Wasn't really such a great idea, was it?

[groak]

tamore said:

groak, what exactly would you like to have seen happen within 12 weeks of new government?

For example? I'd like to see the first shoots of positive change by a party which has had 12 years of opposition and 3 years of watching a mess to form alternative improved directions to lead us and the economy in. I don't think that's unreasonable. What otherwise is the point of the change?

[groak]

5unny said:

groak said:

Last time I voted was 1970.

As you might expect, as someone who couldn't care less which party's in governance I don't find it hard to be objective.

After only a few weeks of ConDem it's kind of just beginning to be apparent that there wasn't really much point in getting quite excited about something "new".

Ok. That's putting it tactfully.

Reality: This lot are worse, and sillier, than the last lot. You can almost smell government-inspired disaster on the way.

Hope I'm wrong.

What have they done in the past couple of months to make you say this lot are worse?

And given you haven't voted since 1970 you've missed Wilson vs Heath, Thatcher vs Callaghan, Thatcher vs Foot, Thatcher vs Kinnock, Major vs Kinnock, Blair vs Major/Hague/Howard and the election just gone.

Did you not see any differences at all between the aforementioned candidates and their governments? If you did see a difference then why did you not care to vote?

Well whilst there may be an overmanned, overwieldy and over expensive public sector, creating massive redundancy from it is much more dangerous to the economy than creating some much more productive alternative for these workers to do. And so far there appears much talk of redundancy but none of job alternatives.

Then there's the recent radical benefit shifts which don't appear to be any more than trumpeting the "discovery" of systematic failure which everyone has known about for decades. We all KNOW there's a huge disincentivisation in trying to motivate a person who lives in poverty on benefits to live in even WORSE poverty in bottom-level work. But identifying that as a problem isn't solving it.

Then there's this week's CMD visit to India. India and Pakistan have a very fragile relationship and in some ways a potentially very dangerous co-existence. Pouring petrol on this fire isn't even slightly clever. Big city Hindu-Muslim riots and border tension and skirmishing and underlying nuke-growling requires the highest level of diplomacy and tact to handle. Publicly (and to many very unfairly)denigrating Pakistan's attitude to anti-terrorism is a page 1 textbook no-no.

[markcoznottz]

frosted said:

I find it funny that we managed to elect a gov formed multiple millionaires and yet we are looking fwrd to be governed by them

People born into money are far less dangerous than people with chips on thier shoulders who spend thier whole life trying to bring the 'rich' down, whilst secretly wanting to be rich themselves. Take Alistair Darling, markist, trotskyite, a person whose whole fundamental political ethos was redistribution of wealth. Fliped his home several times, thus avoiding capital gains tax. So thats ok then, as long as its not HIS money thats redistributed, just someone elses. Theres nothing worse than a champaigne socialist.

[groak]

markcoznottz said:

frosted said:

I find it funny that we managed to elect a gov formed multiple millionaires and yet we are looking fwrd to be governed by them

People born into money are far less dangerous than people with chips on thier shoulders who spend thier whole life trying to bring the 'rich' down, whilst secretly wanting to be rich themselves. Take Alistair Darling, markist, trotskyite, a person whose whole fundamental political ethos was redistribution of wealth. Fliped his home several times, thus avoiding capital gains tax. So thats ok then, as long as its not HIS money thats redistributed, just someone elses. Theres nothing worse than a champaigne socialist.

Well assuming we've now empowered some leaders blessed with economic nous (tho' I don't for one moment agree that they have) are they going to use it to guide us from the economic wilderness back to the land of promise and prosperity ? C'mon! They're surely not going to deliberately withhold this ability from us are they?

Y'see I think regarding Resolving the Mess they are at LEAST as gormless as Gordo etc and possibly even worse.

It's one of these things I'd like to be wrong about, but my gut instinct is I'm not.

[frosted]

Cmon , you can't be serious !

Anyway , let's see who will elect conservatives again when they will move 20000 people on benefits in the more rural areas of the SE

Which obviously they haven't put much thought into

[andywaterfall]

groak said:

Last time I graced the rugby field was 1970.....

eldar said:

Trouble is makes you look like a apathetic winger.

He didn't even say which position he played in.

[eldar]

groak said:

eldar said:

groak said:

So you think people who don't vote avoid it because they're too lazy, do you? And you've somehow formed the opinion that "spoiling the ballot" is a more noble option to withholding that vote, haven't you? But then, you find it fascinating that someone who doesn't vote should post on an internet forum when what's far more fascinating is how you come to link voting and forum-posting in the first place. Could I ask you again, do you feel no-one should opinionate on ANYTHING in which they don't participate, or is this bizarre notion confined only to things political? Could I THEN ask you to post a reply to the original post (without digressing into curious ideas of what people should or shouldn't have the right to think and opinionate about).

You voted neither for nor against the government. That indicates to me that you aren't too bothered who wins or loses. Yet you complain about the result that you could have influenced in some small way.

You do of course have that right, no problem. Trouble is makes you look like a apathetic winger.

Okay. So what do YOU think. You're right, I'm NOT bothered. But you're wrong, I'm neither complaining about the result nor whingeing. What I AM saying is that, so far, there appears to be the seed-sowing of even worse than what the last lot achieved.

Ok, it's PH, and there's a pretty universal crackpot notion that somehow Brown etc caused All The Ills Of The World. He didn't. But there IS a mess. And regardless of The Blame For The Mess, there is the issue of its resolve. It does not so far appear that any new direction has arrived along with ConDem governance which has anything resolutory to offer. In fact it's got the uneasy feeling of the opposite. Am I wrong?

