Ken Clark - Prison doesn't work
Discussion
Sheets Tabuer said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
So you would rather Paedo's,Murderers and Rapists roaming our streets? I dont give a toss if Prison is like the Park Lane Hilton as long as they are off our streets.
Where did I say that?What I am saying is there are numerous young men in there who are offered a better and more predictable lifestyle inside than they are outside. Most of them on the outside live in a world where they run out of cash mid week (through their own fault)and resort to crime to supplement their lifestyle.
Bring back the fear of prison because at the moment there is no fear of it, they know by the end of the week they will still be fed, they know they will still have the TV to watch or the playstation to play, many see it is a break from real life not a place to fear.
The average burglar should not have the luxury of robbing all that people have then spending three months playing games to keep them quiet.
Hard labour,breaking bricks or dare i say even "Sloshing Out" would probably not pass the Human rights legislations.
P.S. Sloshing out was actually banned in Scotland a few years ago due to some human rights act.
Phil1 said:
...and you don't like criminals doing unpaid work, earning their keep because? Are you saying that free Sky TV and 23 hours locked in a cell is better?
Absolutely agree. It makes zero sense keeping most of those clowns in prison at a cost around £40,000 per prisoner per year. There has to be a better, more constructive and more cost-effective way of dealing with most offenders.Accepted - the terminally stupid and chronically violent will still need to be locked up.
All these objects are given to them to keep them quiet rather than have the appropriate number of prison officers, they are being given a holiday to keep them quiet and the public to a certain extent who just want them to be locked up.
I'd rather they were put to work or educated inside so they either pay their debt or be educated out of the mindset/gutter.
I'd rather they were put to work or educated inside so they either pay their debt or be educated out of the mindset/gutter.
Wanta996Gotta said:
Phil1 said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
andymadmak said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
Is this the Liberals making the Tories look even more clueless on the reality of whats going on as each week goes by? He was on the Radio this morning explaining this idea saying that you could put them into "unpaid" work? This is almost as ridiculous as the recent IDS plan.
That's more than just a slight misrepresentation of what he was saying on the Radio this morning!I think his points were:
Prison population had doubled in the last 20 years
Crime has continued to rise though, especially violent crime
Reoffending rates are as bad as ever, if not worse.
We must find a way to reduce reoffending rates
Prison should be there for serious crime, (violence etc)
Jailing people for not paying the ordered level of maintenance to ex wife in a bitter divorce battle involving the CSA, or jailing people for non dangerous traffic offenses is not a good use of prison space
Letting violent offenders out early just cos the jails are full (a la Nu Labour) is not on
Community sentences for non violent/non serious crimes should be made to work better for the community and may help to reduce recidivism
A more creative approach to the whole question of sentencing needs to be explored
As you were
As you were
Its like Gideons plan to eradicate the long term sick and put them into employment as they are cutting jobs. IDS's ingenious plan of asking the unemployed to move a whole 15 miles to look for work should win him a prize.
1) Make prison life so brain-numbingly boring that a few hours light work a day appears to be a welcome break.
2) Reward those criminals who work: more fags, visitor rights, conjugal visits, more playstation time, even reduced sentences.
I also believe that Ken Clarke has a point, it's a waste not to make these people contribute something back to society.
Fittster said:
ringram said:
Prison is pointless, recidivism is high.
I vote for random selection of repeat offenders and summary execution on a weekly basis.
Other forms of punishment are generally no better and while someone is in prison they aren't causing problems for the general populationI vote for random selection of repeat offenders and summary execution on a weekly basis.
Sheets Tabuer said:
All these objects are given to them to keep them quiet rather than have the appropriate number of prison officers, they are being given a holiday to keep them quiet and the public to a certain extent who just want them to be locked up.
I'd rather they were put to work or educated inside so they either pay their debt or be educated out of the mindset/gutter.
People inside are only able to have things like Playstations if they buy them themselves (apart from the odd occasional one available to share between 40 odd prisoners during the 45 minute wing association during the day). To be able to buy one, they typically have to build up their regime to 'Enhanced', which takes a number of weeks of excellent behaviour and approval by prison staff. Then you are only allowed to spend about £20-£30 a week from your prison bank account, so you have to save up. When you add the three together, a prisoner on a relatively short term sentence will not be able to get a Playstation even if they could afford one.I'd rather they were put to work or educated inside so they either pay their debt or be educated out of the mindset/gutter.
