Which to short, Ocado or Rightmove?
Discussion
Following on from my riches laying the England win, I am going to have a flutter on one of these two.
Ocado: Yet to make an operating profit, will they survive the competition?
Rightmove: Been reading about Google's free upcoming offering, how will Rightmove be able to continue with current charging strategy?
Thoughts appreciated.
Ocado: Yet to make an operating profit, will they survive the competition?
Rightmove: Been reading about Google's free upcoming offering, how will Rightmove be able to continue with current charging strategy?
Thoughts appreciated.
johnfm said:
How has rightmove coped with globrix?
Very well it would seem - however, not sure how much backing Globrix has.Front page of City AM
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/ocado-floa...
I wouldn't buy rightmove (to much of an amateur for this shorting lark).
Jun 21, 2010:
Rightmove managing director Ed Williams has sold nearly 1% of the estate agency for just short of £8m.
Williams was the founder of the rightmove.co.uk website that formed the basis of the group. He has sold nearly 1.14m shares at 699.9325p each. That leaves Williams with 1.1% of Rightmove. The imminent increase in the rate of capital gains tax may have been in his mind when he decided to sell.
The disposal was made last Friday ahead of today's announcement of house price inflation figures by Rightmove. The annual rate of house price inflation picked up from 4.3% to 5%, but Rightmove expects this to ease back as conditions get tougher later in the year.
Sellers and tenants face tougher times as deficit reduction measures, such as the rumoured CGT increase, disrupt the fragile housing recovery, it said.
Rightmove's commercial director Miles Shipside added that a continued dearth of mortgage availability and a recent surge in sellers will also knock confidence.
"These factors are likely to put an end to this year's recovery in house prices," Shipside said.
source
Jun 21, 2010:
Rightmove managing director Ed Williams has sold nearly 1% of the estate agency for just short of £8m.
Williams was the founder of the rightmove.co.uk website that formed the basis of the group. He has sold nearly 1.14m shares at 699.9325p each. That leaves Williams with 1.1% of Rightmove. The imminent increase in the rate of capital gains tax may have been in his mind when he decided to sell.
The disposal was made last Friday ahead of today's announcement of house price inflation figures by Rightmove. The annual rate of house price inflation picked up from 4.3% to 5%, but Rightmove expects this to ease back as conditions get tougher later in the year.
Sellers and tenants face tougher times as deficit reduction measures, such as the rumoured CGT increase, disrupt the fragile housing recovery, it said.
Rightmove's commercial director Miles Shipside added that a continued dearth of mortgage availability and a recent surge in sellers will also knock confidence.
"These factors are likely to put an end to this year's recovery in house prices," Shipside said.
source
So Goldman Sachs get a massive amount for underwriting the share issue etc, for floating a company, that has never made a profit, founded by their former employees, who are also set to make hundreds of Milions from this deal. Also the owners of Ocados partner business, through their pension scheme, are going to be offloading their shareholding as well. It seems, somehow people are prepared to pay good money, probably other peoples pension money, for shares in this business at the very moment when those closest to it seem keen to distance themselves from it financially. You have to wonder why people are quite so cynical about the machinations of the city don't you?
It seems Tesco can make the grocery delivery business pay, but they are an order of magnitude up the food chain in that sector. The cynical part of me says Ocado was only created to distance itself from Waitrose/John Lewis when it did fail eventually, and to make money for it's founders when it could be tarted up and flogged on.
With regrds to Rightmove, it seems natural that their high level of current profitability is unsustainable, though they do what they are supposed to do quite well. Given some of the vested intrests I think Google might struggle to depose them. You also have to remember that Google aren't hesitant to rollback things which don't really work for them.
It seems Tesco can make the grocery delivery business pay, but they are an order of magnitude up the food chain in that sector. The cynical part of me says Ocado was only created to distance itself from Waitrose/John Lewis when it did fail eventually, and to make money for it's founders when it could be tarted up and flogged on.
With regrds to Rightmove, it seems natural that their high level of current profitability is unsustainable, though they do what they are supposed to do quite well. Given some of the vested intrests I think Google might struggle to depose them. You also have to remember that Google aren't hesitant to rollback things which don't really work for them.
The google property portal is appalling, utterly crap. It's just their mappping service with property particulars shoe-horned in rather amateurishly. We were very disappointed when looking at the Australian version of this service last year,
I had very high expectations for it. I was hoping that it would annihilate rightmove entirely, but it won't. Rightmove takes the piss on its agency fees. For instance they charge £50 per month per branch to get your logo appearing in the search results next to your properties! So I was chuffed initially to hear of google's plans, as I had hoped it would force rightmove to become more competitive.
