SNP

[Blue Meanie]

Reading that SNP bumph you'd think they were conquered. You wouldn't think it was Scottish King that unified the 2 countries.

[ninja-lewis]

Blue Meanie said:

ninja-lewis said:

Scottish students attending an UK university outside of Scotland, of course have to pay tuition fees like any other UK student. And Scottish MPs may of course represent English students attending Scottish universities in their constituencies (40% of Edinburgh Uni students are English for example).

So in that particular case I don't think it was wrong for some Scottish MPs to take part in the vote (as it applied to their constituents as well) but I do thoroughly disagree with the way the Government used them to force the bill through in the face of English opposition.

And English students studying in their home country? They get charged. How is that fair? Do English Student going to Scotland get it free? No they don't.

So you have a situation whereby a Scottish student can get their education without top-up fees, and an English Student will be charged no matter.

I didn't say it was fair. I was simply saying that specific issue is not quite clear English-only as others. And I definitely don't think the way the government went about it was right. In an ideal world, Scottish MPs would have the discretion to represent their constituents on an issue like that but if the government abuses that discretion then it has to be denied to all Scottish MPs. On clearly English issues, they shouldn't vote at all (there is perhaps an argument to allow them to contribute to debates (e.g. to impart their own personal knowledge or perhaps how it has/hasn't worked in Scotland). But it's a very tricky constitutional problem I think, to which there is probably no straightforward answer but to muddle through by developing new Parliamentary conventions.

[thinfourth2]

Dixie68 said:

Hopefully not a repost - hard to search on my iPhone...
So the SNP are hoping for a hung parliament so they can have more power in Westminster. Now hold on a cotton-picking minute, haven't they got their OWN bloody parliament? I don't want a party that's stated aim is to promote Scotland above all others to be making decisions that affect us English, Welsh or Irish.

Well lets be honest if the entire transport policy wasn't based on "you can walk to the tube station as its only round the corner" then we might not be so utterly pissed off with those fking idiots in westminster with their stupid bloody londoncentric based half arsed stupidity.

Is it any wonder that the folk in the highlands of Scotland are a little bit pissed off at paying £1:30 a litre for fuel and 4x4s are taxed to stupid because some little ex fking politics student think we should all take the tube.

That is one tiny part of why the SNP wants more power and alot of scotland wants rid of being ruled by those wkers in London as you can't tow a big trailer full of sheep across a field with a fking G-wiz you stupid lefty tree hugging who has never actually seen a fking forest as he might get some mud on his fking Armani sandals which i fking paid for!!!!!!!!

Edited by thinfourth2 on Wednesday 21st April 07:01

[fluffnik]

ninja-lewis said:

But it's a very tricky constitutional problem I think, to which there is probably no straightforward answer but to muddle through by developing new Parliamentary conventions.

There's a very simple solution: dissolve the UK.

[fluffnik]

Blue Meanie said:

Reading that SNP bumph you'd think they were conquered. You wouldn't think it was Scottish King that unified the 2 countries.

The unions of Crowns and Parliaments are two separate issues, a century apart.

Personally, I'm also a republican.

Divine right of Kings? Pshaw!!

[Incredible Sulk]

Blue Meanie said:

Reading that SNP bumph you'd think they were conquered. You wouldn't think it was Scottish King that unified the 2 countries.

Eh? Queen Anne was on the throne in 1707.

[rich1231]

Biggotry is ok if you are Scottish.

[Blue Meanie]

Incredible Sulk said:

Blue Meanie said:

Reading that SNP bumph you'd think they were conquered. You wouldn't think it was Scottish King that unified the 2 countries.

Eh? Queen Anne was on the throne in 1707.

The union of the crowns paved the way. That was in 1603. That DID unify the country. The union of parliaments was later. Back then the monarchy was all important with regards to treaties, and alliances. Either way, whichever you look at, the union was no conquering, or union by violence, as many people see to see it.

Edited by Blue Meanie on Wednesday 21st April 14:01

[Incredible Sulk]

Blue Meanie said:

The union of the crowns paved the way. That was in 1603. That DID unify the country. The union of parliaments was later. Either way, whichever you look at, the union was no conquering, or union by violence, as many people see to see it.

Er, no it didn't, in much the same way that earlier English Kings who had a claim to large chunks of France didn't unify France and England. Scotland was a separate country until 1707, irrespective of who the monarch was between 1603 and 1707. The Act of Union was a bit of a political stitch up designed to benefit the landed gentry, and was opposed by many ordinary Scots (who didn't of course have any say in the matter). I seem to remember learning about this when I was sitting my Highers, a long time ago.

And of course, the violence came later, in the run up to, and as a consequence of, the '15 and the '45.

[Blue Meanie]

Incredible Sulk said:

Blue Meanie said:

The union of the crowns paved the way. That was in 1603. That DID unify the country. The union of parliaments was later. Either way, whichever you look at, the union was no conquering, or union by violence, as many people see to see it.

Er, no it didn't, in much the same way that earlier English Kings who had a claim to large chunks of France didn't unify France and England. Scotland was a separate country until 1707, irrespective of who the monarch was between 1603 and 1707. The Act of Union was a bit of a political stitch up designed to benefit the landed gentry, and was opposed by many ordinary Scots (who didn't of course have any say in the matter). I seem to remember learning about this when I was sitting my Highers, a long time ago.