One solution to the prison problems would be
1) capital punishment for rape, premeditated murder, treason
2) hard labour, and I mean hard, breaking rocks, chain gang etc for others
3)remove all priveliges, TV books etc. They should be soo tired at the end of the day all they can do is sleep
REMEMBER Prison is for PUNISHMENT, NOT courses on a future criminal career, lets get away from this namby-pamby liberalistic "poor little criminal had a bad childhood" standpoint and PUNISh them for their crimes...
Military prison on the lines of The Hill would be a start.......
1) capital punishment for rape, premeditated murder, treason
2) hard labour, and I mean hard, breaking rocks, chain gang etc for others
3)remove all priveliges, TV books etc. They should be soo tired at the end of the day all they can do is sleep
REMEMBER Prison is for PUNISHMENT, NOT courses on a future criminal career, lets get away from this namby-pamby liberalistic "poor little criminal had a bad childhood" standpoint and PUNISh them for their crimes...
Military prison on the lines of The Hill would be a start.......
Sheets Tabuer said:
10 Pence Short said:
stuff
Indeed but they should spend the "weeks" working or learning to read and write, an educated man has no need for the state to feed him.It will cost a lot of money and prison spaces, but those who yo-yo through the system won't be put off by austerity in Prison because they end up there through having no seeming alternative. Educate them and equip them to have an alternative and you won't find them yo-yo as often and hopfully not at all.
All very interesting - but what about the fact that there are a large class of people who CHOOSE to be the way they are - they all went to school the same as every one else, they all had the same basic opportunities to learn some life skills while they were there, but they chose to fack around and not learn. They chose not to participate in society, rather to take what they can get and sod everyone else.
So why should we now do even more for them, give them even more chances and opportunities when they have already turned their backs on us, rather than just taking them out of society for their natural born days?
So why should we now do even more for them, give them even more chances and opportunities when they have already turned their backs on us, rather than just taking them out of society for their natural born days?
V88Dicky said:
Can't see what the problem is with introducing 'chain gang' style work for criminals. The US Government makes a lot of money by employing convicts for work on state projects.
We could finally get some new roads, bridges build, and the existing ones resurfaced then.Also isn't there one prison governor who reportedly spends only a few cents a day to feed the prisoners due to them growing their own crop etc?
mondeoman said:
All very interesting - but what about the fact that there are a large class of people who CHOOSE to be the way they are - they all went to school the same as every one else, they all had the same basic opportunities to learn some life skills while they were there, but they chose to fack around and not learn. They chose not to participate in society, rather to take what they can get and sod everyone else.
So why should we now do even more for them, give them even more chances and opportunities when they have already turned their backs on us, rather than just taking them out of society for their natural born days?
Clearly some people have poor up bringings, education and home lives when they grew up. Does that mean we should consign them to the bin of life and accept they have no right to learn or improve?So why should we now do even more for them, give them even more chances and opportunities when they have already turned their backs on us, rather than just taking them out of society for their natural born days?
People are in prison for a whole variety of reasons. One of the biggest problems I saw was the lack of hope andself respect an awful lot of inmates have. They don't believe they are employable because they have no qualifications and struggle to read and write, they don't respect The System or Society because they feel shunned by it and they leave prison expecting to come back. These people need educating and giving skills that allow them to feel helped by The System, included by Society and employable. Then they can leave with at least some hope of being a useful member of society rather than a drain of resources.
It's very easy to make soundbites and stereotypes of prisoners, the truth is much more complicated and inconvenient.
mondeoman said:
...
So why should we now do even more for them, give them even more chances and opportunities when they have already turned their backs on us, rather than just taking them out of society for their natural born days?
Because it creates a better society for us and means we pay less taxes in the long run.So why should we now do even more for them, give them even more chances and opportunities when they have already turned their backs on us, rather than just taking them out of society for their natural born days?
Lot of us are saying prison isn't feasible because it's too expensive etc etc but instead of cutting prison numbers how about we try and slash the costs?
Use some of our naval ships which we cannot afford to maintain and convert them into prison ships, build prisons in our overseas territories etc.
Use some of our naval ships which we cannot afford to maintain and convert them into prison ships, build prisons in our overseas territories etc.
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