Alas, it is unlikely to make much of an impact whenever it launches here, but I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
Didn't rightmove start using google maps shortly after the Aus launch, as some sort of damage limitation exercise?
I had very high expectations for it. I was hoping that it would annihilate rightmove entirely, but it won't. Rightmove takes the piss on its agency fees. For instance they charge £50 per month per branch to get your logo appearing in the search results next to your properties! So I was chuffed initially to hear of google's plans, as I had hoped it would force rightmove to become more competitive.
Alas, it is unlikely to make much of an impact whenever it launches here, but I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
Didn't rightmove start using google maps shortly after the Aus launch, as some sort of damage limitation exercise?
Edited by bonsai on Friday 25th June 10:46
A cheap online estate agency service is being launched with the backing of the Tesco supermarket group.
The estate agency Spicerhaart is launching the new website iSold.com, initially aimed at sellers and buyers in the Bristol area.
Tesco will advertise the service to users of its own website.
The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) recently called for the establishment of more innovative online estate agency services to help drive down prices.
"We are offering a full estate agency service without the High Street presence," said Steve Shore of iSold.
Flat fee
The online service will have two key features.
All dealings with both sellers and buyers will be conducted online or via the phone, with the overall business being kept separate from the Spicerhaart outlets in the High Street.
And instead of the standard estate agency fees, of between 1.5% to 2% of the selling price, a basic online selling service will cost £999.
As well as being advertised on the iSold website, homes for sale will also be advertised on property portals such as Rightmove and Zoopla.
Neither iSold nor Tesco would divulge the nature of the commercial agreement between them.
Tesco pointed out it already had a similar link up with the flower selling service Interflora.
'New business'
In 2007, Tesco briefly launched an online property selling business called Tesco Property Market, which allowed personal sellers to by-pass estate agents.
In return for a standard £199 charge the sellers were able to advertise their own homes for sale and put up a Tesco notice board outside their homes.
However, this meant that Tesco was deemed to be offering estate agency services and it quickly decided it could not make money if it had to comply with the requirements of the estate agency and property mis-description laws.
After just four months the business was sold in 2008 to Spicerhaart, though Mr Shore said the old business had not simply been rebranded and relaunched.
"This is a new business," he said. "We have carried out detailed financial analysis, to ensure it will work."
"We have been looking at it for some time, developing the IT behind it, and the property market is now picking up," he added.
Competitive pressure
Last month, the OFT called for the injection of greater competition into the estate agency business to help drive down prices.
Its main recommendation was that sellers should haggle with estate agents to agree a lower fee than the typical 2% that is often charged.
But the regulator also called on the government to change the law to make it easier for people to set up online home selling services, especially those aimed at people who wanted to sell their own homes themselves rather than pay an agent to do it for them.
"Encouraging new business models, online estate agents and private seller platforms could put useful competitive pressure on traditional models and lead to better value for buyers and sellers," said John Fingleton, chief executive of the OFT, when launching its report.
At the moment, online-only estate agents account for only 2% of all property sales in the UK, compared with 15% in the USA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8549789.stm
The estate agency Spicerhaart is launching the new website iSold.com, initially aimed at sellers and buyers in the Bristol area.
Tesco will advertise the service to users of its own website.
The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) recently called for the establishment of more innovative online estate agency services to help drive down prices.
"We are offering a full estate agency service without the High Street presence," said Steve Shore of iSold.
Flat fee
The online service will have two key features.
All dealings with both sellers and buyers will be conducted online or via the phone, with the overall business being kept separate from the Spicerhaart outlets in the High Street.
And instead of the standard estate agency fees, of between 1.5% to 2% of the selling price, a basic online selling service will cost £999.
As well as being advertised on the iSold website, homes for sale will also be advertised on property portals such as Rightmove and Zoopla.
Neither iSold nor Tesco would divulge the nature of the commercial agreement between them.
Tesco pointed out it already had a similar link up with the flower selling service Interflora.
'New business'
In 2007, Tesco briefly launched an online property selling business called Tesco Property Market, which allowed personal sellers to by-pass estate agents.
In return for a standard £199 charge the sellers were able to advertise their own homes for sale and put up a Tesco notice board outside their homes.
However, this meant that Tesco was deemed to be offering estate agency services and it quickly decided it could not make money if it had to comply with the requirements of the estate agency and property mis-description laws.
After just four months the business was sold in 2008 to Spicerhaart, though Mr Shore said the old business had not simply been rebranded and relaunched.
"This is a new business," he said. "We have carried out detailed financial analysis, to ensure it will work."
"We have been looking at it for some time, developing the IT behind it, and the property market is now picking up," he added.
