Ken Clark - Prison doesn't work

[Wanta996Gotta]

Is this the Liberals making the Tories look even more clueless on the reality of whats going on as each week goes by? He was on the Radio this morning explaining this idea saying that you could put them into "unpaid" work? This is almost as ridiculous as the recent IDS plan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1290715/Ke...

[andymadmak]

Wanta996Gotta said:

Is this the Liberals making the Tories look even more clueless on the reality of whats going on as each week goes by? He was on the Radio this morning explaining this idea saying that you could put them into "unpaid" work? This is almost as ridiculous as the recent IDS plan.

That's more than just a slight misrepresentation of what he was saying on the Radio this morning!

I think his points were:

Prison population had doubled in the last 20 years
Crime has continued to rise though, especially violent crime
Reoffending rates are as bad as ever, if not worse.
We must find a way to reduce reoffending rates
Prison should be there for serious crime, (violence etc)
Jailing people for not paying the ordered level of maintenance to ex wife in a bitter divorce battle involving the CSA, or jailing people for non dangerous traffic offenses is not a good use of prison space
Letting violent offenders out early just cos the jails are full (a la Nu Labour) is not on
Community sentences for non violent/non serious crimes should be made to work better for the community and may help to reduce recidivism
A more creative approach to the whole question of sentencing needs to be explored

As you were

[V88Dicky]

Can't see what the problem is with introducing 'chain gang' style work for criminals. The US Government makes a lot of money by employing convicts for work on state projects.

[Fittster]

Typical lying politician.

We have run out of money and can't afford to put people in prison.

[Wanta996Gotta]

andymadmak said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

Is this the Liberals making the Tories look even more clueless on the reality of whats going on as each week goes by? He was on the Radio this morning explaining this idea saying that you could put them into "unpaid" work? This is almost as ridiculous as the recent IDS plan.

That's more than just a slight misrepresentation of what he was saying on the Radio this morning!

I think his points were:

Prison population had doubled in the last 20 years
Crime has continued to rise though, especially violent crime
Reoffending rates are as bad as ever, if not worse.
We must find a way to reduce reoffending rates
Prison should be there for serious crime, (violence etc)
Jailing people for not paying the ordered level of maintenance to ex wife in a bitter divorce battle involving the CSA, or jailing people for non dangerous traffic offenses is not a good use of prison space
Letting violent offenders out early just cos the jails are full (a la Nu Labour) is not on
Community sentences for non violent/non serious crimes should be made to work better for the community and may help to reduce recidivism
A more creative approach to the whole question of sentencing needs to be explored

As you were

A more creative approach to the whole question of sentencing needs to be explored means what exactly? And he did suggest on Radio this morning that one of his ideas is to put criminals in un-paid work.

As you were

[Phil1]

Wanta996Gotta said:

andymadmak said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

Is this the Liberals making the Tories look even more clueless on the reality of whats going on as each week goes by? He was on the Radio this morning explaining this idea saying that you could put them into "unpaid" work? This is almost as ridiculous as the recent IDS plan.

That's more than just a slight misrepresentation of what he was saying on the Radio this morning!

I think his points were:

Prison population had doubled in the last 20 years
Crime has continued to rise though, especially violent crime
Reoffending rates are as bad as ever, if not worse.
We must find a way to reduce reoffending rates
Prison should be there for serious crime, (violence etc)
Jailing people for not paying the ordered level of maintenance to ex wife in a bitter divorce battle involving the CSA, or jailing people for non dangerous traffic offenses is not a good use of prison space
Letting violent offenders out early just cos the jails are full (a la Nu Labour) is not on
Community sentences for non violent/non serious crimes should be made to work better for the community and may help to reduce recidivism
A more creative approach to the whole question of sentencing needs to be explored

As you were

A more creative approach to the whole question of sentencing needs to be explored means what exactly? And he did suggest on Radio this morning that one of his ideas is to put criminals in un-paid work.

As you were

...and you don't like criminals doing unpaid work, earning their keep because? Are you saying that free Sky TV and 23 hours locked in a cell is better?

[mondeoman]

I thought one of the interviewees comments were sound - lock serial offenders up for longer to give more time to rehabilitate them: sounds like a good idea to me - 1 month behind bars doesn't do much really to get them off drugs and to change their attitude.

I heard once from a local copper that if they were allowed to take about 5 - 10 well-known crims off the streets in every town, the crime rate would fall dramatically overnight. I know some others would then potentially fill that "vacuum", but could be worth a shot.

[Wanta996Gotta]

Phil1 said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

andymadmak said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

Is this the Liberals making the Tories look even more clueless on the reality of whats going on as each week goes by? He was on the Radio this morning explaining this idea saying that you could put them into "unpaid" work? This is almost as ridiculous as the recent IDS plan.

That's more than just a slight misrepresentation of what he was saying on the Radio this morning!

I think his points were:

Prison population had doubled in the last 20 years
Crime has continued to rise though, especially violent crime
Reoffending rates are as bad as ever, if not worse.
We must find a way to reduce reoffending rates
Prison should be there for serious crime, (violence etc)
Jailing people for not paying the ordered level of maintenance to ex wife in a bitter divorce battle involving the CSA, or jailing people for non dangerous traffic offenses is not a good use of prison space
Letting violent offenders out early just cos the jails are full (a la Nu Labour) is not on
Community sentences for non violent/non serious crimes should be made to work better for the community and may help to reduce recidivism
A more creative approach to the whole question of sentencing needs to be explored

As you were

A more creative approach to the whole question of sentencing needs to be explored means what exactly? And he did suggest on Radio this morning that one of his ideas is to put criminals in un-paid work.

As you were

...and you don't like criminals doing unpaid work, earning their keep because? Are you saying that free Sky TV and 23 hours locked in a cell is better?

