Call to ban scrums in school rugby, on safety grounds.
Discussion
Mojooo said:
BrassMan said:
I thought that scrums were already not used in school rugby. Something to do with neck injuries, should a scrum collapse?
I went to school in the mid/late 90's and we had rugby with scrums, I have to say I wasn't a fan of them and I can see why people might raise this issue - esp as we were forced into doing it!I played on the school rugby team in the same era and when we trained / played it was 'full on' rugby but the rugby played during normal PE was a watered down version without scrum.
PE was a compulsory class and of course that meant you got people that messed around, people that did not want to do it and people that took it personally when they were tackled...it was easier to just water it down.
I agree that better training / supervision would make it safer but the easier route for the schools is to just remove the risky sport completely.
As usual a university professor starts spouting on a subject he knows nothing about. His statistics may be accurate (I have not seen them in full) but he has obviously NO knowledge of what the SRU, RFU and IRB have been doing for the last 20 years. As possibly one of the only, until my recent retirement, qualified internationally active refs supervisors on this site, I can state that provided the schools apply the current IRB/RFU/SRU rulings then the risk of injuries are significantly reduced.
The trouble is that PE teachers usually have to know the Laws of a dozen games, usually scantily, and thus may not have read the applicable regulations.....I do not hesitate to say that many have NEVER read any of the applicable rulings from the IRB/RFU/SRU!
In 1990 NZRFU was changing their rulings on childrens and juniors play, I was involved in quantifying and assessing these rulings (in NZ) for application by the various Unions here in the continent. The same advisory rulings were acted upon by the RFU/SRU/IRB (then just founded) at very short notice. One of these rulings (the crouch, touch, pause, engage) has found its way into rugby internationally now.
The prof is making a typically PC Labourite reaction to a virtually non-existant problem in 2010. And what the professor does not mention is that football injuries are significantly higher (in injury and frequency) than any rugby related injuries, and I have the stats to prove it.
dieted fro spoling
The trouble is that PE teachers usually have to know the Laws of a dozen games, usually scantily, and thus may not have read the applicable regulations.....I do not hesitate to say that many have NEVER read any of the applicable rulings from the IRB/RFU/SRU!
In 1990 NZRFU was changing their rulings on childrens and juniors play, I was involved in quantifying and assessing these rulings (in NZ) for application by the various Unions here in the continent. The same advisory rulings were acted upon by the RFU/SRU/IRB (then just founded) at very short notice. One of these rulings (the crouch, touch, pause, engage) has found its way into rugby internationally now.
The prof is making a typically PC Labourite reaction to a virtually non-existant problem in 2010. And what the professor does not mention is that football injuries are significantly higher (in injury and frequency) than any rugby related injuries, and I have the stats to prove it.
dieted fro spoling
Edited by JMGS4 on Monday 5th July 07:41
Nick_F said:
grumbledoak said:
I think there is a good case for playing 'touch' rugby when they are young. It would get more kids involved.
But I wouldn't agree with changing the game past 14 years old, we just need better coaching and referreeing to reduce the risks.
RFU insists on touch up to the age of 9; but (private) schools can do as they see fit, they're not RFU endorsed or RFU insured.But I wouldn't agree with changing the game past 14 years old, we just need better coaching and referreeing to reduce the risks.
BrassMan said:
I thought that scrums were already not used in school rugby. Something to do with neck injuries, should a scrum collapse?
I'm suprised they're still used myself. I certainly remember a few* cases where schoolboys were crippled after sustaining neck injuries due to collapsing scrums.- could have just been one, of course.
BOR said:
BrassMan said:
I thought that scrums were already not used in school rugby. Something to do with neck injuries, should a scrum collapse?
I'm suprised they're still used myself. I certainly remember a few* cases where schoolboys were crippled after sustaining neck injuries due to collapsing scrums.- could have just been one, of course.
Einion Yrth said:
BOR said:
BrassMan said:
I thought that scrums were already not used in school rugby. Something to do with neck injuries, should a scrum collapse?
I'm suprised they're still used myself. I certainly remember a few* cases where schoolboys were crippled after sustaining neck injuries due to collapsing scrums.- could have just been one, of course.
pugwash4x4 said:
Einion Yrth said:
BOR said:
BrassMan said:
I thought that scrums were already not used in school rugby. Something to do with neck injuries, should a scrum collapse?
I'm suprised they're still used myself. I certainly remember a few* cases where schoolboys were crippled after sustaining neck injuries due to collapsing scrums.- could have just been one, of course.