Competitive pressure
Last month, the OFT called for the injection of greater competition into the estate agency business to help drive down prices.
Its main recommendation was that sellers should haggle with estate agents to agree a lower fee than the typical 2% that is often charged.
But the regulator also called on the government to change the law to make it easier for people to set up online home selling services, especially those aimed at people who wanted to sell their own homes themselves rather than pay an agent to do it for them.
"Encouraging new business models, online estate agents and private seller platforms could put useful competitive pressure on traditional models and lead to better value for buyers and sellers," said John Fingleton, chief executive of the OFT, when launching its report.
At the moment, online-only estate agents account for only 2% of all property sales in the UK, compared with 15% in the USA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8549789.stm
bonsai said:
The google property portal is appalling, utterly crap. It's just their mappping service with property particulars shoe-horned in rather amateurishly. We were very disappointed when looking at the Australian version of this service last year,
Surely something that can be fixed with enough money thrown at it?Edited by bonsai on Friday 25th June 10:46
Fittster said:
A cheap online estate agency service is being launched with the backing of the Tesco supermarket group.
The estate agency Spicerhaart is launching the new website iSold.com, initially aimed at sellers and buyers in the Bristol area.
Tesco will advertise the service to users of its own website.
The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) recently called for the establishment of more innovative online estate agency services to help drive down prices.
"We are offering a full estate agency service without the High Street presence," said Steve Shore of iSold.
Flat fee
The online service will have two key features.
All dealings with both sellers and buyers will be conducted online or via the phone, with the overall business being kept separate from the Spicerhaart outlets in the High Street.
And instead of the standard estate agency fees, of between 1.5% to 2% of the selling price, a basic online selling service will cost £999.
As well as being advertised on the iSold website, homes for sale will also be advertised on property portals such as Rightmove and Zoopla.
Neither iSold nor Tesco would divulge the nature of the commercial agreement between them.
Tesco pointed out it already had a similar link up with the flower selling service Interflora.
'New business'
In 2007, Tesco briefly launched an online property selling business called Tesco Property Market, which allowed personal sellers to by-pass estate agents.
In return for a standard £199 charge the sellers were able to advertise their own homes for sale and put up a Tesco notice board outside their homes.
However, this meant that Tesco was deemed to be offering estate agency services and it quickly decided it could not make money if it had to comply with the requirements of the estate agency and property mis-description laws.
After just four months the business was sold in 2008 to Spicerhaart, though Mr Shore said the old business had not simply been rebranded and relaunched.
"This is a new business," he said. "We have carried out detailed financial analysis, to ensure it will work."
"We have been looking at it for some time, developing the IT behind it, and the property market is now picking up," he added.
Competitive pressure
Last month, the OFT called for the injection of greater competition into the estate agency business to help drive down prices.
Its main recommendation was that sellers should haggle with estate agents to agree a lower fee than the typical 2% that is often charged.
But the regulator also called on the government to change the law to make it easier for people to set up online home selling services, especially those aimed at people who wanted to sell their own homes themselves rather than pay an agent to do it for them.
"Encouraging new business models, online estate agents and private seller platforms could put useful competitive pressure on traditional models and lead to better value for buyers and sellers," said John Fingleton, chief executive of the OFT, when launching its report.
At the moment, online-only estate agents account for only 2% of all property sales in the UK, compared with 15% in the USA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8549789.stm
These guys have been doing that for a while. A 'minimalistic' service, but it gets you onto Rightmove.The estate agency Spicerhaart is launching the new website iSold.com, initially aimed at sellers and buyers in the Bristol area.
Tesco will advertise the service to users of its own website.
The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) recently called for the establishment of more innovative online estate agency services to help drive down prices.
"We are offering a full estate agency service without the High Street presence," said Steve Shore of iSold.
Flat fee
The online service will have two key features.
All dealings with both sellers and buyers will be conducted online or via the phone, with the overall business being kept separate from the Spicerhaart outlets in the High Street.
And instead of the standard estate agency fees, of between 1.5% to 2% of the selling price, a basic online selling service will cost £999.
As well as being advertised on the iSold website, homes for sale will also be advertised on property portals such as Rightmove and Zoopla.
Neither iSold nor Tesco would divulge the nature of the commercial agreement between them.
Tesco pointed out it already had a similar link up with the flower selling service Interflora.
'New business'
In 2007, Tesco briefly launched an online property selling business called Tesco Property Market, which allowed personal sellers to by-pass estate agents.
In return for a standard £199 charge the sellers were able to advertise their own homes for sale and put up a Tesco notice board outside their homes.
However, this meant that Tesco was deemed to be offering estate agency services and it quickly decided it could not make money if it had to comply with the requirements of the estate agency and property mis-description laws.
