Has Cameron blown it?

[V8mate]

GT03ROB said:

V8mate said:

oyster said:

GT03ROB said:

Unfortunately as some have said he lacks charisma. Listen to him talk, there is no passion, no desire. His debating & presentation skills are just amateurish.

He is by far the best orator of the 3 party leaders.

Anyone can deliver pre-written and rehearsed lines.

A true orator speaks from the heart.

Exactly, I keep wanting him to say something that feels like it's him talking. I want to understand what makes him tick. I cannot comprehend what drives him. He seems almost robotic at times. He seems to be fearful, scared to say anything for fear of saying the wrong thing.

Better than the grinning buffoon Brown, but Clegg comes across as natural, which is why he made an impact.

He is. He's C3P0 made entirely of cheap ham.

[968]

V8mate said:

GT03ROB said:

V8mate said:

oyster said:

GT03ROB said:

Unfortunately as some have said he lacks charisma. Listen to him talk, there is no passion, no desire. His debating & presentation skills are just amateurish.

He is by far the best orator of the 3 party leaders.

Anyone can deliver pre-written and rehearsed lines.

A true orator speaks from the heart.

Exactly, I keep wanting him to say something that feels like it's him talking. I want to understand what makes him tick. I cannot comprehend what drives him. He seems almost robotic at times. He seems to be fearful, scared to say anything for fear of saying the wrong thing.

Better than the grinning buffoon Brown, but Clegg comes across as natural, which is why he made an impact.

He is. He's C3P0 made entirely of cheap ham.

Great.

Vote Labour then. Or better still vote Lib Dem aka Socialist Workers Party. Clegg is basically an actor who has an easy task of being able to say what he likes, as there's not chance in hell he'll be elected. He can also do what he did in the debate and point at the other 2 parties failings over the years. Cameron has a tough job because he knows what will need to be done to make things work, and most of those things would be likely to lose votes. Clegg however, can promise the earth as he has to deliver bugger all.

Cameron isn't any of the things you make out. If he were I doubt he would have been elected as leader of his party and he wouldn't enjoy support from many Conservatives. Certainly I've been much more impressed with the Tories under Cameron than I was under Howard/Duncan Smith/Hague.

[Zod]

V8mate said:

GT03ROB said:

V8mate said:

oyster said:

GT03ROB said:

Unfortunately as some have said he lacks charisma. Listen to him talk, there is no passion, no desire. His debating & presentation skills are just amateurish.

He is by far the best orator of the 3 party leaders.

Anyone can deliver pre-written and rehearsed lines.

A true orator speaks from the heart.

Exactly, I keep wanting him to say something that feels like it's him talking. I want to understand what makes him tick. I cannot comprehend what drives him. He seems almost robotic at times. He seems to be fearful, scared to say anything for fear of saying the wrong thing.

Better than the grinning buffoon Brown, but Clegg comes across as natural, which is why he made an impact.

He is. He's C3P0 made entirely of cheap ham.

That line wasn't even funny the first time and now that so many lame commentators have tried to pass it off as their own, it's moronic.

[V8mate]

968 said:

V8mate said:

GT03ROB said:

V8mate said:

oyster said:

GT03ROB said:

Unfortunately as some have said he lacks charisma. Listen to him talk, there is no passion, no desire. His debating & presentation skills are just amateurish.

He is by far the best orator of the 3 party leaders.

Anyone can deliver pre-written and rehearsed lines.

A true orator speaks from the heart.

Exactly, I keep wanting him to say something that feels like it's him talking. I want to understand what makes him tick. I cannot comprehend what drives him. He seems almost robotic at times. He seems to be fearful, scared to say anything for fear of saying the wrong thing.

Better than the grinning buffoon Brown, but Clegg comes across as natural, which is why he made an impact.

He is. He's C3P0 made entirely of cheap ham.

Great.

