N. Korea - will they , or won't they?
Discussion
Castrol Craig said:
superkartracer said:
Frankeh said:
NK fires at the south using its s
tty artillery.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.9b44fd30ac49d58176d74d2962680917.101tty artillery. Two hours to flatten the place, yes they can't win but they could certainly do some serious damage.
given the 30 minutes they would hae before the US flattened them with air strikes, id say they wouldnt be able to flatten the place.
The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
Ordinary_Chap said:
I'd disagree.
The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
I think you are giving far too much credit to NK's military capability. I believe that they have two forms of defence, the artillery and nuclear. Their air force looks more like a working military museum than a modern day deterrent.The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
MX7 said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
I'd disagree.
The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
I think you are giving far too much credit to NK's military capability. I believe that they have two forms of defence, the artillery and nuclear. Their air force looks more like a working military museum than a modern day deterrent.The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
Whilst the equipment isn't modern, although hardly museum pieces either, there's plenty of it including anti-air defences (missiles/artillery).
Also their forces have more than 2 forms of defence. Their army for instance is 1 million + strong (they have the 5th largest army in the world).
They are very well organised, very willing and have huge amounts of fire power. Any country attacking them will suffer.
Ordinary_Chap said:
You should read up on it.
Whilst the equipment isn't modern, although hardly museum pieces either, there's plenty of it including anti-air defences (missiles/artillery).
I have, and I was talking about their air force, which really is fairly archaic. Whilst the equipment isn't modern, although hardly museum pieces either, there's plenty of it including anti-air defences (missiles/artillery).
Ordinary_Chap said:
Also their forces have more than 2 forms of defence. Their army for instance is 1 million + strong (they have the 5th largest army in the world).
They are very well organised, very willing and have huge amounts of fire power. Any country attacking them will suffer.
They have conscription, so by it's nature it's going to be massive. That doesn't mean that it's necessarily well equipped or well trained. They are very well organised, very willing and have huge amounts of fire power. Any country attacking them will suffer.
Although you claim that they would be very willing, I think that could be one of their biggest downfalls. Korea was one country not so long ago, and I believe that there's still an affinity there today. SK even has a Ministry of Unification. Given a week or two of conflict, and I think we would see a capitulation of under equipped, undernourished troops, isolated from their higher command, which is the biggest concern as Kim will have little to lose, and a big red button.
Castrol Craig said:
superkartracer said:
Frankeh said:
NK fires at the south using its stty artillery.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.9b44fd30ac49d58176d74d2962680917.101tty artillery. Two hours to flatten the place, yes they can't win but they could certainly do some serious damage.
given the 30 minutes they would hae before the US flattened them with air strikes, id say they wouldnt be able to flatten the place.
So you think 13000 guns buried into rock and steel could be removed in 30mins?
13000 guns only have to fire once.
MX7 said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
You should read up on it.
Whilst the equipment isn't modern, although hardly museum pieces either, there's plenty of it including anti-air defences (missiles/artillery).
I have, and I was talking about their air force, which really is fairly archaic. Whilst the equipment isn't modern, although hardly museum pieces either, there's plenty of it including anti-air defences (missiles/artillery).
Ordinary_Chap said:
Also their forces have more than 2 forms of defence. Their army for instance is 1 million + strong (they have the 5th largest army in the world).
They are very well organised, very willing and have huge amounts of fire power. Any country attacking them will suffer.
They have conscription, so by it's nature it's going to be massive. That doesn't mean that it's necessarily well equipped or well trained. They are very well organised, very willing and have huge amounts of fire power. Any country attacking them will suffer.
Although you claim that they would be very willing, I think that could be one of their biggest downfalls. Korea was one country not so long ago, and I believe that there's still an affinity there today. SK even has a Ministry of Unification. Given a week or two of conflict, and I think we would see a capitulation of under equipped, undernourished troops, isolated from their higher command, which is the biggest concern as Kim will have little to lose, and a big red button.
We will have to agree to disagree.
http://www.newsofap.com/newsofap-4222-26-north-kor...
At the end of the day these poor people need help, so fingers crossed he does push too far!
At the end of the day these poor people need help, so fingers crossed he does push too far!
The real Apache said:
Kim Il has threatened to do this nearly as often as Mungo threatened to leave PH.
Think about it, what would he possibly gain from lobbing a nuke? and more to the point look at what he'd lose.
unless he has gone completely mad of course, then all the bets are off
Are there still questions over his ill health? Maybe he wants to go out with a bang and doesn't care who goes with him?Think about it, what would he possibly gain from lobbing a nuke? and more to the point look at what he'd lose.
unless he has gone completely mad of course, then all the bets are off
Tsippy said:
A threat to China is the rise of companies in Eastern Europe (places such as Hungary and Slovakia) where they are getting the benefit of European engineers plus reduced transport costs. I don't think it would be too hard to move production away from China though, as eventhough the workforce is in a manufacturing plant, they are mostly unskilled labour and something that's not in short supply in Eastern Europe.
That is an interesting point.Ordinary_Chap said:
MX7 said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
I'd disagree.
The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
I think you are giving far too much credit to NK's military capability. I believe that they have two forms of defence, the artillery and nuclear. Their air force looks more like a working military museum than a modern day deterrent.The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
Whilst the equipment isn't modern, although hardly museum pieces either, there's plenty of it including anti-air defences (missiles/artillery).