After just four months the business was sold in 2008 to Spicerhaart, though Mr Shore said the old business had not simply been rebranded and relaunched.
"This is a new business," he said. "We have carried out detailed financial analysis, to ensure it will work."
"We have been looking at it for some time, developing the IT behind it, and the property market is now picking up," he added.
Competitive pressure
Last month, the OFT called for the injection of greater competition into the estate agency business to help drive down prices.
Its main recommendation was that sellers should haggle with estate agents to agree a lower fee than the typical 2% that is often charged.
But the regulator also called on the government to change the law to make it easier for people to set up online home selling services, especially those aimed at people who wanted to sell their own homes themselves rather than pay an agent to do it for them.
"Encouraging new business models, online estate agents and private seller platforms could put useful competitive pressure on traditional models and lead to better value for buyers and sellers," said John Fingleton, chief executive of the OFT, when launching its report.
At the moment, online-only estate agents account for only 2% of all property sales in the UK, compared with 15% in the USA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8549789.stm
(I think many people don't realise that you HAVE to use an agent to get on rightmove, so there IS a makret out there for people who JUST want to get on right move and so simply desire a very 'light weight' estate agent service.)
http://www.housenetwork.co.uk/
NoelWatson said:
bonsai said:
The google property portal is appalling, utterly crap. It's just their mappping service with property particulars shoe-horned in rather amateurishly. We were very disappointed when looking at the Australian version of this service last year,
Surely something that can be fixed with enough money thrown at it?Edited by bonsai on Friday 25th June 10:46
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/07/06/279216/...
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/ocado-sets...
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/ocado-sets...
Edited by NoelWatson on Tuesday 6th July 12:41
Ocado will fall dramatically when the public at large realise it is not infact Waitrose and they can order their Waitrose groceries directly online at at much less cost.
Plus I'd imagine Waitrose will push their own home delivery service a bit more when they've sold of their 28% stake. Therefore no UPS and no brand.
Plus I'd imagine Waitrose will push their own home delivery service a bit more when they've sold of their 28% stake. Therefore no UPS and no brand.
Edited by OneDs on Tuesday 6th July 14:54
I wouldn't be so down on Ocado, it has a lot of potential.
Proctor & Gamble have a share so in theory the Ocado vans can start making deliveries of P&G product as well as delivering groceries. Except a storefront doesn't have to be paid for so there is a lot of profit potential.
There is no reason that Ocado can't do deals with other FMCG manufacturers.
Ocado may be tied to Waitrose right now but they could just as easily set up their own virtual retail outlet sellng branded foods such as Kelloggs Corn Flakes & Birds Eye Frozen Peas if that's what people want.
Proctor & Gamble have a share so in theory the Ocado vans can start making deliveries of P&G product as well as delivering groceries. Except a storefront doesn't have to be paid for so there is a lot of profit potential.
There is no reason that Ocado can't do deals with other FMCG manufacturers.
Ocado may be tied to Waitrose right now but they could just as easily set up their own virtual retail outlet sellng branded foods such as Kelloggs Corn Flakes & Birds Eye Frozen Peas if that's what people want.
GavinPearson said:
Ocado may be tied to Waitrose right now but they could just as easily set up their own virtual retail outlet sellng branded foods such as Kelloggs Corn Flakes & Birds Eye Frozen Peas if that's what people want.
You've heard of Webvan right? No? didn't think so.....there's a reason! Check it out & you'll see Ocado has the making of another Webvan.GT03ROB said:
GavinPearson said:
Ocado may be tied to Waitrose right now but they could just as easily set up their own virtual retail outlet sellng branded foods such as Kelloggs Corn Flakes & Birds Eye Frozen Peas if that's what people want.
You've heard of Webvan right? No? didn't think so.....there's a reason! Check it out & you'll see Ocado has the making of another Webvan.
The big question with Ocado for me is: Why now?
The markets are extremely lacking in confidence, IPO activity is very low and the company has never made a pre-tax profit, but is expected to next year.
So, why not list next year?
My cynical side tells me that it's because everyone involved knows the hype surrounding it is overblown and that it won't achieve its projections, so now is the best time to get out.
The fact that they're going cap in hand to their own employees whilst some of the directors and existing shareholders bail out also concerns me.
The markets are extremely lacking in confidence, IPO activity is very low and the company has never made a pre-tax profit, but is expected to next year.
So, why not list next year?
My cynical side tells me that it's because everyone involved knows the hype surrounding it is overblown and that it won't achieve its projections, so now is the best time to get out.
The fact that they're going cap in hand to their own employees whilst some of the directors and existing shareholders bail out also concerns me.
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