Vote Labour then. Or better still vote Lib Dem aka Socialist Workers Party. Clegg is basically an actor who has an easy task of being able to say what he likes, as there's not chance in hell he'll be elected. He can also do what he did in the debate and point at the other 2 parties failings over the years. Cameron has a tough job because he knows what will need to be done to make things work, and most of those things would be likely to lose votes. Clegg however, can promise the earth as he has to deliver bugger all.

Cameron isn't any of the things you make out. If he were I doubt he would have been elected as leader of his party and he wouldn't enjoy support from many Conservatives. Certainly I've been much more impressed with the Tories under Cameron than I was under Howard/Duncan Smith/Hague.

The Tories have fallen in line because they are fed up with being on the opposition benches. Let's see how that solidarity holds once they are in government.

[968]

V8mate said:

The Tories have fallen in line because they are fed up with being on the opposition benches. Let's see how that solidarity holds once they are in government.

Perhaps. If you vote Lib Dem/UKIP, that won't happen of course. We'll be stuck with Labour for another 5 years.

Notice how firmly the Tories have been in opposition since 1997, they've fought 2 elections since and were thrashed. Since Cameron has been leader their popularity has increased. The expenses scandal, however, has been the biggest obstacle for any party and has made unelectable Labour actually have a chance, as voter apathy means they will probably hold onto their majority.

The election will see the end of many old-timers in the Tory party, due to the expenses scandal. With their departure Cameron could well consolidate his power base.

[Bing o]

968 said:

Notice how firmly the Tories have been in opposition since 1997, they've fought 2 elections since and were thrashed. Since Cameron has been leader their popularity has increased.

fk me, if you can't pick up a share of the vote against this shower, then you need shooting. Labour's ecomomic miracle unravelling has coincided with Cameron's ascension to power.

[BJG1]

Think the Tories need William Hague at the helm again. he'd have run rings around the other two in the telivised debates, plus he's a better all-round leader imo, would give the Tories more focus and purpose.

[greygoose]

968 said:

Great.

Vote Labour then. Or better still vote Lib Dem aka Socialist Workers Party. Clegg is basically an actor who has an easy task of being able to say what he likes, as there's not chance in hell he'll be elected. He can also do what he did in the debate and point at the other 2 parties failings over the years. Cameron has a tough job because he knows what will need to be done to make things work, and most of those things would be likely to lose votes. Clegg however, can promise the earth as he has to deliver bugger all.

Cameron isn't any of the things you make out. If he were I doubt he would have been elected as leader of his party and he wouldn't enjoy support from many Conservatives. Certainly I've been much more impressed with the Tories under Cameron than I was under Howard/Duncan Smith/Hague.

Very true, the reality that everyone ignores is the country is in a terrible situation and painful measures are the only way out, that isn't a vote winner with many people though.

[cs02rm0]

There's still some way to go on this, but the Labour spin machine is pushing very hard for people to vote Lib Dem instead of Conservative.

[968]

Bing o said:

968 said:

Notice how firmly the Tories have been in opposition since 1997, they've fought 2 elections since and were thrashed. Since Cameron has been leader their popularity has increased.

fk me, if you can't pick up a share of the vote against this shower, then you need shooting. Labour's ecomomic miracle unravelling has coincided with Cameron's ascension to power.

You're missing a rather big factor ie the expenses scandal. Trust in politicians of all colour has disappeared.

The Tories have done badly in the expenses scandal, duck houses and Alan Duncans gaffes? People don't trust them, but then they don't trust labour either.

Also Labour have employed clever spin to detract that the economy is not their fault, but a "global economic recession" which they repeat ad nauseam.

[V8mate]

greygoose said:

968 said:

Great.

Vote Labour then. Or better still vote Lib Dem aka Socialist Workers Party. Clegg is basically an actor who has an easy task of being able to say what he likes, as there's not chance in hell he'll be elected. He can also do what he did in the debate and point at the other 2 parties failings over the years. Cameron has a tough job because he knows what will need to be done to make things work, and most of those things would be likely to lose votes. Clegg however, can promise the earth as he has to deliver bugger all.