Also their forces have more than 2 forms of defence. Their army for instance is 1 million + strong (they have the 5th largest army in the world).
They are very well organised, very willing and have huge amounts of fire power. Any country attacking them will suffer.
Ordinary_Chap said:
They are very well organised, very willing and have huge amounts of fire power. Any country attacking them will suffer.
Please forgive a late entry.People in NK are starving to death. It doesn't matter how many men they have in the army. Add a war, and a couple of months, and the army would be starving too.
Ordinary_Chap said:
MX7 said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
I'd disagree.
The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
I think you are giving far too much credit to NK's military capability. I believe that they have two forms of defence, the artillery and nuclear. Their air force looks more like a working military museum than a modern day deterrent.The USA can't just waltz in and destroy everything, this isn't Iraq, they are well organised and are well known for having large air defences with jets/missiles/AA guns.
Sure the USA could beat them but not before they'd inflict huge casualties on the US.
As for the Artillery, well even if they aren't great at accuracy, it doesn't matter one bit when you're firing into such a densely populated area. They would inflict massive losses and they do have all of the logistics and trained personnel to keep the guns going.
Whilst the equipment isn't modern, although hardly museum pieces either, there's plenty of it including anti-air defences (missiles/artillery).
Also their forces have more than 2 forms of defence. Their army for instance is 1 million + strong (they have the 5th largest army in the world).
They are very well organised, very willing and have huge amounts of fire power. Any country attacking them will suffer.
1million troops, lots of air defence, willing troops, hundreds of modernish tanks, modernish warfare etc etc
After 3 weeks of targeted bombing taking out just about every command and control centre, saw the whole army rolled up in days- tens of thousands killed and hundreds of thousands taken captive.
its vrey difficult to beat stealth bombers, 5,000 special forces troops, tonnes of guided munitions dropped from 60kfeet, and thousands of cruise missiles.
Massive air defenses work when you are attacked by aircraft. Remote launched cruise missiles, etc can easily penetrate air defences and destroy many, not nearly all, but many of these defences. Far more importantly is that the communications networks that link those defences back to their leadership will be targeted right out of the gate. Being cutoff and not having the benefit of tactical intel, the NK middle level commanders will not be able to deploy their weapons effectively or adjust as initiative is not encouraged in dictatorial armies.
Tsippy said:
The real Apache said:
Kim Il has threatened to do this nearly as often as Mungo threatened to leave PH.
Think about it, what would he possibly gain from lobbing a nuke? and more to the point look at what he'd lose.
unless he has gone completely mad of course, then all the bets are off
Are there still questions over his ill health? Maybe he wants to go out with a bang and doesn't care who goes with him?Think about it, what would he possibly gain from lobbing a nuke? and more to the point look at what he'd lose.
unless he has gone completely mad of course, then all the bets are off
Tsippy said:
The real Apache said:
Kim Il has threatened to do this nearly as often as Mungo threatened to leave PH.
Think about it, what would he possibly gain from lobbing a nuke? and more to the point look at what he'd lose.
unless he has gone completely mad of course, then all the bets are off
Are there still questions over his ill health? Maybe he wants to go out with a bang and doesn't care who goes with him?Think about it, what would he possibly gain from lobbing a nuke? and more to the point look at what he'd lose.
unless he has gone completely mad of course, then all the bets are off
Jimbeaux said:
Massive air defenses work when you are attacked by aircraft. Remote launched cruise missiles, etc can easily penetrate air defences and destroy many, not nearly all, but many of these defences. Far more importantly is that the communications networks that link those defences back to their leadership will be targeted right out of the gate. Being cutoff and not having the benefit of tactical intel, the NK middle level commanders will not be able to deploy their weapons effectively or adjust as initiative is not encouraged in dictatorial armies.
I think that you are correct in saying initiative is not encouraged, however a indoctrinated army has no need of it, all they have to do is keep firing the arty until they are killed or run out of shells.As for even contemplating a ground assault it ranks up there with the invasion plans for the Japanese Mainland in WW2 as a one way ticket for 10, if not 100's of thousands.
pugwash4x4 said:
I agree with the sentiments but compare this to the first gulf war
1million troops, lots of air defence, willing troops, hundreds of modern-ish tanks, modern-ish warfare etc etc
After 3 weeks of targeted bombing taking out just about every command and control centre, saw the whole army rolled up in days- tens of thousands killed and hundreds of thousands taken captive.
its very difficult to beat stealth bombers, 5,000 special forces troops, tonnes of guided munitions dropped from 60kfeet, and thousands of cruise missiles.
All true, but it takes time to organise that sort of thing. In Gulf 1, Saddam had moved and stopped, giving away the initiative to a superior force.1million troops, lots of air defence, willing troops, hundreds of modern-ish tanks, modern-ish warfare etc etc
After 3 weeks of targeted bombing taking out just about every command and control centre, saw the whole army rolled up in days- tens of thousands killed and hundreds of thousands taken captive.
its very difficult to beat stealth bombers, 5,000 special forces troops, tonnes of guided munitions dropped from 60kfeet, and thousands of cruise missiles.
Unless the cruise missiles are in the area on the day they won't do a whole lot of good. Given the state that NK is supposed to in, I would expect it to fold fairly quickly, but that won't do the people in the way much good.
Where was I? Oh yeah, NK would be crazy to do more than posture, but I'd expect SK to have a hefty body count before they were stopped.
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