What serial criminal is going to do un-paid work? And what you going to do with them when they dont turn up for work?

Its like Gideons plan to eradicate the long term sick and put them into employment as they are cutting jobs. IDS's ingenious plan of asking the unemployed to move a whole 15 miles to look for work should win him a prize.

[Deva Link]

Fittster said:

We have run out of money and can't afford to put people in prison.

They should be put them in Travelodges. The ones in motorway service areas. That'll teach the fkers.
And it would be cheaper, especially if they get the £19 room deals.

[dandarez]

Some of his comments were sound.
But the problem is not that prisons don't work, it's also that our prisons are no longer 'prisons', they are more like 'hotels'!

Take the multiple Essex boys killer who was awarded over 40 grand cos he suffered toothache during his stretch. 40k! That's a pools win to many.

No, it's 'us' on the outside, who in reality, are in prison!

We do all the graft and get little reward.

Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 30th June 10:25

[Greenie]

Genius quote from Ken.

Ken Clarke said:

Criticising the increase of the prison population under Labour, he added: "David Blunkett and John Reid had a chequebook in one hand and a copy of the Daily Mail in the other."

[Sheets Tabuer]

There is no fear of prison anymore, there is a bed, 3 meals a day, banter with mates and a playstation + TV in your room.

For most of the low life in there it offers a better lifestyle than the outside world.

[Fittster]

Greenie said:

Genius quote from Ken.

Ken Clarke said:

Criticising the increase of the prison population under Labour, he added: "David Blunkett and John Reid had a chequebook in one hand and a copy of the Daily Mail in the other."

Old fool's memory must be going if he doesn't remember the huge rise in the prison population actually started during the last conservative government.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=110...

[10 Pence Short]

mondeoman said:

I thought one of the interviewees comments were sound - lock serial offenders up for longer to give more time to rehabilitate them: sounds like a good idea to me - 1 month behind bars doesn't do much really to get them off drugs and to change their attitude.

I heard once from a local copper that if they were allowed to take about 5 - 10 well-known crims off the streets in every town, the crime rate would fall dramatically overnight. I know some others would then potentially fill that "vacuum", but could be worth a shot.

I agree with both.

Labour focused far too much on the punishment element and ignored the rehabilitation side almost completely.

It's not enough to give season prison goers another 6 week jaunt inside; they don't learn from it and they don't leave any more equipped to change than when they went in. It's not left wing or namby pamby to suggest when people are locked up, they are educated and provided with tools to solve the cause of the problem. Yes, treat the symptoms (by handing down punishment), but don't ignore the cause, which should be treated be rehabilitation.

The 'right wing' upside to this aim is that offenders will need to spend longer in prison to get benefit from the rehabilitation. The downside is that the cost rockets.

The half way house, that treats the cause but without as much cost, is to take the rehabilitation outside of the prison walls and use it in the community. Whilst probably not as effective, it is better than spending all that money simply locking people up for a short while to rot without any thought to changing the offending behaviour.

[Wanta996Gotta]

Sheets Tabuer said:

There is no fear of prison anymore, there is a bed, 3 meals a day, banter with mates and a playstation + TV in your room.

For most of the low life in there it offers a better lifestyle than the outside world.

So you would rather Paedo's,Murderers and Rapists roaming our streets? I dont give a toss if Prison is like the Park Lane Hilton as long as they are off our streets.

[Wanta996Gotta]

Fittster said:

Greenie said:

Genius quote from Ken.

Ken Clarke said:

Criticising the increase of the prison population under Labour, he added: "David Blunkett and John Reid had a chequebook in one hand and a copy of the Daily Mail in the other."

Old fool's memory must be going if he doesn't remember the huge rise in the prison population actually started during the last conservative government.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=110...

It was Howard that kicked it off at the time with the "Prison Works" speech. Labour kept this going but tried to look like they were tougher on crime than the Tories so the rate rose even higher.

The news report stated that it costs £30k a year to keep them in jail.

[Fittster]

Wanta996Gotta said:

Fittster said:

Greenie said:

Genius quote from Ken.

Ken Clarke said:

Criticising the increase of the prison population under Labour, he added: "David Blunkett and John Reid had a chequebook in one hand and a copy of the Daily Mail in the other."

Old fool's memory must be going if he doesn't remember the huge rise in the prison population actually started during the last conservative government.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=110...

It was Howard that kicked it off at the time with the "Prison Works" speech. Labour kept this going but tried to look like they were tougher on crime than the Tories so the rate rose even higher.

The news report stated that it costs £30k a year to keep them in jail.

Maybe with the government about to cut the number of police officers, there will be less convictions and hence a reduced need for prison places.

Good budget savings there.

[Sheets Tabuer]

Wanta996Gotta said:

So you would rather Paedo's,Murderers and Rapists roaming our streets? I dont give a toss if Prison is like the Park Lane Hilton as long as they are off our streets.

Where did I say that?

What I am saying is there are numerous young men in there who are offered a better and more predictable lifestyle inside than they are outside. Most of them on the outside live in a world where they run out of cash mid week (through their own fault)and resort to crime to supplement their lifestyle.

Bring back the fear of prison because at the moment there is no fear of it, they know by the end of the week they will still be fed, they know they will still have the TV to watch or the playstation to play, many see it is a break from real life not a place to fear.

The average burglar should not have the luxury of robbing all that people have then spending three months playing games to keep them quiet.

[The real Apache]

I saw a documentary about career crims, one said "On the streets I am a nobody, in here I am somebody" it's no threat whatsoever to them and possibly a badge of honour just being there to some

[ringram]

Prison is pointless, recidivism is high.

I vote for random selection of repeat offenders and summary execution on a weekly basis.