't include those who pay their own way and contribute to society..
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