The Lib-Lab coalition
Discussion
Is this actually good news for the Tories?
It would make another unelected PM run the country, they (the coalition) will inevitably make the Greek fiasco look like sunshine and lollipops, and the general public will get to see the politicians for who they really are.
As I see it, after achieving electoral reform the IMF will be called in, a draconian curb on spending will follow and taxes will rise even further.
And then everything will implode. These measures will be as popular as the Community Charge was in Scotland.
At that point it makes everything Mervyn King said come true and when the vote of no confidence comes, after Labour stab their nice-but-somewhat-naive Liberal friends in the back, it will result in a general election and the Tories will get a proper majority and a proper mandate.
What do you think?
It would make another unelected PM run the country, they (the coalition) will inevitably make the Greek fiasco look like sunshine and lollipops, and the general public will get to see the politicians for who they really are.
As I see it, after achieving electoral reform the IMF will be called in, a draconian curb on spending will follow and taxes will rise even further.
And then everything will implode. These measures will be as popular as the Community Charge was in Scotland.
At that point it makes everything Mervyn King said come true and when the vote of no confidence comes, after Labour stab their nice-but-somewhat-naive Liberal friends in the back, it will result in a general election and the Tories will get a proper majority and a proper mandate.
What do you think?
mine timed out after i posted aswell.A LIB/LAB coalition isn't such a thing - it's a LIB/LAB/SNP/PC/SDLP/GRN/ETC coalition, with the tiddlers going "do what we want (which is either regional or insane, hence our minority status) or we're going to vote with the Tories".
John Reid wasn't wrong when he said it was a load of old cock.
John Reid wasn't wrong when he said it was a load of old cock.
I did chuckle when Hague's 'letter from Foreign Secretary to PM' was leaked over the weekend. To me that was obviously the Tories tryig to put a subtle block on a Con/Dem pact. A bit like getting to the altar for your wedding and then telling the bride "hope you don't mind - but I shagged your mum and sister last week. I just want us to be honest with each other!!"
How else can the party with most votes and seats row out of a disasterous position and still paint themselves as the 'wounded hero' from some Wild West cowboy movie?
How else can the party with most votes and seats row out of a disasterous position and still paint themselves as the 'wounded hero' from some Wild West cowboy movie?
Large parts of the English population found the last Scottish Labour government difficult to swallow.
I suspect a majority will find the idea of a coalition led by the second unelected PM, and focusing on looking after Wales and Scotland as palatable as the Ark Royal for a light snack.
If and when the Tories get in, one of their first acts will be to curb the power of Labour MPs in Scotland and Wales. Both by dismissing them from England only debates, but also large scale electoral reform.
I suspect a majority will find the idea of a coalition led by the second unelected PM, and focusing on looking after Wales and Scotland as palatable as the Ark Royal for a light snack.
If and when the Tories get in, one of their first acts will be to curb the power of Labour MPs in Scotland and Wales. Both by dismissing them from England only debates, but also large scale electoral reform.
motco said:
That sweet little Caroline Lucas of the Green Pixie Party just said on 'Today' that "Clearly the people voted for a Labour/LibDem coalition".
She's a watermelon - so anything she says can be discounted as utter lunacy.As to this Lib/Lab business?
IF it goes ahead (and it probably should) it's going to make the populace very, very angry. They voted and the result was that CMD and his boys got the most seats by a whacking margin. The fact that it is possible (just) for an utterly disparate set of groups to deny them government is a deeply regrettable function of our parliamentary system.
But it won't stop 'em calling for a Vote of No Confidence and forcing a second election.
At which I expect an angry populace to punish the Lib Dems. And probably any marginal seat with a minor party in it: in an attempt to get their favoured one of the Big Two in.
Goodness knows how that would turn out - maybe the Cameroons can get a majority, maybe not.
I wonder if we will now get a formal coalition of Lib/Lab, then a quick election for a new Labour leader followed by another General election with a Lib/Lab coalition standing but not standing against each other and encouraging all voters to choose that coalition candidate? The polls suggest they would win by a simple %.
I am still not convinced this isn't just Clegg playing hard ball with the Tories.
I am still not convinced this isn't just Clegg playing hard ball with the Tories.
The Socialist parties dont actually care what is best for the country, they are merely intesrest in "being in power". Their beliefs and ideals just turn to jelly and get lobbed in the bin in favour of just "keeping out the evil Tories!". I think it is as simple as that, both the main Socialist parties will abandon their principles "in the National Interest"......that being no Tories. The rest is totally unimportant to them.