Cameron isn't any of the things you make out. If he were I doubt he would have been elected as leader of his party and he wouldn't enjoy support from many Conservatives. Certainly I've been much more impressed with the Tories under Cameron than I was under Howard/Duncan Smith/Hague.

Very true, the reality that everyone ignores is the country is in a terrible situation and painful measures are the only way out, that isn't a vote winner with many people though.

And the open and honest Conservative policies for achieving that are.....?

[968]

BJG1 said:

Think the Tories need William Hague at the helm again. he'd have run rings around the other two in the telivised debates, plus he's a better all-round leader imo, would give the Tories more focus and purpose.

He's been there before and he was crap. The Tories were thrashed in an election he contested. It's not an option.

[Tangent Police]

TankRizzo said:

cymtriks said:

BOR said:

The electorate are rejecting Conservatism in favour of a more equitable society.

God help us.

It is a lovely idea untill you actually see the twisted socialist concept of what it means.

We all know what a "fairer society" or "more equitable society" means in practice.

It means "pay more tax" and "subsidise others" unless, of course, you already get paid via other people's taxes in which case "fairness" means "let someone else pay for it".

I cannot imagine a society less fair than one which takes from someone who contributes only to waste it on those who contribute nothing and a system that often forces them into this situation.

That last bit is the real shame as it could be changed so easily. The poverty trap is easily solved (cap benefits and stop means testing for example), workfare could reduce the benefit culture overnight, insisting that anyone on benefits reports to a workshop or office to do something (paid work, 9 to 5 job club, anything) useful could reduce the benefit bill overnight by making a life at home paid by someone else untenable.

So easy to fix yet we are forced, in the name of "fairness", to perpetuate paying for a totally unfair system and those who willingly take without any notion of ever contributing.

Good post. I cringe whenever I hear the word "fairness" used by politicians. It just means smash those who work, and give to those who don't.

.....and it is financially unsustainable and the grim reaper of finance is coming.

We can't afford a eutopia, because it's outcome is contrary to the nature of effective economics. Forcing it ALWAYS results in this mess.

[Fittster]

V8mate said:

greygoose said:

968 said:

Great.

Vote Labour then. Or better still vote Lib Dem aka Socialist Workers Party. Clegg is basically an actor who has an easy task of being able to say what he likes, as there's not chance in hell he'll be elected. He can also do what he did in the debate and point at the other 2 parties failings over the years. Cameron has a tough job because he knows what will need to be done to make things work, and most of those things would be likely to lose votes. Clegg however, can promise the earth as he has to deliver bugger all.

Cameron isn't any of the things you make out. If he were I doubt he would have been elected as leader of his party and he wouldn't enjoy support from many Conservatives. Certainly I've been much more impressed with the Tories under Cameron than I was under Howard/Duncan Smith/Hague.

Very true, the reality that everyone ignores is the country is in a terrible situation and painful measures are the only way out, that isn't a vote winner with many people though.

And the open and honest Conservative policies for achieving that are.....?

No one will vote for a party that says "Here comes the medicine, shut-up and take it, it's for your own good".

Thankfully the IMF don't have to be elected before they can act.

[968]

Fittster said:

V8mate said:

greygoose said:

968 said:

Great.

Vote Labour then. Or better still vote Lib Dem aka Socialist Workers Party. Clegg is basically an actor who has an easy task of being able to say what he likes, as there's not chance in hell he'll be elected. He can also do what he did in the debate and point at the other 2 parties failings over the years. Cameron has a tough job because he knows what will need to be done to make things work, and most of those things would be likely to lose votes. Clegg however, can promise the earth as he has to deliver bugger all.

Cameron isn't any of the things you make out. If he were I doubt he would have been elected as leader of his party and he wouldn't enjoy support from many Conservatives. Certainly I've been much more impressed with the Tories under Cameron than I was under Howard/Duncan Smith/Hague.

Very true, the reality that everyone ignores is the country is in a terrible situation and painful measures are the only way out, that isn't a vote winner with many people though.

And the open and honest Conservative policies for achieving that are.....?

No one will vote for a party that says "Here comes the medicine, shut-up and take it, it's for your own good".