Like guns and dangerous dogs - it's sadly often just easier to ban them than sort out the root cause of the problem.
Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 5th July 09:37
Rugby is a great sport for schools, it would be a shame to water it down. One of the reasons it is a great sport for schools is that it requires different shapes and sizes of player for different roles in the team - adults are all sorts of shapes and sizes, too, but the differences are magnified when some kids have started shooting up like beanpoles. The scrum is one of the parts of the game which particularly requires that variation.
Raises an interesting observation for me this thread.
Most schools force kids to play Rugby. Especially in Wales. Most of the kids I went to school with had little interest in Rugby, and didnt want to play this sport. Yet for the glory of the PE teacher, the school, the area and the country, many were forced to play this sport.
So, the question is, why? Its not a particulary good game for promoting fitness, causes many injuries, and most of the participants dont want to do it. So how come schools (especially regionally) are allowed to force kids into doing it? You see most professional rugby players with game related injuries and disfigerments, and most successful careers seem to end in injuries. Look at Gavin Henson, not exactly 'old', yet his list of injuries reads like a road accident victim. He'll probably end up long term disabled from his injuries to some extent. ANd he's represents the 0.00002% that made a career from being forced into playing Rugby as a child.
I went to school in the 70's and 80's in Wales, and you palyed rugby throughout the winter. I'd say less than 20% of the kids would have choosen to do it. ANd it was at times quite brutal. THe school produced several International class players over the decades, and the sport was good to them. Most of the other kids however were just the unwilling tackle fodder. Ask the kids and the majority dont want to play this sport. So what is the justification for playing it?
Most schools force kids to play Rugby. Especially in Wales. Most of the kids I went to school with had little interest in Rugby, and didnt want to play this sport. Yet for the glory of the PE teacher, the school, the area and the country, many were forced to play this sport.
So, the question is, why? Its not a particulary good game for promoting fitness, causes many injuries, and most of the participants dont want to do it. So how come schools (especially regionally) are allowed to force kids into doing it? You see most professional rugby players with game related injuries and disfigerments, and most successful careers seem to end in injuries. Look at Gavin Henson, not exactly 'old', yet his list of injuries reads like a road accident victim. He'll probably end up long term disabled from his injuries to some extent. ANd he's represents the 0.00002% that made a career from being forced into playing Rugby as a child.
I went to school in the 70's and 80's in Wales, and you palyed rugby throughout the winter. I'd say less than 20% of the kids would have choosen to do it. ANd it was at times quite brutal. THe school produced several International class players over the decades, and the sport was good to them. Most of the other kids however were just the unwilling tackle fodder. Ask the kids and the majority dont want to play this sport. So what is the justification for playing it?
Corsair7 said:
Raises an interesting observation for me this thread.
Most schools force kids to play Rugby. Especially in Wales. Most of the kids I went to school with had little interest in Rugby, and didnt want to play this sport. Yet for the glory of the PE teacher, the school, the area and the country, many were forced to play this sport.
So, the question is, why? Its not a particulary good game for promoting fitness, causes many injuries, and most of the participants dont want to do it. So how come schools (especially regionally) are allowed to force kids into doing it? You see most professional rugby players with game related injuries and disfigerments, and most successful careers seem to end in injuries. Look at Gavin Henson, not exactly 'old', yet his list of injuries reads like a road accident victim. He'll probably end up long term disabled from his injuries to some extent. ANd he's represents the 0.00002% that made a career from being forced into playing Rugby as a child.
I went to school in the 70's and 80's in Wales, and you palyed rugby throughout the winter. I'd say less than 20% of the kids would have choosen to do it. ANd it was at times quite brutal. THe school produced several International class players over the decades, and the sport was good to them. Most of the other kids however were just the unwilling tackle fodder. Ask the kids and the majority dont want to play this sport. So what is the justification for playing it?
Just to a pick up on a few of your points.Most schools force kids to play Rugby. Especially in Wales. Most of the kids I went to school with had little interest in Rugby, and didnt want to play this sport. Yet for the glory of the PE teacher, the school, the area and the country, many were forced to play this sport.
So, the question is, why? Its not a particulary good game for promoting fitness, causes many injuries, and most of the participants dont want to do it. So how come schools (especially regionally) are allowed to force kids into doing it? You see most professional rugby players with game related injuries and disfigerments, and most successful careers seem to end in injuries. Look at Gavin Henson, not exactly 'old', yet his list of injuries reads like a road accident victim. He'll probably end up long term disabled from his injuries to some extent. ANd he's represents the 0.00002% that made a career from being forced into playing Rugby as a child.
