Has Cameron blown it?
Discussion
s in a Stalinist dictatorship, and the Lib Dems are a work experience boy, and someone who sounds like he knows about the economy, but in reality knows fgrumbledoak said:
BOR said:
The electorate are rejecting Conservatism in favour of a more equitable society.
Quite surprised to see you up at this time; good effort.They are sick to death of Labour and Brown, but Labour and their media toadies are doing a good job of portraying the alternatives in a bad light. .
grumbledoak said:
BOR said:
The electorate are rejecting Conservatism in favour of a more equitable society.
Quite surprised to see you up at this time; good effort.The electorate are doing nothing of the sort. They are sick to death of Labour and Brown, but Labour and their media toadies are doing a good job of portraying the alternatives in a bad light. Following his recent performance, some of that effort will be turned on Clegg, which might give Dave a break.
People are certainly sick to death of Labour. But I don't think they trust or believe a thing Camneron says either. He's just another Eton-Toryboy who only ever says what he thinks people will want to hear, i.e. you never get any sense of his true political values. I guess people suspect that he will use any potential PM'ship to simply further himself and his toff mates.
ETA: If you really want to see how inept he is at communicating when he hasn't been briefed to the hilt, watch the TV footage of the Gay Times interview. Epic media fail.
Edited by V8mate on Tuesday 20th April 08:53
GT03ROB said:
Unfortunately as some have said he lacks charisma. Listen to him talk, there is no passion, no desire. His debating & presentation skills are just amateurish.
He is by far the best orator of the 3 party leaders.GT03ROB said:
Somebody seems to have told Cameron not to attack Labours record. This is madness.
To the average man or woman in the street their record is good. This is what so many on PH forget. House prices up. Public sector spend up massively. Benefits up massively.OK so this is based on debt. So what, we're all in debt. Remember most of the electorate are a not very numerate. The size of the debt and deficit is almost irrelevant to them.
The general public do not believe the suggestion that the IMF might step in. They do not yet believe that even Labour will HAVE to cut public spending if they win the next election.
BOR said:
The electorate are rejecting Conservatism in favour of a more equitable society.
God help us.It is a lovely idea untill you actually see the twisted socialist concept of what it means.
We all know what a "fairer society" or "more equitable society" means in practice.
It means "pay more tax" and "subsidise others" unless, of course, you already get paid via other people's taxes in which case "fairness" means "let someone else pay for it".
I cannot imagine a society less fair than one which takes from someone who contributes only to waste it on those who contribute nothing and a system that often forces them into this situation.
That last bit is the real shame as it could be changed so easily. The poverty trap is easily solved (cap benefits and stop means testing for example), workfare could reduce the benefit culture overnight, insisting that anyone on benefits reports to a workshop or office to do something (paid work, 9 to 5 job club, anything) useful could reduce the benefit bill overnight by making a life at home paid by someone else untenable.
So easy to fix yet we are forced, in the name of "fairness", to perpetuate paying for a totally unfair system and those who willingly take without any notion of ever contributing.
I have seen Cameron on TV on a number of occasions and not just for brief soundbites, I watched the entirity of his manifesto presentation and Q&A session afterwards for example, and I have always thought he was a good communicator and comes across as someone who could be a good leader.
I cannot say the same for Osbourne and in a depression who you have as your shadow chancellor is even more important than at other times (when it is still a vital role). A year ago there should have been a reshuffle, but it is too late now.
I cannot say the same for Osbourne and in a depression who you have as your shadow chancellor is even more important than at other times (when it is still a vital role). A year ago there should have been a reshuffle, but it is too late now.
oyster said:
GT03ROB said:
Unfortunately as some have said he lacks charisma. Listen to him talk, there is no passion, no desire. His debating & presentation skills are just amateurish.
He is by far the best orator of the 3 party leaders.A true orator speaks from the heart.
JagLover said:
I have seen Cameron on TV on a number of occasions and not just for brief soundbites, I watched the entirity of his manifesto presentation and Q&A session afterwards for example, and I have always thought he was a good communicator and comes across as someone who could be a good leader.
I cannot say the same for Osbourne and in a depression who you have as your shadow chancellor is even more important than at other times (when it is still a vital role). A year ago there should have been a reshuffle, but it is too late now.
I quite agree.I cannot say the same for Osbourne and in a depression who you have as your shadow chancellor is even more important than at other times (when it is still a vital role). A year ago there should have been a reshuffle, but it is too late now.
Cameron is a good orator and communicator. The expenses scandal and the previous performance of the Conservatives has meant he's had to battle peoples own prejudices about what another Tory government would be like. Labour, with their spin and lies have made all politicians look like flim flam merchants and hence the electorate hate labour, but can't bring themselves to vote tory either at present.
The suggestion that William Hague should be leader again is laughable. We've been there before, with disastrous results.
The next week will be vital for Cameron to try and communicate the need for change better.
What I haven't seen yet is Cameron pointing out how the last 13 years have lead to a nanny state with ridiculous amounts of regulation, increasing tax and stupid social policies, all driven by Labour. He needs to remind people what has happened to this country in the last 13 years. So far he's tried to be positive in his electioneering and I think that's a mistake.
I can't believe how many of you think that an ability to learn a few lines makes him a great orator/public speaker/communicator.
(Repeating myself) If you really want to see how inept he is at communicating when he hasn't been briefed to the hilt, find the 'fly on the wall' TV footage of the Gay Times interview. Epic media fail.
Asked questions to which he hadn't been briefed and prepared - sweating, stuttering, getting annoyed. He's no statesman.
(Repeating myself) If you really want to see how inept he is at communicating when he hasn't been briefed to the hilt, find the 'fly on the wall' TV footage of the Gay Times interview. Epic media fail.
Asked questions to which he hadn't been briefed and prepared - sweating, stuttering, getting annoyed. He's no statesman.
V8mate said:
I can't believe how many of you think that an ability to learn a few lines makes him a great orator/public speaker/communicator.
(Repeating myself) If you really want to see how inept he is at communicating when he hasn't been briefed to the hilt, find the 'fly on the wall' TV footage of the Gay Times interview. Epic media fail.
Asked questions to which he hadn't been briefed and prepared - sweating, stuttering, getting annoyed. He's no statesman.
It's not a few lines that we've heard. And yes I saw that interview. (Repeating myself) If you really want to see how inept he is at communicating when he hasn't been briefed to the hilt, find the 'fly on the wall' TV footage of the Gay Times interview. Epic media fail.
Asked questions to which he hadn't been briefed and prepared - sweating, stuttering, getting annoyed. He's no statesman.
However he's not the first politician to get into a mess in an interview. In that one it was specifically because of his policy and personal beliefs were clearly at odds. So what?
He's still the best communicator of the 3 parties and his performance in PMQs shows he's quick witted and able to think on his feet.
V8mate said:
I can't believe how many of you think that an ability to learn a few lines makes him a great orator/public speaker/communicator.
(Repeating myself) If you really want to see how inept he is at communicating when he hasn't been briefed to the hilt, find the 'fly on the wall' TV footage of the Gay Times interview. Epic media fail.
Asked questions to which he hadn't been briefed and prepared - sweating, stuttering, getting annoyed. He's no statesman.
Whats getting seriously irritating is that none of the main options - Brown, Cameron or Clegg are statesmen of any sort, although I'm worried that I'm slightly warming to Clegg more than the others.(Repeating myself) If you really want to see how inept he is at communicating when he hasn't been briefed to the hilt, find the 'fly on the wall' TV footage of the Gay Times interview. Epic media fail.
Asked questions to which he hadn't been briefed and prepared - sweating, stuttering, getting annoyed. He's no statesman.
Locally I have absolutely no hesitation in voting Conservative - our local MP has been pretty damn good. Nationally, i'm starting to find it very difficult to believe in Cameron. Which makes for a rather difficult decision in the next couple of weeks.
cymtriks said:
BOR said:
The electorate are rejecting Conservatism in favour of a more equitable society.
God help us.It is a lovely idea untill you actually see the twisted socialist concept of what it means.
We all know what a "fairer society" or "more equitable society" means in practice.
It means "pay more tax" and "subsidise others" unless, of course, you already get paid via other people's taxes in which case "fairness" means "let someone else pay for it".
I cannot imagine a society less fair than one which takes from someone who contributes only to waste it on those who contribute nothing and a system that often forces them into this situation.
That last bit is the real shame as it could be changed so easily. The poverty trap is easily solved (cap benefits and stop means testing for example), workfare could reduce the benefit culture overnight, insisting that anyone on benefits reports to a workshop or office to do something (paid work, 9 to 5 job club, anything) useful could reduce the benefit bill overnight by making a life at home paid by someone else untenable.
So easy to fix yet we are forced, in the name of "fairness", to perpetuate paying for a totally unfair system and those who willingly take without any notion of ever contributing.
V8mate said:
oyster said:
GT03ROB said:
Unfortunately as some have said he lacks charisma. Listen to him talk, there is no passion, no desire. His debating & presentation skills are just amateurish.
He is by far the best orator of the 3 party leaders.A true orator speaks from the heart.
Better than the grinning buffoon Brown, but Clegg comes across as natural, which is why he made an impact.
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