Thankfully the IMF don't have to be elected before they can act.

True, and what we know is that the want to be small government to cut waste. To me that means they will make big cuts in some public services that Labour currently pours money into. That's always going to be a vote loser, but tough st. Cuts now mean possibly lower taxes in future.

[Tangent Police]

Fittster said:

V8mate said:

greygoose said:

968 said:

Great.

Vote Labour then. Or better still vote Lib Dem aka Socialist Workers Party. Clegg is basically an actor who has an easy task of being able to say what he likes, as there's not chance in hell he'll be elected. He can also do what he did in the debate and point at the other 2 parties failings over the years. Cameron has a tough job because he knows what will need to be done to make things work, and most of those things would be likely to lose votes. Clegg however, can promise the earth as he has to deliver bugger all.

Cameron isn't any of the things you make out. If he were I doubt he would have been elected as leader of his party and he wouldn't enjoy support from many Conservatives. Certainly I've been much more impressed with the Tories under Cameron than I was under Howard/Duncan Smith/Hague.

Very true, the reality that everyone ignores is the country is in a terrible situation and painful measures are the only way out, that isn't a vote winner with many people though.

And the open and honest Conservative policies for achieving that are.....?

No one will vote for a party that says "Here comes the medicine, shut-up and take it, it's for your own good".

Thankfully the IMF don't have to be elected before they can act.

Are the IMF not like the bringer of methadone. We are sat shivering from our lack of smack and then we get their injection of methadone, which stops the shivering. As soon as the dealer rocks up, we're all reaching for the spoons.

Can they make us sort out this unsustainable nonsense, or are they all nice communitarians and the nice socialist things we enjoy, we can get to keep?

I don't think we've got a public who will vote for the country, in front of themselves.

They don't understand it and they think they owe it nothing and it owes them everything.

[Dakkon]

cs02rm0 said:

There's still some way to go on this, but the Labour spin machine is pushing very hard for people to vote Lib Dem instead of Conservative.

We also have another two televised debates to go through yet, personally I doubt the Lib Dems will continue to enjoy their popularity

But I do think this is going to be a closer and more interesting election than seen for many years.

[The real Apache]

Unfortunately the drooling masses are easily won over having been brought up on a diet of personality TV, look at the F1 threads, all these muppets can talk about now is how much nicer JB is than LH and how LH is arrogant, so the fk what.

We have Celebrity On Ice, I'm a Celebrity get me out of here, Pop Idol etc where people are encouraged to vote on 'how nice they all are' so when this live debate was televised all the goons thought, 'oooh he's a nice young man' and in my area, a safe Tory one, fking Lib Dem placards have sprung up everywhere like a meningitis rash.

Screw policies, Blair got in with a nice smile and a sharp suit, so will the next guy

Edited by The real Apache on Tuesday 20th April 11:37

[dandarez]

Has Cameron blown it?

Let me take you back just a couple years.

Conservative leader, David Cameron, accused the Prime Minister of lacking 'courage' on the issue and said his actions threatened to undermine public trust in politicians by abandoning the Labour manifesto pledge to hold a public vote on a new EU constitution.

At PMQs today Mr Cameron claimed the treaty effectively established a 'United States of Europe' which Tony Blair was hoping to lead.

'The truth is all of us in this House promised a referendum,' he said.

'We have the courage of our convictions and are sticking to that promise - you have lost your courage and that lot (the Lib Dems) have lost their convictions.

PROMISES, PROMISES!!
Cameron would have had a bloody landslide, but he became just like Bliar, a liar.
They lost a quarter of their vote immediately to UKIP.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

V8mate said:

I can't believe how many of you think that an ability to learn a few lines makes him a great orator/public speaker/communicator.

(Repeating myself) If you really want to see how inept he is at communicating when he hasn't been briefed to the hilt, find the 'fly on the wall' TV footage of the Gay Times interview. Epic media fail.

Asked questions to which he hadn't been briefed and prepared - sweating, stuttering, getting annoyed. He's no statesman.

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