Labour were excellent at spending money, and terrible at managing it. Their replacements would appear to be better at managing it, so far. Time will tell if this is the case, or just slight of hand.

[Futuo]

groak said:

Reality: This lot are worse, and sillier, than the last lot. You can almost smell government-inspired disaster on the way.

Hope I'm wrong.

Not possible

and yes you are.

[groak]

andywaterfall said:

groak said:

Last time I graced the rugby field was 1970.....

eldar said:

Trouble is makes you look like a apathetic winger.

He didn't even say which position he played in.

Hooker (no cheap jokes please)

[markcoznottz]

groak said:

markcoznottz said:

frosted said:

I find it funny that we managed to elect a gov formed multiple millionaires and yet we are looking fwrd to be governed by them

People born into money are far less dangerous than people with chips on thier shoulders who spend thier whole life trying to bring the 'rich' down, whilst secretly wanting to be rich themselves. Take Alistair Darling, markist, trotskyite, a person whose whole fundamental political ethos was redistribution of wealth. Fliped his home several times, thus avoiding capital gains tax. So thats ok then, as long as its not HIS money thats redistributed, just someone elses. Theres nothing worse than a champaigne socialist.

Well assuming we've now empowered some leaders blessed with economic nous (tho' I don't for one moment agree that they have) are they going to use it to guide us from the economic wilderness back to the land of promise and prosperity ? C'mon! They're surely not going to deliberately withhold this ability from us are they?

Cameron and co come from such rarified stock they are almost caricatures of themselves.

Y'see I think regarding Resolving the Mess they are at LEAST as gormless as Gordo etc and possibly even worse.

It's one of these things I'd like to be wrong about, but my gut instinct is I'm not.

Cameron and co come from such rarified stock they are almost caricatures of themselves. I think most

would struggle to relate to thier backgrounds. Something which Thatch and major didnt suffer from.

Cameron to me seems worried about offending people, he has to realise we dont give a monkeys about his

legacy or other nonsense like that, or social conscience or green crap. Just show us the fking money.

OUR MONEY. let us keep more, no more reports/reviews, etc, do it now, not in 2 years time, parliament is

breaking up soon, another lost load of time, just get on with it.

[Futuo]

markcoznottz said:

Cameron to me seems worried about offending people,

Pakistan??

And he's spot on, why should we accept them harbouring terrorists?

[Jasandjules]

groak said:

Reality: This lot are worse, and sillier, than the last lot.

Hope I'm wrong.

You could not be much more wrong.

BTW, it's a shame that you are out of the Asylum Mr Brown.

[Fittster]

Futuo said:

markcoznottz said:

Cameron to me seems worried about offending people,

Pakistan??

And he's spot on, why should we accept them harbouring terrorists?

UK harbours lots of terrorist that other states would like to speak to.

Pakistan isn't a perfect ally but do you want to push them further away?

[Gun]

I find it hard to believe that CMD has performed worse it the last 12 weeks than Labour did in the last 12 years.

[Jim the Sunderer]

frosted said:

I find it funny that we managed to elect a gov formed multiple millionaires and yet we are looking fwrd to be governed by them

Let's vote for Burmese peasants then.

• I harbour no ill feelings about the Burma people.

Edited by Jim the Sunderer on Saturday 31st July 19:58

[Gun]

frosted said:

I find it funny that we managed to elect a gov formed multiple millionaires and yet we are looking fwrd to be governed by them

What's that got to do with anything?

[otolith]

groak said:

tamore said:

groak, what exactly would you like to have seen happen within 12 weeks of new government?

For example? I'd like to see the first shoots of positive change by a party which has had 12 years of opposition and 3 years of watching a mess to form alternative improved directions to lead us and the economy in. I don't think that's unreasonable. What otherwise is the point of the change?

Bit vague - any more specific ideas?

If you were hoping the new government would wave a magic wand and fix everything with no pain, you will be disappointed. There is no quick and easy escape from the hole that Gordon has dug - all they can do is stop digging and encourage us to work our way out. It's going to be a long and difficult journey, and a lot of people are going to have a thoroughly miserable time of it. I expect that it won't be long before the cause of the illness is forgotten and those administering the medicine start to be blamed for its unpleasantness.

There is a limit to how quickly radical change can be made - for instance, you seem to be frightened of the knock on effects of immediately cutting the size of the public sector.

[markcoznottz]

Gun said:

I find it hard to believe that CMD has performed worse it the last 12 weeks than Labour did in the last 12 years.

He hasnt. Just needs to play to his audience more. lets have a list of all the useless quangoes labour set up, every one of them, and lets see a timetable of when they will be quoshed. We shouldnt have to rely on the papers for this information. lets have a bit more anti labour sentiment coming out, not spin, just spiteful stuff. They made our lives a misery, give it back!. Tell us exactly, why and how and when EU legislation affects us. Its not bloody hard is it, apparantly 100s of civil servants sit idley about, get them on this stuff, all this should be available from OUR government, online for free. If he doesnt pull his finger out his arse he will consign the tories to extinction. After all, if they are just a pale version of labour, might as well vote labour.

[tybo]

The voting system only exists to make us think we live in a democracy.

All policies that matter has been planned well in advance, irrespective of who is in power at the time - those policies will be implemented.

[Dave Angel]

groak said:

andywaterfall said:

groak said:

Last time I graced the rugby field was 1970.....

eldar said:

Trouble is makes you look like a apathetic winger.

He didn't even say which position he played in.

Hooker (no cheap jokes please)

Your name is Mavis, it was Kevin and you played for Wigan AICMFP.