And of course, the violence came later, in the run up to, and as a consequence of, the '15 and the '45.

It removed the Scottish 'allegiance' with france. You really don;t see that as the major breakthrough? I never said they weren't separate countries, (Scotland is still a separate country). I am simply saying that the union of the crowns paved the way for the union, and it was done via a Scottish King, NOT by force of violence.

[fluffnik]

Blue Meanie said:

Incredible Sulk said:

Eh? Queen Anne was on the throne in 1707.

The union of the crowns paved the way. That was in 1603. That DID unify the country. The union of parliaments was later. Back then the monarchy was all important with regards to treaties, and alliances. Either way, whichever you look at, the union was no conquering, or union by violence, as many people see to see it.

Relationships between Scotland and England were not immediately improved by the Union of Crowns...

[Blue Meanie]

fluffnik said:

Blue Meanie said:

Incredible Sulk said:

Eh? Queen Anne was on the throne in 1707.

The union of the crowns paved the way. That was in 1603. That DID unify the country. The union of parliaments was later. Back then the monarchy was all important with regards to treaties, and alliances. Either way, whichever you look at, the union was no conquering, or union by violence, as many people see to see it.

Relationships between Scotland and England were not immediately improved by the Union of Crowns...

I never said they were! I simply said that the union of the crowns, by a Scottish king, led the way to union. It was not through conquering, or what have you. You are getting way too involved in this with stuff I did not say.

[Halb]

Dixie68 said:

Hopefully not a repost - hard to search on my iPhone...
So the SNP are hoping for a hung parliament so they can have more power in Westminster. Now hold on a cotton-picking minute, haven't they got their OWN bloody parliament? I don't want a party that's stated aim is to promote Scotland above all others to be making decisions that affect us English, Welsh or Irish.

No...balanced dear boy...balanced

[SmoothRB]

rich1231 said:

Biggotry is ok if you are Scottish.

...and if you are any 'minority basically'.

Anyway nationalism is irrelevant in this age of globalisation and mass immigration. The SNP are just opportunists, they beat a certain drum and it gets them votes...Alex Salmon is a canny demagogue, exploiting various fashionable political themes from political correctness to anti-colonial ideas.

[Herbie58]

rich1231 said:

Biggotry is ok if you are Scottish.

It would seem its also ok if you're shagging a scot too.

Or if your name is Rich1231.


Oh wait.......

Eta - didn't realise that would get though swear filter

Edited by Herbie58 on Wednesday 21st April 22:01

[Bing o]

thinfourth2 said:

Is it any wonder that the folk in the highlands of Scotland are a little bit pissed off at paying £1:30 a litre for fuel and 4x4s are taxed to stupid because some little ex fking politics student think we should all take the tube.

Erm, no, it's £1.30 a litre because we've been saddled with a load of failed solicitors from Jockland who have destroyed our economy.

[Incredible Sulk]

Bing o said:

thinfourth2 said:

Is it any wonder that the folk in the highlands of Scotland are a little bit pissed off at paying £1:30 a litre for fuel and 4x4s are taxed to stupid because some little ex fking politics student think we should all take the tube.

Erm, no, it's £1.30 a litre because we've been saddled with a load of failed solicitors from Jockland who have destroyed our economy.

No use railing at Scots in general for that. If they weren't heading up the Labour party/ gubberment, who would be in charge and would they be any better? Personally, I think that the Brothers Milliband are a pair of complete tossers. Harriet Halfwit? Alan Johnson? FFS I'm no fan of Winky or Unfeasible Eyebrows, but they are arguably the best of the bunch that WE in general, voted for last time round. Remember they have so little talent in the PLP that they have to rely on the Lords to supply half the members of the government.

[jshell]

Bing o said:

thinfourth2 said:

Is it any wonder that the folk in the highlands of Scotland are a little bit pissed off at paying £1:30 a litre for fuel and 4x4s are taxed to stupid because some little ex fking politics student think we should all take the tube.

Erm, no, it's £1.30 a litre because we've been saddled with a load of failed solicitors from Jockland who have destroyed our economy.

And the problem is that they are Scottish? ...or failed solicitors?

[Bing o]

jshell said:

Bing o said:

thinfourth2 said:

Is it any wonder that the folk in the highlands of Scotland are a little bit pissed off at paying £1:30 a litre for fuel and 4x4s are taxed to stupid because some little ex fking politics student think we should all take the tube.

Erm, no, it's £1.30 a litre because we've been saddled with a load of failed solicitors from Jockland who have destroyed our economy.

And the problem is that they are Scottish? ...or failed solicitors?

The problem is slagging off Londoncentric policies when the policies have been made by the PM and the Chancellor, who are both Scottish.

[jshell]

Bing o said:

jshell said:

Bing o said:

thinfourth2 said:

Is it any wonder that the folk in the highlands of Scotland are a little bit pissed off at paying £1:30 a litre for fuel and 4x4s are taxed to stupid because some little ex fking politics student think we should all take the tube.

Erm, no, it's £1.30 a litre because we've been saddled with a load of failed solicitors from Jockland who have destroyed our economy.

And the problem is that they are Scottish? ...or failed solicitors?

The problem is slagging off Londoncentric policies when the policies have been made by the PM and the Chancellor, who are both Scottish.

Their Scottishness has gone, they've sold their souls to the corrupt god of Westminster. And, we really don't want the s back.