I went to school in the 70's and 80's in Wales, and you palyed rugby throughout the winter. I'd say less than 20% of the kids would have choosen to do it. ANd it was at times quite brutal. THe school produced several International class players over the decades, and the sport was good to them. Most of the other kids however were just the unwilling tackle fodder. Ask the kids and the majority dont want to play this sport. So what is the justification for playing it?
1) "Not particularly good at promoting fitness?" Have you played rugby recently? in fact forget recently as through out the history of the game fitness was/is the corner stone of the game.
2) On the flip side, why in towns such as Newcastle is football foisted upon kids? How many are injured through reckless tacles?
3) How may kids would actually play any sport at all given the choice?
Edited by Bosshogg76 on Monday 5th July 10:04
Corsair7 said:
Raises an interesting observation for me this thread.
Most schools force kids to play Rugby. Especially in Wales. Most of the kids I went to school with had little interest in Rugby, and didnt want to play this sport. Yet for the glory of the PE teacher, the school, the area and the country, many were forced to play this sport.
So, the question is, why? Its not a particulary good game for promoting fitness, causes many injuries, and most of the participants dont want to do it. So how come schools (especially regionally) are allowed to force kids into doing it? You see most professional rugby players with game related injuries and disfigerments, and most successful careers seem to end in injuries. Look at Gavin Henson, not exactly 'old', yet his list of injuries reads like a road accident victim. He'll probably end up long term disabled from his injuries to some extent. ANd he's represents the 0.00002% that made a career from being forced into playing Rugby as a child.
I went to school in the 70's and 80's in Wales, and you palyed rugby throughout the winter. I'd say less than 20% of the kids would have choosen to do it. ANd it was at times quite brutal. THe school produced several International class players over the decades, and the sport was good to them. Most of the other kids however were just the unwilling tackle fodder. Ask the kids and the majority dont want to play this sport. So what is the justification for playing it?
So that they man the fMost schools force kids to play Rugby. Especially in Wales. Most of the kids I went to school with had little interest in Rugby, and didnt want to play this sport. Yet for the glory of the PE teacher, the school, the area and the country, many were forced to play this sport.
So, the question is, why? Its not a particulary good game for promoting fitness, causes many injuries, and most of the participants dont want to do it. So how come schools (especially regionally) are allowed to force kids into doing it? You see most professional rugby players with game related injuries and disfigerments, and most successful careers seem to end in injuries. Look at Gavin Henson, not exactly 'old', yet his list of injuries reads like a road accident victim. He'll probably end up long term disabled from his injuries to some extent. ANd he's represents the 0.00002% that made a career from being forced into playing Rugby as a child.
I went to school in the 70's and 80's in Wales, and you palyed rugby throughout the winter. I'd say less than 20% of the kids would have choosen to do it. ANd it was at times quite brutal. THe school produced several International class players over the decades, and the sport was good to them. Most of the other kids however were just the unwilling tackle fodder. Ask the kids and the majority dont want to play this sport. So what is the justification for playing it?
k up and stop being gobby little pissants.HundredthIdiot said:
otolith said:
Lots of kids are forced to play other sports they don't like - including football. That's life.
That shít put me off sport for over a decade.It's no wonder that the country is full of fat people.
Trying to find a sport that is going to be of interest to the majority of a class of pupils, must be a nightmare.
Bosshogg76 said:
Corsair7 said:
Raises an interesting observation for me this thread.
Most schools force kids to play Rugby. Especially in Wales. Most of the kids I went to school with had little interest in Rugby, and didnt want to play this sport. Yet for the glory of the PE teacher, the school, the area and the country, many were forced to play this sport.
So, the question is, why? Its not a particulary good game for promoting fitness, causes many injuries, and most of the participants dont want to do it. So how come schools (especially regionally) are allowed to force kids into doing it? You see most professional rugby players with game related injuries and disfigerments, and most successful careers seem to end in injuries. Look at Gavin Henson, not exactly 'old', yet his list of injuries reads like a road accident victim. He'll probably end up long term disabled from his injuries to some extent. ANd he's represents the 0.00002% that made a career from being forced into playing Rugby as a child.
