Interview- Harvard Professor talks Debt and decline of West

[amir_j]

Was half asleep last night when I heard this interview at 1 in the morning, but was very interesting so looked it up

Listen here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p007qdv5


This week on Global Business Peter Day is in conversation with Professor Niall Ferguson of Harvard University, historian and author. He tells Peter Day why the world is in debt commensurate with those brought about in World War II and the decline of the economic power of the western world.

Edited by amir_j on Wednesday 26th May 21:54

[FM]

Thanks for the recommendation ...it`s a job to keep up with the sheer volume of good programmes on the network.

[odyssey2200]

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

[Shay HTFC]

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

The East. The interview explains it better, but Asia is hardly being hit as hard compared to us in this crisis. They have a massive population essentially going through an industrial revolution involving high growth and utilization of their man power. Top jobs and businesses are no longer the reserve of the West.

China is effectively building an empire. The amount of investment they are pumping into 3rd world countries around the world is akin to what we were doing at the start of our empire. The difference is that they are gaining power within countries economically, rather than directly through regime change.

You should listen to the interview - its very interesting. We in the West don't have a righteous right to be the leaders of the world. Our competitive advantage is being lost to the East and we are effectively in relative decline (i.e. the East is getting closer to our levels of wealth)

[sjn2004]

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

Exactly.

I've spent several years in Brasil which is currently meant to be one of the countries that's going to take over the world along with China,India and Russia. They currently have a budget surplus but its STILL a screwed up corrupt third world hole.

For 99% of the population.

You lose your job, you starve.

Your ill, you die.

You have an accident, you go to hospital in a taxi. If your lucky an ambulance comes which is just an empty van with no equipment inside.

A car hits you and badly damages your leg...they just cut it off.

Normal people will fight to the death over 50p.

The list is endless.

[Jimbeaux]

amir_j said:

Was half asleep last night when I heard this interview at 1 in the morning, but was very interesting so looked it up

Listen here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p007qdv5


This week on Global Business Peter Day is in conversation with Professor Niall Ferguson of Harvard University, historian and author. He tells Peter Day why the world is in debt commensurate with those brought about in World War II and the decline of the economic power of the western world.

Edited by amir_j on Wednesday 26th May 21:54

Notice he teaches such things instead of does them.

[Jimbeaux]

Shay HTFC said:

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

The East. The interview explains it better, but Asia is hardly being hit as hard compared to us in this crisis. They have a massive population essentially going through an industrial revolution involving high growth and utilization of their man power. Top jobs and businesses are no longer the reserve of the West.

China is effectively building an empire. The amount of investment they are pumping into 3rd world countries around the world is akin to what we were doing at the start of our empire. The difference is that they are gaining power within countries economically, rather than directly through regime change.

You should listen to the interview - its very interesting. We in the West don't have a righteous right to be the leaders of the world. Our competitive advantage is being lost to the East and we are effectively in relative decline (i.e. the East is getting closer to our levels of wealth)

I hope you aren't too happy with that.

[prand]

sjn2004 said:

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

Exactly.

I've spent several years in Brasil which is currently meant to be one of the countries that's going to take over the world along with China,India and Russia. They currently have a budget surplus but its STILL a screwed up corrupt third world hole.

For 99% of the population.

You lose your job, you starve.

Your ill, you die.

You have an accident, you go to hospital in a taxi. If your lucky an ambulance comes which is just an empty van with no equipment inside.

A car hits you and badly damages your leg...they just cut it off.

Normal people will fight to the death over 50p.

The list is endless.

Not that I disagree with you, but the Roman Empire, which was big in global terms 2000-1500 years ago, declined and fell to what were then cultures seen as savages and heathens (GOths, Barbarians and Muslims), who used brute force and cruelty to oust the more "advanced" overlords.

We saw what was desrcribed as the dark ages after the Roman Empire, which in my mind, if we fast forward a couple of millenia, means it's perfectly feasible for what we might think are undeveloped and unsophisticated countries and cultures gaining the edge economically, socially and militarily over us.

[amir_j]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You legal types, always looking for motives

[Shay HTFC]

Jimbeaux said:

Shay HTFC said:

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

The East. The interview explains it better, but Asia is hardly being hit as hard compared to us in this crisis. They have a massive population essentially going through an industrial revolution involving high growth and utilization of their man power. Top jobs and businesses are no longer the reserve of the West.

China is effectively building an empire. The amount of investment they are pumping into 3rd world countries around the world is akin to what we were doing at the start of our empire. The difference is that they are gaining power within countries economically, rather than directly through regime change.

You should listen to the interview - its very interesting. We in the West don't have a righteous right to be the leaders of the world. Our competitive advantage is being lost to the East and we are effectively in relative decline (i.e. the East is getting closer to our levels of wealth)

I hope you aren't too happy with that.

I'm impartial towards it. I will just move East/South/West/North if it becomes appropriate. Times change.

People in the rest of the world are just people the same as we are who can do the same things as us if they have the education which many are now getting. The worth of one hours work of labour by your average Eastern person is also going up. It makes fundamental sense that if they have the ability to do the same things as us, then they will end up earning the same as us in real terms.

Even Rome fell back in the day. The West will not stand forever. Get romantic about the West if you want, but I will get on my bike and go to where the growth is.

[sjn2004]

prand said:

sjn2004 said:

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

Exactly.

I've spent several years in Brasil which is currently meant to be one of the countries that's going to take over the world along with China,India and Russia. They currently have a budget surplus but its STILL a screwed up corrupt third world hole.

For 99% of the population.

You lose your job, you starve.

Your ill, you die.

You have an accident, you go to hospital in a taxi. If your lucky an ambulance comes which is just an empty van with no equipment inside.

A car hits you and badly damages your leg...they just cut it off.

Normal people will fight to the death over 50p.

The list is endless.

Not that I disagree with you, but the Roman Empire, which was big in global terms 2000-1500 years ago, declined and fell to what were then cultures seen as savages and heathens (GOths, Barbarians and Muslims), who used brute force and cruelty to oust the more "advanced" overlords.

We saw what was desrcribed as the dark ages after the Roman Empire, which in my mind, if we fast forward a couple of millenia, means it's perfectly feasible for what we might think are undeveloped and unsophisticated countries and cultures gaining the edge economically, socially and militarily over us.

My point is that Europe spends a fortune on benefits/health/education and foreign aid. Stop all that and our economies won't fall. Of course none of our governments would do such a thing. I'm not saying Brasil is undeveloped/unsophisticated, its just they don't spend money on things we take for granted so don't run a deficit.

[Jimbeaux]

Shay HTFC said:

Jimbeaux said:

Shay HTFC said:

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

The East. The interview explains it better, but Asia is hardly being hit as hard compared to us in this crisis. They have a massive population essentially going through an industrial revolution involving high growth and utilization of their man power. Top jobs and businesses are no longer the reserve of the West.

China is effectively building an empire. The amount of investment they are pumping into 3rd world countries around the world is akin to what we were doing at the start of our empire. The difference is that they are gaining power within countries economically, rather than directly through regime change.

You should listen to the interview - its very interesting. We in the West don't have a righteous right to be the leaders of the world. Our competitive advantage is being lost to the East and we are effectively in relative decline (i.e. the East is getting closer to our levels of wealth)

I hope you aren't too happy with that.

I'm impartial towards it. I will just move East/South/West/North if it becomes appropriate. Times change.

People in the rest of the world are just people the same as we are who can do the same things as us if they have the education which many are now getting. The worth of one hours work of labour by your average Eastern person is also going up. It makes fundamental sense that if they have the ability to do the same things as us, then they will end up earning the same as us in real terms.

Even Rome fell back in the day. The West will not stand forever. Get romantic about the West if you want, but I will get on my bike and go to where the growth is.

You are very quick to assume they will accept you. That's what's romantic.

[Carfiend]

If China takes over at least the food will get better.

[HCMH]

Carfiend said:

If China takes over at least the food will get better.

? They churn out the worst food on the planet. They think Bear Grylls is a gourmet cooking show. IMHO of course, food is subjective after all.

[Carfiend]

Wait you mean it isn't all Prawn Crackers and Chicken Chowmein? Have I been lied too all these years? Damn you!

[Olf]

22nd November 1859:

Bloke 1: Have you seen that interview with Charles Darwin?

Bloke 2: Nah - not bothering with that - he's just touting his new book.


Seriously - Such cynicism sounds informed but time will tell.

[amir_j]

radio 4 just now: Brazil is growing 5% each year and poised to overtake France and Britain in not so distant future.

[Olf]

amir_j said:

radio 4 just now: Brazil is growing 5% each year and poised to overtake France and Britain in not so distant future.

When you say overtake - what do you mean?

[Eric Mc]

prand said:

sjn2004 said:

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

Exactly.

I've spent several years in Brasil which is currently meant to be one of the countries that's going to take over the world along with China,India and Russia. They currently have a budget surplus but its STILL a screwed up corrupt third world hole.

For 99% of the population.

You lose your job, you starve.

Your ill, you die.

You have an accident, you go to hospital in a taxi. If your lucky an ambulance comes which is just an empty van with no equipment inside.

A car hits you and badly damages your leg...they just cut it off.

Normal people will fight to the death over 50p.

The list is endless.

Not that I disagree with you, but the Roman Empire, which was big in global terms 2000-1500 years ago, declined and fell to what were then cultures seen as savages and heathens (GOths, Barbarians and Muslims), who used brute force and cruelty to oust the more "advanced" overlords.

We saw what was desrcribed as the dark ages after the Roman Empire, which in my mind, if we fast forward a couple of millenia, means it's perfectly feasible for what we might think are undeveloped and unsophisticated countries and cultures gaining the edge economically, socially and militarily over us.

The so called decline of the Roman Empire and the entry into "Dark Ages" is a very western view of what happened at that time. We tend to see the world from a Roman point of view that everybody who wasn't within their Empire were barbarians - when in fact, the Romans, in lots of respect, were as barbarian as the rest.

In fact, after Rome lost its influence (although it did retain much influence in other areas - such as the newly established Christian church) science and technology, maths and medecine continued to develop in other parts of the world, such as India, China and the Islamic world. Much of that new knowledge base which had expanded in the so called "Dark Ages" was introduced into the west during the Renaissance period.

I do not think that the West is in decline from a technology and science point of view. I still think that the western way of thinking freely (established during the Renaissance) is still the best atmosphere for knowledge and science to grow. What will probably happen is that Eastern culture will gradually adopt a more Western approach (we are seeing this in much of the Far East already).

[Bing o]

Jimbeaux said:

Shay HTFC said:

odyssey2200 said:

amir_j said:

the decline of the economic power of the western world.

to be replaced by what?

The East. The interview explains it better, but Asia is hardly being hit as hard compared to us in this crisis. They have a massive population essentially going through an industrial revolution involving high growth and utilization of their man power. Top jobs and businesses are no longer the reserve of the West.

China is effectively building an empire. The amount of investment they are pumping into 3rd world countries around the world is akin to what we were doing at the start of our empire. The difference is that they are gaining power within countries economically, rather than directly through regime change.

You should listen to the interview - its very interesting. We in the West don't have a righteous right to be the leaders of the world. Our competitive advantage is being lost to the East and we are effectively in relative decline (i.e. the East is getting closer to our levels of wealth)

I hope you aren't too happy with that.

White is right ain't it Jim? Can't have the slitty eyes in charge can we?

On a more general point - the East relies on Western demand at the moment - without that, a lot of the prosperity dries up.