Unfortunately I get some of you are giving the general populace of this country far too much credit. I have too many prats on my facebook & through talking to who think this would be fine as "Labour & Lib Dems got more votes innit" some of them are even intelligent folks!
Fact is a lot of people who didn't vote Tory did it more or the fact that 'Torys are for the rich working class is Labour'.
People like you & me who think it's preposterous in a democratic country for the losers to form a coalition, sell England down the river, to have another unelected leader etc etc. Many just see it as 'the party they voted for getting in' and keeping the Toffs out. That is why I fear that the outrage may not be as sustained as it should be.
Either way I'm watching with interest & may have to start reading up on emigrating!
Fact is a lot of people who didn't vote Tory did it more or the fact that 'Torys are for the rich working class is Labour'.
People like you & me who think it's preposterous in a democratic country for the losers to form a coalition, sell England down the river, to have another unelected leader etc etc. Many just see it as 'the party they voted for getting in' and keeping the Toffs out. That is why I fear that the outrage may not be as sustained as it should be.
Either way I'm watching with interest & may have to start reading up on emigrating!
If this goes through the demonstration in central London will blow the Iraq protest into the weeds!
Never protested in my life but you can bet I'll be there, marching with my family.
I thought it was bad enough that an unelected Brown was in Number 10 for two years believing it to be his turn, It's not a train set Gordon it's a f
king country!
Hopefully when this all works itself out Labour will be out of power for decades, they deserve nothing less.
Never protested in my life but you can bet I'll be there, marching with my family.
I thought it was bad enough that an unelected Brown was in Number 10 for two years believing it to be his turn, It's not a train set Gordon it's a f
king country!Hopefully when this all works itself out Labour will be out of power for decades, they deserve nothing less.
Edited by Flipatron on Tuesday 11th May 08:13
Edited by Flipatron on Tuesday 11th May 08:13
GavinPearson said:
It would make another unelected PM run the country, they (the coalition) will inevitably make the Greek fiasco look like sunshine and lollipops, and the general public will get to see the politicians for who they really are.
What do I think?I think that I wish people would bloody well stop saying "another unelected PM".
You vote for a combination of party/local MP/PM. Anyone who thinks they're voting specifically for the PM obviously thinks that they're in america. We're not.
If we do somehow get a lib/lab coalition, it'll no doubt be ludicrously weak, but when the s
t does hit the fan, they'll definitely be able to blame someone else. Thatcher? Some bunch of euro-types who obviously didn't quite understand the problem, therefore causing a larger worldwide problem ....Flipatron said:
Hopefully when this all works itself out Labour will be out of power for decades, they deserve nothing less.
This will only happen IF the Conservatives can get a proper overall majority and are able to get the constituency boundaries redraws so that they are roughly all the same size in terms of population. Whereupon their larger vote share ought to take effect.But even with this Labour would do pretty well.
I think we are in for the most humoungous summer, though, with strikes and general unpleasantness. This will not work in the favour of an incumbent, weak government easily vulnerable to a vote of no confidence. It would appear that the Tories believe there will be an Autumn election.
clonmult said:
You vote for a combination of party/local MP/PM. Anyone who thinks they're voting specifically for the PM obviously thinks that they're in america. We're not.
However, you vote in part on the basis that the person leading the party will be PM. i.e. you voted Labour to get BLiar in 1997.... It's not as simple as you suggest.
CommanderJameson said:
A LIB/LAB coalition isn't such a thing - it's a LIB/LAB/SNP/PC/SDLP/GRN/ETC coalition, with the tiddlers going "do what we want (which is either regional or insane, hence our minority status) or we're going to vote with the Tories".
John Reid wasn't wrong when he said it was a load of old cock.
Surprise, surprise, when you look at the map of the results, England itself voted predominantly Tory, and sure enough if A LibDem/Lab/Plaid Cymru/SNP alliance gets in we will suffer all of the public services cuts.John Reid wasn't wrong when he said it was a load of old cock.
Jasandjules said:
clonmult said:
You vote for a combination of party/local MP/PM. Anyone who thinks they're voting specifically for the PM obviously thinks that they're in america. We're not.
However, you vote in part on the basis that the person leading the party will be PM. i.e. you voted Labour to get BLiar in 1997.... It's not as simple as you suggest.
Even Gordon f-ing Brown admitted it yesterday.
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