I went to school in the 70's and 80's in Wales, and you palyed rugby throughout the winter. I'd say less than 20% of the kids would have choosen to do it. ANd it was at times quite brutal. THe school produced several International class players over the decades, and the sport was good to them. Most of the other kids however were just the unwilling tackle fodder. Ask the kids and the majority dont want to play this sport. So what is the justification for playing it?
Just to a pick up on a few of your points.Most schools force kids to play Rugby. Especially in Wales. Most of the kids I went to school with had little interest in Rugby, and didnt want to play this sport. Yet for the glory of the PE teacher, the school, the area and the country, many were forced to play this sport.
So, the question is, why? Its not a particulary good game for promoting fitness, causes many injuries, and most of the participants dont want to do it. So how come schools (especially regionally) are allowed to force kids into doing it? You see most professional rugby players with game related injuries and disfigerments, and most successful careers seem to end in injuries. Look at Gavin Henson, not exactly 'old', yet his list of injuries reads like a road accident victim. He'll probably end up long term disabled from his injuries to some extent. ANd he's represents the 0.00002% that made a career from being forced into playing Rugby as a child.
I went to school in the 70's and 80's in Wales, and you palyed rugby throughout the winter. I'd say less than 20% of the kids would have choosen to do it. ANd it was at times quite brutal. THe school produced several International class players over the decades, and the sport was good to them. Most of the other kids however were just the unwilling tackle fodder. Ask the kids and the majority dont want to play this sport. So what is the justification for playing it?
1) "Not particularly good at promoting fitness?" Have you played rugby recently? in fact forget recently as through out the history of the game fitness was/is the corner stone of the game.
2) On the flip side, why in towns such as Newcastle is football foisted upon kids? How many are injured through reckless tacles?
3) How may kids would actually play any sport at all given the choice?
Edited by Bosshogg76 on Monday 5th July 10:04
Rugby good for fitness? Umm, no, disagree. Its the otherway around, isnt it? You have to be very fit to play rugby. The fitness comes first, then the game. You dont get fit playing rugby, you get fit to play rugby. You get fit hitting the road running, build strength down the gym. Rugby players dont get fit playing the game, the practice games sharpen the skills and tactics. If theywant to work on the strength and fitness they do other things. If you want to get a bunch of school kids fit AND healthy, would you choose to take them ont he Rugby pitch to achieve this? Or would it be better to get them doing gym classes, areobics and such like? I was in the military 12 years, and the fitness coaches NEVER used a sport like Rugby as a method of getting fit. Indeed, I'd say that theres a distinct risk in playing Rugby if you're not already very fit.
Long term fitness? Yes, as my example, long term, rugby players invariably end up with long term injuries. Back and shoulder injuries are common place. If you are front row, you can expect facial deformaties, teeth missing, cauliflower ears. If you're one of the 'poofters' in the backs, you're career will likly be ended by ligament damage to the knees or ankles caused by tackles.
I'm not anti rugby, I enjoyed playing it myself, and enjoy it over football as a spectator sport. But it isn't an ideal sport for geting people fit. If you've got fat, unfit school kids and you take them to play rugby as a their weekely two hour PE lesson, then you're quite frankly incompetant at your job.
Diderot said:
ellroy said:
Diderot said:
It is a stupid game; ball isn't spherical, you can only pass backwards and you get points for kicking it over the crossbar. Invented by sadistic fkwits with cauliflower ears and broken noses.
You're a footballist aren't you? Is your name Darren?kwits with cauliflower ears and broken noses. Edited by Diderot on Sunday 4th July 22:38
grumbledoak said:
I think there is a good case for playing 'touch' rugby when they are young. It would get more kids involved.
But I wouldn't agree with changing the game past 14 years old, we just need better coaching and referreeing to reduce the risks.
Couldn't have put it better myself...But I wouldn't agree with changing the game past 14 years old, we just need better coaching and referreeing to reduce the risks.
Bosshogg76 said:
HundredthIdiot said:
otolith said:
Lots of kids are forced to play other sports they don't like - including football. That's life.
That shít put me off sport for over a decade.It's no wonder that the country is full of fat people.
Trying to find a sport that is going to be of interest to the majority of a class of pupils, must be a nightmare.
Our PE teacher was a "faces in the mud" rugby type. I remember those winter sessions with no fondness at all.
Whilst I'm no fan of taking out the fun and excitement by watering down sports, I do think that the most important aspect of school sports is to leave the kids with a sense of achievement and positive outlook towards physical exercise that will give them a good chance of maintaining a healthy lifestyle in the longer term.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff